[punky]

Originally Posted by Matt D

The Lib Dems want STV, not AV. We'll find out soon enough (well, hopefully soon enough!) whether the Labour & Tory offers of AV are enough for them.

I can find nothing that says that the Lib Dems want to bring in electoral reform unconditionally, whether the public want it or not, & I find it hard to believe they'd consider wanting to introduce a change such as that without any referendum (given that they want referendums on a proper written constitution; Euro entry (if economically viable to bother in the first place etc. etc.); EU in/out (if a fundamental change is signed up to), etc.).

When the Labour Government proposed its constitutional reform bill to introduce a referendum on the AV system, the Lib Dems tabled amendments to add STV instead of AV.[which were then defeated, before the whole bill later got canned prior to the dissolution of Parliament].

What other references I can find, say the Lib Dems support a referendum on electoral reform, not immediate legislation


Labour have offered immediate legislation to bring in AV, that doesn't mean the Lib Dems don't want a referendum - it is what Labour are offering in hope of bribing them.

And as mentioned earlier in the thread, if a Lib-Lab pact tried to pass a bill to bring in AV without a referendum, it could easily fail anyway. Those who think it would be unfair without a referendum would vote no, while many Labour MPs would vote no alongside Tory MPs simply because Labour hates PR as much as they do.

I'm going by William Hague here who is the only one talking. He said, and I quote:

They've also said to us, the Liberal Democrats have said to the Conservative party, that they are only only prepared to enter into a coalition agreement with a party that will change our electoral system to the Alternative Vote method of voting.

That makes it quite clear. No referendum. Its either introduce it or no coalition. The public's wishes are meaningless here.

Its the Tories that table the referendum vote, quote:

in the interests of trying to create a stable, secure government we will go the extra mile and we will offer to the Liberal Democrats in a coalition government the holding of a referendum on the Alternative Vote system so that the people of this country can decide what the best electoral system is for the future

And goes on to say that the choice lies with the Lib Dems of which there has not been a response yet.

If Hague is being misleading I would have though I would have thought someone would have contradicted him. Noone has so we can take it as truth until we hear otherwise.

Look if this was negotiation about anti-terror laws, ID cards, something that will seriously affect this country then yes it's fair for the Lib Dems to stand firm. The Tories have said on various issues they they have conceded ground as have the Lib Dems. However this is posturing to feather their own nest and has nothing to with the saftey, security or future of this country. This is to make sure that the Lib Dems get a larger share of the seats next time.