Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf
Some good points there, (in particular child benefits, which really ought to be paid at a level commensurate with the standard of living in the country where the child lives) but it seems we are (once again) conflating legal migrants, illegal migrants and asylum seekers which all have differing rights (or lack thereof). Anyway, in a nutshell: These forums are awash with posts from people claiming that the UK is a soft touch where every tom, dick and harry can show up and we'll just throw money at them, when the reality is that the benefits system in the UK is pretty basic compared to many countries in continental Europe (as are, I should add the majority of public services). If things were bad economically in my home country, then a life on benefits in the UK definitely wouldn't be my first choice.
What's more, as was linked to earlier, Brits are excessively concerned about immigration compared to European counterparts with higher levels of immigration. Altogether, it's hard to escape the impression of a xenophobic lot of whinging POMs that simply want more for less money. There. I've said it  |
Which is why the other factors (in addition to just cash/quality) I mentioned about the UK are important and will affect the different categories of migrants (e.g. legal, illegal, EU, Non-EU) in different ways. Great services are of no use to migrants if they're not entitled to them or can't access them easily or at all for one reason or another. They're not of much comfort or interest to the vast numbers of illegals seeking somewhere to go if they know stand a very good chance of being rounded up, refused entry and deported quick smart. The UK's thoroughly shambolic immigration system is still open to huge abuse and it's still taking ages, sometimes years, for the authorities to get round to contesting claims and removing people even when multiple appeals have been exhausted etc. This, coupled with the almost certain knowledge that, if they work the system for as long as possible and manage to marry/have a child, even illegal entrants and bogus asylum seekers will not be removed, must be a major factor in the minds of those intent on coming here illegally and remaining.
Rights and entitlements are a big factor. I believe, for example, the widespread and routine availability of free translation/ESOL/help/housing support services etc. is a factor in drawing migrants here. Our Polish neighbour moved to France two years ago with her husband and children - no translation services available for them so, whilst trying to learn French, which she has to pay for, she has to get by on her English which it seems the people she meets strangely aren't too keen on..
She keeps in touch with us and tells us she feels really quite isolated there but of course nobody would ever claim that'd be down to French xenophobia at all.
I think we all know there's a fare amount of racism here but that's the same virtually everywhere and not to be conflated with having genuine reasoned concerns about
mass migration which is after all what we're talking about. Isn't it true that there's plenty of concern about migration in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Holland etc.? I've travelled and worked abroad a fair bit over the last 30 years and it's certainly evident where I've been in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa. According to the many E. Europeans we've known over the years, overt racism (for example against the Roma) is almost endemic and institutional in many places there.
Giving the impression that things in the UK are somehow much worse or harder for migrants than in these other countries (if that's what you're implying) doesn't wash IMHO. If the UK isn't a soft touch and our people and systems are so much more prejudiced than others, why do so many migrants (including large numbers who have no links with the UK and speak no English) go to such extremes to get here (legally or otherwise) and
then choose to stay? If it's so arduous here and so much easier for such people to exist happily in France and elsewhere why are there queues of migrants from all over the place waiting just outside the port of Calais?...
Where you'd wish to go is a matter of your personal choice (plus, of course, the immigration rules effective in that country) but the large numbers who've not only come here but remained over the last 10-15 years don't appear to share your view about the UK being a less desireable destination and home to a 'xenophobic lot of whingeing poms'.