[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Several uBNP councillors have been re-elected.
They managed to get two MEPs thanks to PR, chances are, thanks to PR they'll keep their jobs.

And several BNP councillors lost their seats... all 12 in Barking & Dagenham (including Richard Barnbrook).

The PR system used in the European Parliament elections was closed party list, IIRC.

The BNP vote in the two constituencies it gained MEPs wasn't actually higher than it was at the previous election (IIRC it was *lower*) - they won because fewer people in total could be arsed to vote, causing the BNP's share to be higher than before & pass above the threshold.

If the voter turnout is higher next time, they may not get back in.

If people consider they haven't done much of a job, they may not get back in next time.

And if they *do* get back in next time...well, as disgusting as it is IMO that people would vote BNP, that is their *right* to do so, and this is meant to be a Democracy...


Now, you may want to criticise that form of PR which was used in the Euro elections... and tbh I'd share your criticisms. I don't like the list system. But it's not the same form of PR as desired by the Lib Dems: STV.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Or was it that not enough people voted at all? Being as their current excuse is that too many people voted this time around.

Yup. Lower turnout caused the BNP's vote share in the winning constituencies to be higher despite them polling fewer votes.

Originally Posted by Escapee

I see Lib Dems now doing a deal with the party that the majority of the country didn't want any longer.

Well, tbh, with our electoral system & under our (unwritten) constitution, what the majority of the country wants or does not want is fairly irrelevant, given that we do not have a system which is particularly proportional...

I don't know how you feel about FPTP, but I think that no-one who is a fan of FPTP can really, at the same time, also complain that the Tories should be in power, or have a right to be in power, simply because the majority voted against the alternative. It's a bit hypocritical IMO (I'm not saying you are, btw ).

It doesn't matter if more people voted against Labour than for Labour, or against the Tories than for the Tories, etc. The Government is simply formed by the party (or parties, in a coalition) which has a majority in the House of Commons and as such is able to "command the confidence of the House of Commons".

There is nothing that says the Tories should have power due to the results we got, & nothing that says it is wrong for Labour + Lib Dems + Others to form a coalition instead.

It's just the way it is... and is one reason why I think it is unfair (along with that whole "9% of the seats on 23% of the vote" thing , plus of course the ability for one party to win the most seats & form a Govt. while losing the popular vote).

But, whether you see it as fair or unfair, it is the system we are currently stuck with...

Originally Posted by Sirius

So the lib Dem's will now allow a failed party like labour to continue to destroy this country. How can they do that and still hold there heads up. Its makes me so happy i did not vote for the libs.

I didn't realise they had decided anything? Give them a chance to make a decision, perhaps, before you slate them?

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

I wouldn't trust a word that left wing rag has to say. The guardian is a job centre for pointless council jobs.

Read the link. It's a study by the Electoral Reform Society (which has been campaigning for electoral reform since 1884) which has been reported in that left wing rag.

Oh, & it's not just got adverts for pointless council jobs... even the Security Service advertises in the Guardian

Originally Posted by danielf

I'm not sure if AV is going to be good enough.

tbh, it is for me... it is hardly ideal, & as Chris said it isn't actually PR, but I think it is a step in the right direction. I can't see the Lib Dems getting anything better out of the Tories or Labour & I think they should concede that it's a fair compromise for now.

Originally Posted by Chris

John Ried's just gone up in my estimation. He doesn't think a Lib-Lab pact will wash because it will also require bribes to nationalists.

Indeed. I've never liked the man, but he has a point.


Anyway. This Guardian reading lefty Lib Dem member still thinks that the best option is a Lib-Con coalition... A stronger & more stable majority than a "Rainbow Coalition" or "Progressive Alliance", no concessions to nationalist parties, common ground on civil liberties & some other areas, & a referendum on AV. It'll do for me...