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Originally Posted by foreverwar
half a dozen true Eurosceptics??? errr, try again.
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Your figures are correct, but only true eurosceptics really had the guts to truly stand up to Major and the whips (one of whom was David Davis) and only 9 went far enough to have the whip withdrawn. I don't know how many of them would have voted against the treaty had the pressure on them not been so immense. Their job wasn't to keep Major in power! (The *******s were actually members of his own cabinet so called in 1993; who were opposed to him, but not enough to risk their own seats. My mistake earlier, and my apologies.)
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Originally Posted by Foreverwar
The Maastritch bill was passed by the House of Commons - or do you only believe in Democracy when it coincides with your beliefs and views?
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Oh no Foreverwar, I'm a supporter of democracy all right. If you can show me how John Major's Tories were elected on a ticket of giving great swathes of sovereign power to undemocratic EU institutions, with all that that implies, I'll be happy to concede that Major acted as a decent and honourable man. It is the British mainstream political parties, but particularly the hierarachy, that don't support democracy. Many, many years ago they admitted that they would never win the argument for European union in a democratic debate - so they have never had one. This is now known now because official papers were released under the 30 year rule confirming it.
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Originally Posted by foreverwar
And yes, thanks for providing a link to a Eurosceptic's site to back up your argument 
http://www.europeanfoundation.org/docs/April%202005.pdf page 25
" The choice of material in the foreword alerts the reader to the author’s fundamentally British Eurosceptic view of the Constitution, whilst the legal and constitutional analysis reflects the thinking of Bill Cash and the European Foundation" |
Which link? The last one I provided was a link to the Maastricht Treaty on an EU site. The opinions of the European Foundation are europhile to put it mildly. They still revere Robin Cook and Ted Heath!
Edit: Sorry I was thinking of the European Movement, not Foundation. I hadn't come across the organisation in your link. I'm really confused. Why did you provide its link?
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Originally Posted by foreverwar
As I said earlier, I can only go on personal experiences of meeting with the man, and discussions with others who had also met him - not just on reports from the newspapers, and Spitting Image/Steve Bell parodies of him - can you say the same?
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I never had the pleasure of meeting Major, and you are entitled to your opinion of him. But I don't base my opinion of him on your other suggested sources. The treaties themselves are enough (including those that preceded Maastricht) and his naive desire ["My aim for Britain in the Community can be simply stated. I want us to be where we belong. At the very heart of Europe"]. I said earlier that I don't rate the press as a reliable source.
Have you met any of the Maastricht Rebels?