[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

So you explain to me what discipline is?

Discipline is a method of control using a mode of punishment as an incentive. The statement by Gove has very little to do with punishment.

How dare you.I have my own mind on this and I never read the DM...perhaps you have forgotten I'm a secondary school teacher with 36 years of experience and I know full well what the true state of affairs are in schools up and down the country.

I have not directed any post towards you relating to the Daily Heil. If you have misunderstood any of my remarks about that publication, then I apologise.

And you know full well what I meant by physical discipline or restraint.

No, otherwise I would have not asked the question. As I have mentioned earlier, the definition of discipline is about control, incentivised by punishment on non-compliance. That punishment can range from sanctions and prohibitions, to physical punishment. Perhaps you would like to be clear on what you consider physical discipline to mean.

It's people like you who have ruined education and the status of teachers and severely affected the ability of children to learn in a quiet and calm atmosphere because the teacher is in charge by taking away the few ways that we ever had of maintaining control. It takes a very long time to be effective when you have a riot on your hands..Detention has no effect what ever on the disruptive(they don't attend and just go AWOL) and suspension merely deprives a child of an education without teaching them any self control..

People like me? What have I proposed that is done in schools that would hold me up as ruining education and the status of teachers? All I have done is tried to dispel the myths what too many people believe occur in every school in the country. There are no laws banning teachers from restraining children if they are a danger to themselves or others. There are no laws banning teachers consoling children if they are upset. I have not mentioned anything about child protection, nor have I written anything about classroom discipline. I have always supported teachers who have had to use reasonable force to remove disruptive children from classrooms. There are, however, lines that should not be crossed, but that is a subject for a different thread.

In any thread on these boards, which criticises teachers (and there have been many), I have always supported and promoted their perspective. Perhaps you have forgotten that I am actually a qualified SSA with, although fewer years service than you and part-time, about five years practical classroom experience, (although most of those years have been spent in a primary school), I have had limited experience, through training placements etc., in secondary schools. The work I do can and has been on many occasions, very challenging. To the extent where I have had to restrain or remove children in several instances. The first school I worked in was on a very rough estate. About fifty per cent of the children there were on statements and another twenty per cent on school action plus. There was an EBD unit on site and as it only had fifteen permanent places, it was constantly full, to the extent where the rest of those with EBD issues, were left to their own devices and the teachers were at their mercies.

And don't give me any squit about how a teacher should be able to maintain discipline by talking to children in a calm and logical matter.It works for the majority but the small number of disruptive children won't ever respond to that because they haven't been trained by their parents to do so.

I have not discussed classroom discipline on this thread, so I really don't understand why you are referring to it here. This thread is about Gove's rather strange intentions to create something which already exists. It has appeared as though he is just using the subject as a smoke screen, to avoid addressing more important issues, such as school closures, building programme cancellations and budget cuts.