Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1
anyone noticed the modereators over on the BT forum seems to have gone silent,
and i have not noticed any posts being edited or removed lately?
perhaps they are actually watching the progress and it is ringing alarm bells with them?
peter
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The reason they are quiet, is because they are too busy trying to chase the BTWebwise site around the internet and around the globe since various facts came out about how the BT Webwise site has been operating.
www.webwise.bt.com has just disappeared - that's the one that used to resolve to the Phorm IP
http://webwise.bt.com is still live but living much closer to home than it used to last week.
I must confess to a feeling of satisfaction that we may have created a lot of work and panic at BT - but there again - maybe it is all part of a carefully planned schedule of routine maintenance in preparation for the trials - which will no doubt be happening any day now.
---------- Post added at 14:19 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by jelv
Thinking forward - if BT implement Phorm, could BT do the following and still stay within the law:
Stage 1
Change the T&Cs for new users joining the service. These would include their version of what the Phorm/Webwise system does and could say that by agreeing to these T&Cs you are agreeing to be opted in to Webwise by default. BT/Phorm would then be able to say people had made inphormed consent.
We all know that many people just click agree without reading the conditions.
Stage 2
Require people changing or adding products to their service to agree to the T&Cs as above. For example, they will at some stage be moving people across to the higher ADSL2+ speeds offered under 21CN, this would be a great opportunity for them to effectively impose acceptance of changed conditions - accept Phorm or you can't have the higher speeds.
Going further, would it be legal for BT to at some stage to repeat the above, only making Phorm/Webwise mandatory with no opt out?
If the above is possible, surely that is a very strong argument against those idiots who are at present saying they are not too bothered because they will be able to opt out. Widespread penetration of Phorm in to the ISP market would put Kent in to an incredibly powerful position of being able to control the information fed to the masses.
Unfortunately, we can all think of examples around the world where people have only been shaken out of their apathy and tried to stand up to be counted after the argument has been lost. We must make sure that Kent (Adolf) Entrugel isn't allowed to become the latest example of evil men who succeed to gaining an inappropriate level of power.
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I would say that BT are probably headed in that direction already.
If someone agrees to the BT Webwise trials they will get new T&C's - already stated by BT.
If someone agrees to the Webwise rollout if it occurs - they will also get new T&C's
If someone takes a new contract or additional services BT already are routinely in the habit of imposing new T&C's - so that is not anything new.
However - whatever the T&C's say - if the basic technology is still illegal then it fails.
The crunch will as you say, be - what ARE the barriers to legality? Depsite all the FIPR/Clayton/Davies/Hanff reports - it still isn't clear to me that we have established the illegality of Webwise/Phorm technology - if we had, the ICO and the police wouldn't be throwing it all back at us and saying go take a jump.
We may be convinced - but have we convinced anyone else yet?
If the only barrier is just "informed consent" - then getting DPI and targetted advertising working across the user base will be relatively easy within a period of 12 months or so with some clever marketing and "added value services" like BT Vision/BT Anywhere etc.
My recent experiences tracking what BT do with my data right NOW have convinced me that ISP's need watching very carefully - but by WHO? No one seems interested in doing the job - neither the ICO or the Police who look like they will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the investigation.