[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

True, but the fact that one side lies does not absolve the press from lying. We could take it further and dismiss complaints against Blair, Bush etc because there are far worse leaders in the world.

As I said in my previous post, Politicians can be held to account if they lie (or even if they tell the truth for that matter). The press does not. There is no one to call the press to account when they lie, there is with those in power. You can vote them out. And the media will make dam sure you know that they are properly lying (even if they are not).

The media also controls politics in some extent. The Sun boasted of winning last Tory victory in a general election, they are opinion makers and the way they present a party gives or takes power away from that party. One of the first phone calls Major made after the events of Black Wednesday was to phone the Sun to see how they will cover it. They hold a lot of power.



They have fewer controls to ensure honesty, and worse they incur much more trust. People are conditioned not to believe politicians; they are not with the media. Which is scary, Since it means most of the time if the press invents a story, most people will believe it.

A more responsible media would also lead for more responsible leaders. While they have always lied New Labours culture of spin was based on a way of dealing with the media. A media which is obsessed with catchy headlines, sound bites, and easy to digest policies. They are not big fans of complexity, which almost every bill has in spades, so they tend to bil things down to a matter of good vs evil so they can sum a whole issue up without getting into details. Everything is black and white. So the politicians respond in kind. Also obsessed with getting good press because they want to win elections.

The tabloid press are just as guilty as all the things they accuse governments off. Governments may be worse, but the root of improving politicians requires a better media. Otherwise we are stuck in this cycle.

As I think I've already made clear I'm not against a more responsible media - in fact a degree more responsibility all round (starting with our government and public bodies) would be a very good thing!! It's down to the government of the day to set and maintain the standard of honesty, integrity and professionalism NOT the tabloids or any other part of the media.

I am against people attaching disproportionate blame to a certain small section of the media and using simplistic phrases like "you can't believe what you read in the tabloids" and "well, what do you expect of tabloid readers" and "have you been reading the tabloids again" to stereotype, patronise, disrespect and/or disregard the views of anyone who has the temerity to disagree with them.

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 ----------

Originally Posted by BBKing

Osem, turning the murder of a 15 year old into a veiled attack on me is so far from classy that you can't see it with a high-powered telescope. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.
Anyway, you haven't been paying attention - you can trust murder figures from tabloids for the same reason you can trust them from the police*. The difference is that the police will point out when they reduce, which they have.

One thing - this isn't just another murder in London, it's another murder in Lambeth, which has way higher rates than anywhere else in the capital, 8.64 per 100,000 population in 2007. Next worst was Newham with 5.33, round my way it's 1.41.

* they're impossible to lie about, which is a common argument of mine against the 'you can't trust government crime figures so I'll believe the Daily Mail' line. It's only at the lower end of the seriousness of crime that you can plausibly say that figures can be distorted by under-reporting or official indifference, but murder has a near-100% reporting rate and the police always investigate, so that line of argument is ridiculous and verges on conspiracy theory.

What utter tosh! Is that unveiled enough for you?

I'm not ashamed of anything and unlike you I don't rely on being patronising to try and make a point. If you paid more attention to the issues than you do to your fixation with the tabloids you'd notice I've posted more more than my fair share of threads and posts relating to the tragedy of the society we live in. Oddly enough it's normally you who appears and starts chucking pathetic insults about the tabloid media around.

Oh and since you're obviously not been paying enough attention in class, my initial point was not related to number of murders which obviously isn't in doubt since there are very sadly the mutilated bodies to count. It was directed at the way patronising people like you jump on the tabloid driven hysteria and sensationalism bandwagon every time it happens.