[popper]

care of the
Charles Arthur

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...omment-1046919 Tech blog.

Gnasherx makes some excellent points on the guardian blog in relation to my earlyer post "did they follow the PIA rules, i wonder" on this CF thread, see #27 for the PIA links.

to improve the odds and try and get some clear answers before tuesday relating to the PIA , i have included his questions here.

"
Gnasherx

Comment No. 1046909
April 13 18:59

Simon,

I am still in the dark about why you are holding this meeting.

You say it's process driven and I've looked at the process. I wonder to what extent you believe you are following it.

Where are the PIA objectives, terms of reference or stakeholder analysis? The PIA project plan?

Before engaging in discussions with stakeholders the ICO suggests the preparation of a project background paper. This document is to "establish the basis for discussions with stakeholders".

Do you believe that you have identified stakeholders? Consulted them? Given them a project background paper?

What is the strategy for stakeholder analysis? Are you satisfied that, in accordance with ICO guidance, it is quite distinct from any communications strategy?

PIA is a process for projects. For what project is this PIA conducting privacy risk assessment? Is it BT's implementation project? BT's planned trials? Virgin Media's implementation project? Carphone Warehouse's implementation project?

Why in any case is Phorm commissioning a PIA for proposed projects that are going to be run by BT, Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse? The ICO process specifies that "The organisation that is the primary driver of the project must take responsibility for the PIA."

Is Phorm the primary driver of the proposed implementations by BT, Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse? If not, why has Phorm not invited the "primary drivers"?

Will anyone at the meeting know what systems are actually proposed to be implemented by BT, Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse?

Will anyone have seen the specifications for these systems?

What in fact is the system that is the subject of the PIA? Does it have a specification?

Without proper compliance with the PIA process, it is hard to see what useful purpose this meeting can serve. I'm afraid to say, even though I am sure that you, Simon, are a genuine and sincere person, that this meeting looks more like an impression management exercise than an element in a coherent PIA project.


Would it be possible for you to regroup:

Decide what project and what system the impact assessment is for. Publish the specification of the system in question. Devise and publish PIA objectives. Sort out the PIA strategy and governance. Publish a PIA project plan and project background paper.


Conduct a proper stakeholder analysis. (I suggest the stakeholder analysis should look at owners of the content that is proposed to be harvested as well as ISP customers.)


Engage properly and respectfully with stakeholders, and do not treat them like performing bears in gladiatorial public meetings.


Although I feel very strongly about the human rights impact of the proposed systems, I will not attend this meeting. I would hope however that at some point a PIA does take place that allows me to be informed and consulted properly.
"

---------- Post added at 05:48 ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 ----------

Originally Posted by 80/20Thinking

Folks, can you release me for a while? I know there are many questions I haven't yet answered, but pressing work awaits me and I must get it finished before the new week begins. I'll do my best to come back tomorrow and give you more answers.

Simon

, its OK Simon, you might be the CEO of your company , but your also just a bloke,that eats, sleeps and the other thing just like the rest of us.

remember, its people that make a company, and people are just people at the end of the day, no matter were they sit on the board.

you can come and go as you please here, after all this is the open Independent cable forum message board, dedicated to helping everyone that needs/ask for help on many matters, not just Broadband or web matters.

im thinking of putting you up for a Nominations for the Most Helpful Post of April 2008 run by our very own Incognitas without fail every month.
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/27...il-2008-a.html
Bump.

you can be just another member here if you like, but we reserve the right to ask a question now and again, and your right to ignore it if you please.

with that in mind, you might also take a look in your Expanding rollerdex, and give Neil as call... and tell him to get himself over here, we have several idea's that we want him to understand regarding the VM business model and products and what we want from it, he's missing a lot of real feedback he might find interesting here.

---------- Post added at 06:19 ---------- Previous post was at 05:48 ----------

Originally Posted by CaptJamieHunter

Phew! Take a few hours off to do domestics and look what happens...

I'd love to see Phorm get its backside kicked up to its neck from as many angles as possible. I'd love to see BT get dragged through the courts and crucified (yes, there is a degree of maliciousness there but I've already briefly mentioned why and nothing will change that - karma will repay BT for what it's done to me) and I'd love to see Virgin Media do what The Guardian did and reject Phorm with a really bitchslapping (can I say that mod?) statement. Then for the investigatory powers to tell Phorm they are illegal under RIPA.

The only way things like that are going to happen is if we keep on target with the facts and the issues. If things get personal we don't help ourselves. Keep it professional, respectful and on target. The most successful backside kicking I've achieved has come not when I've gone nuclear but when I've kept it professional. There's a lesson there. Annoying when there are people out there who deserve nothing less than a darn good kicking but the result is more important.

I'd like to thank Simon for coming to CF and engaging us in discussion. He didn't have to. He could have just said "See you on Tuesday" and left it at that. It's Phorm and the ISPs that should be our targets here. Yes, 80/20T have been commissioned to do a PIA. So let's input into that process rather than start slating people involved in it. If you're going to win the game you've got to play by the rules. Remember, Simon has come here with a background that's nothing like Phorm has and 80/20T has a published code of ethics to which they must surely expect to be held to account.

These little factoids about strategic companies are all very interesting but if you set your scopes too wide you pull in too much information to analyse and lose focus. We know some of the circumstances surrounding the PIA. Perhaps more will come to light on Tuesday (full Terms Of Reference would be nice). Let's read the PIA closely, highlight the areas which seem questionable and ask why those conclusions were reached when the PIA is published.

We all believe in our message. Tuesday is an opportunity to get that message across to media outlets and to push it into the PIA even more by asking the questions Phorm don't want to answer. I personally don't think the two bods phrom Phorm will be all that interested in what those opposing them have to say. When Ahmedinajad spoke at Columbia University did he listen to what the Chancellor of the University had to say? Did he take it seriously? No, he didn't. He was never going to. Same with Mugabe and Gordon Brown's demanding the Zimbabwe election results are published.

Generally I've got a short temper. A real illegitimate sort of temper, if you know what I mean. One very respected leader in his sector I was working for took me to one side and we talked for a while about work stuff. "It's how you get the message across as much as the message itself," he said. "Keeping your lid on, staying professional is always the better way, even when it's an issue you believe so passionately in, as I know you do here. I think you are right but you need to get the right message across." Of course, he could say that because he had a huge and disarming smile Something I do not. He was also 6ft 5in tall and built like a wing forward, something I am not.

On a slightly humorous note, anyone who wants really serious personal abuse should head on over to rec.arts.drwho and say how much you love Sylvester McCoy's portrayal of The Doctor. Then sit back and watch your mailbox melt with the flames. Not a course of action I'd recommend, mind...

On another side note, has anybody thought of contacting The Sun or The News Of The World about this? They've done a good job humiliating Max Mosley, after all...

Goodnight all, see you anon.

how Dare you say that , everyone knows john pertwee was the finest portrayal of the Doctor ever..., along with the UNIT Family story lines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Pertwee

---------- Post added at 07:54 ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 ----------

BTW, did anyone remember to email Tim Berners-Lee and tell him to come look at this CF thread and perhaps contribute?.
----------------------------

---------- Post added at 07:57 ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 ----------

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/me...ng-808600.html

"
Claire Beale on Advertising

</EM>
They know where you browse, but is online spying the way forward?
Monday, 14 April 2008

While most media are crouching, buttocks clenched, praying that recession won't bite, all things digital are roaring ahead.


There are new stats to prove it. Online advertising is now the third-largest advertising medium in the country, topping £2.8bn.

That's bigger than press classified advertising – in part because it's eaten into press classified advertising. It's also bigger than regional newspapers.

In fact, online advertising has grown nine times faster than the ad sector as a whole. It's all terribly impressive.
...
You may have read BT's recent confession that it carried out secret trials on 18,000 broadband customer accounts to examine web traffic and then to serve targeted ads on a number of websites.

Now, leaving aside for the moment questions of legality (according to the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, it's an offence to intercept web traffic without warrant or consent), the consensus is that this type of carefully targeted advertising will transform the internet's role as a commercial tool.

BT's test was conducted with a technology company now known as Phorm. Interestingly, if you search for Phorm in Google, the second listing you'll find is for a site called badphorm.co.uk, a sort of anti-Phorm site.
....
"

---------- Post added at 08:06 ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 ----------

INTERESTING...... bringing in the Phorm UK CEO into the news stories.
something to watch out for, and add some more names to the searchs.

and he talks up the paying crowd on the same day and time as the PIA down london....

see below.
http://www.phorm.com/about/exec_drayton.php

"[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]
Hugo Drayton, Chief Executive Officer, UK, brings wide-ranging experience in general management, media and online marketing to Phorm's UK operations.

Hugo most recently served as the Managing Director, Europe, of Time Warner's Advertising.com, a leading provider of interactive marketing solutions.

He also held senior roles at the Telegraph Group, where he was Managing Director, following positions as the company's Marketing Director and New Media Director.

As New Media Director, he was responsible for launching the UK's first online national newspaper (Electronic Telegraph) in 1994.

Prior to The Telegraph, Hugo was the International Director of Reed Telemedia, where he launched automated telephony partnerships in Portugal, Spain, France and the Czech Republic.

Hugo is Chairman of the British Internet Publishers Alliance, and a regular contributor to the trade press and digital publishing conferences."

http://www.how-do.co.uk/north-west-m...-200804142351/

"Phorm CEO to defend ‘user centred advertising’ on Tuesday night

Hugo Drayton, the CEO of digital advertising company Phorm which is at the centre of a growing furore over capturing data on users’ internet browsing habits, will be speaking at an event on Tuesday organised by Manchester Digital and networking group Chinwag.

....
At the event tomorrow night in Manchester, Drayton will be discussing ‘user centred advertising’.

Tickets are available from www.eventbrite.com/event/105105373

---------------------------------

---------- Post added at 08:13 ---------- Previous post was at 08:06 ----------

http://www.eventbrite.com/event/105105373
"

Chinwag Live: User Centered Advertising (in association with Manchester Digital)

Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:00 pm - 8:00 pm
Manchester, Greater Manchester

Early Bird (£20+VAT) more info Chinwag Live: User Centered Advertising in Manchester @ £20+ VAT

Ended
£23.50
£0.00
N/A

Organised in association with Manchester Digital, the independent trade association for the thriving ICT and new media industries in the North West.

Is advertising that's attuned to and valuable for consumers a contradiction in terms? Does it exist? Should it be created and how will it work?
....

---------- Post added at 08:15 ---------- Previous post was at 08:13 ----------

http://www.manchesterdigital.com/eve...=view&id=67716
"

...
Speakers

Hugo Drayton - CEO, Phorm
Hugo brings wide-ranging experience in general management, media and online marketing to Phorm's UK operations.

Hugo most recently served as the Managing Director, Europe, of Advertising.com.

He also held senior roles at the Telegraph Group, including Managing Director. He was responsible for launching the UK's first online national newspaper (Electronic Telegraph) in 1994.

Hugo is Chairman of the British Internet Publishers Alliance, and a regular contributor to the trade press and digital publishing conferences.

Priya Prakash - Head of Product, Flirtomatic
Priya's expertise lies in creating platforms - new forms of iPTV distribution channels and social media formats for traditional broadcast/ publishing media companies.

She has crafted prototypes to product-managed betas for services such as iPlayer, Project Kangaroo, and Trusted Places. Her projects have won awards such as the Royal Television Society award for (BBC) Interactive Media Player.

In 2005, she was awarded a NESTA grant to set up Digital Wellbeing Labs.

As Creative Director (Digital) at Hachette Filipacchi UK she was responsible for turning magazine titles such as Elle, Sugar etc into successful social media properties, and recently launched Sugarscape, a teen social bookmarking player for Sugar magazine.

Prior to HFUK, Prakash was Innovation Executive at BBC Innovation & Strategy, where she mentored and collaborated with UK digital startups to help drive innovation within BBC.

Dan McDevitt - Director, w00t!media
Profile to follow shortly.

CHAIR: David Bird - Senior Lecturer, MSc Digital Marketing & Communications, Manchester Metropolitan Uni
David is an old-school dot-com casualty having been a director in a number of first-mover new media companies during the mid-nineties, and Head of Learning Design at Academee until 2002. He has taught at a variety of institutions including the Information Technology Institute at Salford and at Sheffield Hallam.

David currently advises a number of firms in Manchester on how best to achieve market advantage through the use of new communication approaches.

His current practitioner-based work looks at how businesses adapt to social media when learning to communicate with customers.

He is responsible for the UK's first MSc in Digital Marketing developed with e-Consultancy and is a member of the Council at Manchester Digital.
More speakers to be announced shortly. ...
"