Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis
Mr Angry you still havent answered my question.
As far as I am concerned someone finding my ip on a torrent tracker is NOT sufficient evidence.
So will isps be cutting off users based on that sort of information after the bill is passed?
Proper legal process which is fair is for the end user's computer to be examined for the content and after that evidence that they have distributed the material. Yes its a lot of work and yes life is a bitch, but everyone else outside of the industry also has to follow these kind of procedures for prosecutions.
So posting me an AUP which states if I break the law I can be cutoff is completely irrelevant.
Just so this is clarified I dont use torrents, and I dont download music. So this is not about myself its about having a proper legal process.
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Chrysalis, with all due respect, I have answered your question.
For the sake of clarity - as I posted above - third party involvement aside your ISP is entirely within their rights to monitor and suspend or terminate your services if they believe they have sufficient reason to do so as a result of your having breached any of the many and varied terms and conditions (several of which I have printed above in black for all to see) to which you have subscribed.
However much you might wish to think that you are entitled to a CSI type investigation headed up by Grissom and a full jury based trial before Judge Judy decides whether you should be cut off or not it simply is not going to happen - nor has it ever been a requirement.
"Pirates" have bought into and propagated this idea that things should be free and ISPs have been remiss in enforcing their own terms and conditions and protecting the intellectual copyrights of third parties - choosing instead to chant the tired old mantras that they are "only a conduit" or "not there to police the internet".
Those days are over, it is real world time and, whether you, personally, upload or download material illegally is of no personal interest to me in this particular argument.
The fact is that Virgin Media, and I suspect all other ISPs, have in their terms and conditions sufficiently robust caveats to enable them to suspend or terminate services where a user is found to be infringing on a third party's rights.
Indeed, having just done a check out of interest here are
TalkTalk's:
Your Use of the Services
6.1
You agree not to use the Services:
6.1.1 for business purposes or to sell on or supply the Services to anyone on a commercial basis;
6.1.2
for making calls,
sending data, publishing, knowingly receiving, uploading or downloading any data or material which are or may be reasonably deemed to be a nuisance, a hoax, abusive, obscene, racist, defamatory, menacing, indecent (including to the Customer Services operators who deal with enquiries concerning the Service), in breach of confidence,
in breach of any intellectual property right (including copyright) or which is otherwise objectionable or unlawful,
or you allow others to do these things.
7.1
We may suspend immediately the provision of the Services to you until further notice without compensation if:
7.1.1
we reasonably suspect that you are in breach of these Conditions;
Someone really ought to point this out to Mr Heaney and his "Don't disconnect us" campaign who state [superironicdoublestandardspeak]
It is not for rightsholders to make decisions about whether someone is guilty or not of infringing copyright[/superironicdoublestandardspeak].
The fact is, as I pointed earlier, ISPs have always had this right / obligation but have previously refused to enforce it because it would cost them customer revenue. Because they have refused to act previously the problem has grown exponentially to the point that it is very seriously impacting on industries and GDPs across the world.
Neither the Government, nor the rights holders, are prepared to sit back any longer.
ISPs who, lets face it, make millions from selling / boasting of their download capabilities are being brought to book (kicking and screaming I might add) hence this consultation on shared costs.
In summary:
As evidenced above ISPs can cut you off if they (with or without third party ie. rights holder participation) find you to be , or in the case of TalkTalk merely "suspect" you of being, in breach of another persons copyright or intellectual rights as per their terms and conditions.
They do not need, nor have they ever needed, a court order nor a due judicial process to do so.
Indeed as evidenced in TalkTalk's T&Cs they, contrary to Mr Heaneys assertions, are prepared to cut subscribers off without proof of infringing activities citing their reasonable suspicion as sufficient grounds to do so.
As a party to any contract you have a legal right to appeal any such decision on the part of an ISP with whom you were party to the provision of such services in the event that you feel they have acted unlawfully or breached their obligations under said contract.
The Government are now using existing law in conjunction with the DEB to force ISPs to comply with the law and their own (the ISPs) terms and conditions and warranties to third parties.
It is quite simple and, as I sad, nothing new in real terms bar a "pulling up of the socks" being forced on the ISPs.
If you cannot understand that then I'm sorry.