[danielf]

Originally Posted by Chris

'Weak and ineffective government' is a self-serving argument offered by those who think that only they can provide strong and effective government. They usually follow it up by giving Italy as an example (almost as many governments as there have been years since 1945), whilst conveniently ignoring Germany, at the opposite end of the scale, which does ok for itself despite having an almost rabid obsession with federalism and consensus in its national and regional politics.

Coalitions have historically failed to last very long in the UK, but in the UK all parties know that they have a fighting chance of getting an outright majority if a coalition fails and an election is called. Hence there is no incentive to stick with it.

Thanks for that. I couldn't have put it better myself. Having lived under PR for most of my life I never understood the weak government argument myself. In fact, I find the idea of one party holding absolute power to push through legislation that the electorate was never consulted on quite scary. Coalition governments ensure that there is a proper cross-party debate on such issues, which is a good thing in my opinion.

I have no desire to see fringe loons holding the country to ransom but the fact is, the British electorate has fragmented and opted to support a wider range of parties despite the fact that the electoral system can't deliver on their choices. In my view, there simply isn't an argument to be had any more. The electorate has already demonstrated that it is no longer interested in the two-party system.

I think Cameron is canny enough to recognise this (and to recognise that there is going to be a referendum on PR if Clegg gets into bed with Labour instead of with him) and genuinely wants to grasp the nettle and at least see if he can devise a PR system that won't excessively disadvantage his party. His problem is that there are too many old dinosaurs on his back benches who still believe it's only a matter of time before they can win outright power again, and then everything will be as it was in 1983.

It'll be interesting to see what happens. Personally I'm not holding my breath (yet), but I find the idea that you are positive about it promising.

Either AV+ or FPTP with a top-up list would provide the local MP link you want to retain, however in my view those systems make it too difficult to get rid of personally unpopular MPs, because they can get in on the regional list if they fail to win in a constituency. Making the regional list open (i.e. you see all the names listed for each party, and X one of them, rather than simply X-ing the party) would solve the problem, but it creates another - absolutely massive ballot papers.

I don't think massive ballot papers are a problem. I've voted on A1 size ballot papers. It's only a problem if you've got very short arms.

It'll be interesting to see what (if anything) will change. As said, I really like the idea of having a proportional system with local links and the ability to get rid of unpopular people. Best of both worlds if you ask me.