Cable Forum - View Single Post - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

popper · 25-04-2008, 06:13

as i outlined previously the need and requirements to send your Data Protection Act Notices.

here's an interesting Virgin Media DPA Notice post, and in this case (most of you forgot about that PFPODM statute so i thought id remind you

)the "the right to prevent Processing For Purposes Of Direct Marketing"

but the exact same approach is used for removal of their rights to process, and/or giving them your explicit instructions on how and when you will allow them to process your data collecting,processing,storing and Exporting outside the UK etc.

its your data, and you tell them what they can or cant do with it, remember.

i post it here for clarity and as a letter template reference later, but go over there and also contribute to the slow CAG phorm thread, as it seems the CAG ISP section is in need of a massive revitalisation of new ISP consumer blood

and i wont re-enclose the original quotes but rather use "---" so as to make it easyer to include if you want to, in any reply's
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post1490209
"
djdave
Gold Account Customer
Re: Phorm..... Here's my experience with Virgin Media so far.

I wrote to them a few weeks ago with this letter:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------start
Quote:
The Data Controller
Virgin Media
PO Box 333,
Matrix Court,
Swansea.
SA7 9ZJ

19 March 2008

Dear Sir / Madam,

Formal notice under Section 11 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (the right to prevent processing for purposes of direct marketing)

Virgin Account number: xxxxxxxxx

Please take note that I do not give my consent for Virgin Media to share any of my data (including but not limited to browsing habits, keywords, search terms) with external advertisers, including but not limited to Phorm / Webwise.

This applies even if such data is considered to be Non-Personally Identifiable Information, anonymous or untraceable.

I am aware that the proposed Phorm service will enable me to opt-out using cookies on my PC, but take note that I do not consent for any of my data to be passed to Phorm or any external advertiser irrespective of cookies or any other technology.

You will be aware that the Home Office recently published a report which concluded that “targeted online advertising services should be provided with the explicit consent of ISPs' users”. My consent will not be forthcoming.

I now expect your assurance, in writing, that you will put measures in place to comply with this notice. Specifically I require your confirmation that I will not need to take any measures on my PC or router to prevent my data being passed to Phorm or any third-party advertiser.

You will be aware that s11 Data Protection Act 1998 provides that where a Data Controller has failed to act on such a Notice within a reasonable period, a court may order the Controller to take such steps as the court sees fit to comply.

I would consider 28 days to be a “reasonable period” for you to comply.
I appreciate your due diligence on this matter.

Yours faithfully,
-----------------------------------------------------------end

The response I received (from Customer Concern, not the Data Controller) was basically "Webwise will be good for you, protecting you from phishing and those nasty irrelevant adverts. Ignore the anti-Phorm propoganda in the media, you can trust us. We know what's best.". Not in those exact words, you understand!

So I sent them this:

---------------------------------------------------------start
Quote:
Pete Moore
Customer Concern
Virgin Media
Matrix Court
Llansamlet
SA7 9BB

3 April 2008

Dear Sir,

Virgin Account number: xxxxxxx
Your reference: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I am in receipt of your letter of 26th March which raises some fresh concerns, not the least of which is your inability to distinguish between my forename and surname.

I find myself disappointed that you have chosen to treat my letter as a simple complaint, rather than as a statutory notice under Section 11 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (Data Protection Act) as I believe I made clear in the heading of my letter.

You will surely be aware that Virgin Media has a statutory duty under the Data Protection Act to implement a request for personal data not to be used for the purposes of direct marketing, and your failure thus far to act on my request leaves you open to legal and regulatory action.

I trust that you will now ensure that a copy of my original letter is passed to your Data Controller for his immediate attention.

Furthermore, I am saddened to find that Virgin Media has apparently adopted the same “we know what’s good for you” stance as Phorm themselves. I am perfectly well aware of how the system works without your patronising effort to explain it.

The “Webwise” system is of absolutely no value or interest to me, as my browser already incorporates an anti-phishing system- although I choose not to use it. I also block the vast majority of advertisements whether relevant or otherwise, and in any case would not click on any such adverts.

You claim that “a lot of what is being touted [about Phorm] is ill-informed”. While I am sure there has been some degree of speculation about the system in certain elements of the media, my opinion has been formed from reading transcripts of interviews with Kent Ertegrul, the CEO of Phorm itself.

For the avoidance of doubt I would ask you one simple yes-or-no question as follows:

If I choose not to participate in this “service”, will Virgin Media take permanent steps to ensure that none of my data, internet traffic or browsing patterns will be passed to Phorm or any other third party irrespective of any settings or cookies on my computer(s) and router?

I have grave concerns that should you do so without my express consent you would be in breach of both the Data Protection Act 1998 and Section 1 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000.

You should be aware that should Virgin Media not now act to address my concerns I shall report the matter to the Information Commissioner’s Office, as well as bringing it to the attention of local and national media and to my local Member of Parliament.

Needless to say I would also terminate my contract with Virgin Media and move my internet and telephone services to a company which has undertaken not to use this “service”.

I trust that you will now give due diligence to this matter, and I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,
--------------------------------------------------------------end

Again I've received a reply apologising for any concerns I might have but assuring me that Webwise is wonderful and that when the time comes for Phorm to go live it'll be made clear - and I'll have the opportunity to opt out.

THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

As I understand it, if I opt out all that will happen is I won't see the ads - my traffic will still be routed via Webwise. Well I use IE7Pro and don't see adverts anyway! I do not want my data to be passed to Phorm, whether anonymised or not. I believe that to do so against my express wishes would be unlawful.

Virgin are treading a dangerous path legally, by failing to pass a valid Statutory Notice to their data controller. I'm about to pass copies of my correspondence to the Information Commissioner's Office, and I'll keep you posted.

"

25-04-2008, 06:13	#4781
popper Inactive Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,270	Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] as i outlined previously the need and requirements to send your Data Protection Act Notices. here's an interesting Virgin Media DPA Notice post, and in this case (most of you forgot about that PFPODM statute so i thought id remind you )the "the right to prevent Processing For Purposes Of Direct Marketing" but the exact same approach is used for removal of their rights to process, and/or giving them your explicit instructions on how and when you will allow them to process your data collecting,processing,storing and Exporting outside the UK etc. its your data, and you tell them what they can or cant do with it, remember. i post it here for clarity and as a letter template reference later, but go over there and also contribute to the slow CAG phorm thread, as it seems the CAG ISP section is in need of a massive revitalisation of new ISP consumer blood and i wont re-enclose the original quotes but rather use "---" so as to make it easyer to include if you want to, in any reply's http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post1490209 " djdave Gold Account Customer Re: Phorm..... Here's my experience with Virgin Media so far. I wrote to them a few weeks ago with this letter: -----------------------------------------------------------------------start Quote: The Data Controller Virgin Media PO Box 333, Matrix Court, Swansea. SA7 9ZJ 19 March 2008 Dear Sir / Madam, Formal notice under Section 11 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (the right to prevent processing for purposes of direct marketing) Virgin Account number: xxxxxxxxx Please take note that I do not give my consent for Virgin Media to share any of my data (including but not limited to browsing habits, keywords, search terms) with external advertisers, including but not limited to Phorm / Webwise. This applies even if such data is considered to be Non-Personally Identifiable Information, anonymous or untraceable. I am aware that the proposed Phorm service will enable me to opt-out using cookies on my PC, but take note that I do not consent for any of my data to be passed to Phorm or any external advertiser irrespective of cookies or any other technology. You will be aware that the Home Office recently published a report which concluded that “targeted online advertising services should be provided with the explicit consent of ISPs' users”. My consent will not be forthcoming. I now expect your assurance, in writing, that you will put measures in place to comply with this notice. Specifically I require your confirmation that I will not need to take any measures on my PC or router to prevent my data being passed to Phorm or any third-party advertiser. You will be aware that s11 Data Protection Act 1998 provides that where a Data Controller has failed to act on such a Notice within a reasonable period, a court may order the Controller to take such steps as the court sees fit to comply. I would consider 28 days to be a “reasonable period” for you to comply. I appreciate your due diligence on this matter. Yours faithfully, -----------------------------------------------------------end The response I received (from Customer Concern, not the Data Controller) was basically "Webwise will be good for you, protecting you from phishing and those nasty irrelevant adverts. Ignore the anti-Phorm propoganda in the media, you can trust us. We know what's best.". Not in those exact words, you understand! So I sent them this: ---------------------------------------------------------start Quote: Pete Moore Customer Concern Virgin Media Matrix Court Llansamlet SA7 9BB 3 April 2008 Dear Sir, Virgin Account number: xxxxxxx Your reference: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx I am in receipt of your letter of 26th March which raises some fresh concerns, not the least of which is your inability to distinguish between my forename and surname. I find myself disappointed that you have chosen to treat my letter as a simple complaint, rather than as a statutory notice under Section 11 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (Data Protection Act) as I believe I made clear in the heading of my letter. You will surely be aware that Virgin Media has a statutory duty under the Data Protection Act to implement a request for personal data not to be used for the purposes of direct marketing, and your failure thus far to act on my request leaves you open to legal and regulatory action. I trust that you will now ensure that a copy of my original letter is passed to your Data Controller for his immediate attention. Furthermore, I am saddened to find that Virgin Media has apparently adopted the same “we know what’s good for you” stance as Phorm themselves. I am perfectly well aware of how the system works without your patronising effort to explain it. The “Webwise” system is of absolutely no value or interest to me, as my browser already incorporates an anti-phishing system- although I choose not to use it. I also block the vast majority of advertisements whether relevant or otherwise, and in any case would not click on any such adverts. You claim that “a lot of what is being touted [about Phorm] is ill-informed”. While I am sure there has been some degree of speculation about the system in certain elements of the media, my opinion has been formed from reading transcripts of interviews with Kent Ertegrul, the CEO of Phorm itself. For the avoidance of doubt I would ask you one simple yes-or-no question as follows: If I choose not to participate in this “service”, will Virgin Media take permanent steps to ensure that none of my data, internet traffic or browsing patterns will be passed to Phorm or any other third party irrespective of any settings or cookies on my computer(s) and router? I have grave concerns that should you do so without my express consent you would be in breach of both the Data Protection Act 1998 and Section 1 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. You should be aware that should Virgin Media not now act to address my concerns I shall report the matter to the Information Commissioner’s Office, as well as bringing it to the attention of local and national media and to my local Member of Parliament. Needless to say I would also terminate my contract with Virgin Media and move my internet and telephone services to a company which has undertaken not to use this “service”. I trust that you will now give due diligence to this matter, and I look forward to your response. Yours faithfully, --------------------------------------------------------------end Again I've received a reply apologising for any concerns I might have but assuring me that Webwise is wonderful and that when the time comes for Phorm to go live it'll be made clear - and I'll have the opportunity to opt out. THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH! As I understand it, if I opt out all that will happen is I won't see the ads - my traffic will still be routed via Webwise. Well I use IE7Pro and don't see adverts anyway! I do not want my data to be passed to Phorm, whether anonymised or not. I believe that to do so against my express wishes would be unlawful. Virgin are treading a dangerous path legally, by failing to pass a valid Statutory Notice to their data controller. I'm about to pass copies of my correspondence to the Information Commissioner's Office, and I'll keep you posted. "