[Florence]

Originally Posted by Cumulus

All the content of the http pages will be scanned, so in theory the contents of a number of shopping baskets (for example) could be analysed to calculate this information. However, from what we know about the Webwise/OIX system (see Richard Clayton's analysis), the software does not appear to record information at the level of detail to do this consistently and accurately, and as far as I know there is no intention to do this anyway.

What it would pick up are the items bought not the prices but then you have just bought these items so the adverts targeted at you from that list would not be relevent as you already had them.

Originally Posted by Cumulus

This is an important point you raise as most of the discussion about Webwise/OIX so far has centered on the privacy concerns of the internet user rather than the websites and the individuals, companies and other organisations that are running these websites. My feeling is that there is currently a low level of awareness about Webwise/OIX amongst website owners - I certainly have concerns but until we know more details including which pages are going to be scanned, I can't advise clients as to what actions to take. My feeling is that website owners shouldn't have to take any action - it should be opt-in for website owners as well as for web users.

This is one point I did raise and a reason I contacted Amazon, It would seem the ISPs idea is to blacklist sites that dont wish to have visitors that are phormed. If I remember correctly from an earlier post they asked for domain names to add to the blacklist. I feel this isn't the answer since their customers browsing habits will be forcable changed if the site blacklisted is one their customers visit.
On a personal note I have taken my personal website down for now domain name is there pointing to my hosting but the site is down until I decide what is the best way to fight this. After 10years I no longer have my website up just due to ISP greed.

Originally Posted by Cumulus

As a example of how Webwise/OIX can affect a company's business consider an ecommerce site as you described. A company is likely to have spent a lot of time and money attracting people to the site through providing good, relevant content, pay-per-click advertising etc. Any prospective customers and the content they view will get picked up by Webwise, and on visiting an OIX partner site, that prospective customer may be delivered an advert for a product related to that content. Retailers will not be pleased that their hard work is effectively being used to deliver adverts for a competitor!

I have to agree if phorm takes the route they are many smaller companies could face closing down due to loss of potentual customers. I also feel that with many people it is a known fact that some can't ressist buying if they are targeted with adverts. Many people over the years have ended up in financial difficulties by people becoming compulsive shoppers. Phorm is anopther case where they could push them over the edge with targeted adds. I quote Kent's words on click whan hit with 100s of adds a few pony ones would be missed. So he plans to hit us with 100s of adds?
As without targeted adverts I am lucky if I see 10 in a month or is that unlucky. I block them all I have more blocked content than websites in fav's

Originally Posted by Cumulus

Another area that is likely to be important to website owners concerns protected content. There is no indication that Webwise can accurately determine whether a user is authenticated (there are a large number of ways that a user may be authenticated) so it looks likely that protected content will be scanned in many cases - this information may be commercially sensitive so this is clearly a concern for the website owner.

many forums I visit on a regular basis I am set to auto login so teir is no login screen. On a few I have admin rights so access to members data had I stayed with VM I would have felt I was failing in my obligation to the websites to help protect their members from interception.

Originally Posted by Cumulus

I could go on but these are some of the issues that website owners will be interested in, and Phorm's proposed opt-out for websites using a file originally designed to tell search engines which pages cannot be indexed (robots.txt) does not adequately address the issues. And this totally ignores any legal issues there may be with the Webwise/OIX system in the first place.

I personally feel that if webwise goes ahead they need to contact all websites from the contact us page and get informed consent to phorm the pages if this is refused and they block the sites so the ISPs customers cannot get to them then the ISPs become guilty by association to blackmail of wither website owners or customers by blocking sites they visit in a phree (sorry free) world.

Originally Posted by R Jones

The ISP's are claiming that webwise fulfils explicit informed consent on the part of the surfer/ISP customer. (We are challenging that on the basis that they will need to give us a heck of a lot of inphormation for it to be phully inphormed consent - a lot more than "anti-phishing and relevant adverts"

They also need to stop the CS staff from giving out incorrect information saying it is for their protection as to some this very phrase will panic them, when they most likely have enough already. Kent implies that 90% of the web users are idiots and unable to switch on anti phishing in IE7 this browser will warn you the site might be dangerous and do you want to switch on anti phishing now it takes ONE CLICK to switch it on so no need for a degree in computer science.

Originally Posted by R Jones

They are "assuming" implied consent on the part of the website operator.
(We are challenging that on the basis that allowing search engines is NOT the same as allowing Webwise, and anyway there are a shedload of problems - such as websites who specifically say they don't allow Webwise, such as webmail sites not on the blacklist, such as protected parts of sites and whether Phorm/Webwise can detect/distinguish them - etc etc - list is quite long including Dephormation's copyright arguments)

And anyway - before we get into that there are fundamental reasons (Alex Hanff etc) why the whole thing is illegal in the first place, on the grounds of the fundamental interception required and the level at which that interception occurs.

Am I summing this up right?

Totally correct The only way to make this not work for ISPs is for all to refuse to opt-in, refuse to be phormed, refuse to have you privacy radid.

To win Phorm the public at large needs to stand and say no to webwise.