Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank
I disagree (which I know you won't have issues with Oblonsky) - there are issues to be debated and whilst we have the resources to go into battle on all fronts we should not withdraw on any.
We are not losing resources to fight these battles, we are gaining them. We are not weakening but growing in strength.
So, the implied consent battle is something we should continue with.
If this was an actual war, given our growing numbers we would not withdraw from one front because we don't need to. And the implied consent issue is another front or part of the battle which we should stick with because we can win it too. 
Hank |
I was lucky enough to speak to 2 MPs about this, one of whom couldn't see what all the fuss was about. He was also a solicitor. When I used an argument from a letter published further UT about cyber security threats, and explained about RIPA and web email it was a different story.
The problem we will face is not simply "numbers" but also legitimacy and power of arguments. It's not about battling the letter of the law, its about showing powerful reasoning. It's about pursuading the poeple in power to act.
I can't prove anything I write so I will just have to leave it to you all to decide, but I was surprised to see my CF reputation actually grow rather than shrink despite the public bashing, because, during the heated debate, some people out there actually agreed when I said we need to choose our battles.
Find the weakest points in the ISPs defence and stick to that.
They can't distinguish between protected and published web content therefore their system can never be legal.
To respond to some of you, the implied consent argument is not instead of the informed opt-in argument. Informed opt-in relates to users and the "implied consent" argument relates only to web publishers. RIPA needs consent of both parties so the implied consent argument coupled with user op-in together, arguably, get that consent.
It may or may not be valid in law, no-one knows, but it is irrelevant to the debate, since more powerful arguments exist once you establish that there is no sound way of ignoring all web based email services without an opt-in from website owners too. And there is no way a sender of an email implies his or her consent for that email to be intercepted and profiled en-route.
You may not see the subtlety of what I am saying, but again I can't do anything else but assure you it is vitally important to the debate.
The copyright argument will garner no support from MPs or regulators. It's a dead duck.
I've taken my time to explain this in great detail over the last 2 sessions of posting to hopefully pursuade some of you to think about how you present arguments to the likes of MPs
I'll repeat again what I said earlier, again I can't prove it but take it on face value. Someone very close to BT told me they were confident that nothing would come of the trials, because of a confusion [amongs protestors, amongst authorities] over what sections of the law had been breached.
Help clean up the confusion.
I've been reading this thread from the start but I posted to spread a specific message about tightening up your legal arguments.
Alex may tell you that all the legal experts he's spoken to agree on all the points, which would be excellent news, but unfortunately if all legal minds did agree then I very much doubt any of the ISPs would have signed up to Phorm.
Lawyers exploit loopholes. Focus on defending against this.
It will be a battle even getting anything to court and an even bigger battle thereon in.
I feel strengthened by the messages of support from some of you. I'm not a Phorm shareholder and some people UT obviously think it's good sport to prod the "grumpy bear" but honestly, why would a Phorm shareholder rip apart the system:
How Webwise Works: Sun Mar 09 2008, 05:58PM
http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...wtopic.php?548
With a lot of help from other Badphormers we established how bad the system was in terms of performance and redirects a full month before Clayton published his report. Special thanks to Phormic Acid for working out also that phorged cookies would be planted in other people's domains, as well as many other contributors.
It's time to leave, I have work today. Have a nice day everyone.