[DeadKenny]

Originally Posted by themelon

Also the speeds mentioned are totally theoretical its likely that most people on a 512k ADSL service NEVER recieve the full service due to contention.

Contention also exists on NTL and no one ever on NTL receives the full 300, 750, 1.5Mbps due to basic IP overheads. If you are on an oversubscribed UBR you'll soon realise what the contention problems are on NTL.

Most people I know with 512kbps ADSL get around 450 to 500kbps which is about the same offset from peak as NTL customers get (i.e. back in the days of 600kbps, I'd get maybe between 500 and 550kbps in reality).

I still cant see the point of paying £19.99 for a capped service to download XP Service pack 2 (which royally screwed my computer anyway) when you can order a free update CD from microsoft using dial up and save the hassle!

Well, the benefits or otherwise of installing SP2 is another matter, that's just an example, there are loads of others. The main thing is for a few quid more you can download a chunky download in half the time but you may not need the capacity needed with uncapped. However, the likes of PlusNet allow you to PAYG if you need extra and if you really use a lot you can pay for uncapped. It's still better value for money than NTL (e.g. 2Mbps uncapped for £1 more than NTL's capped 1.5Mbps service).

Another note........BT dont tell you up front if your line is crap, they just dont tell you

Yes they do. It's called a line test (or swoosh test). I know people who've had their line rejected and BT have been very stubborn about it refusing to let them re-apply for ADSL. NTL just say "yes" knowing full well their network is crap and they don't give a toss. The worst thing is many installers don't check signal levels, and that leads to misery for years (like I've been experiencing) . If they got it right first time and ensured a new line was pulled if it wasn't up to the job, half of NTL's problems would go away.

, then they deny it, then they say tough you will just have to put up with it! Been there done that at my old house a crackly line that they wouldnt replace because it cost too much......which meant too much noise for usable ADSL.

Simple trick people have told me works (and I know from old experience with BT myself works)... just tell BT you can't make phone calls. They'll soon come out and fix it. In some cases they'll do it for free, in others they may charge, but it gets fixed. With NTL if the line is crap, it's tough, they won't fix it.

Personally I have Never had a problem with ntl customer service.....but have had plenty with BT.

Opposite with me. My problems with NTL are almost legendary I expect (going by the amount I've moaned about it through the years going back to the original nthellworld site before NTL bought it ). Since day 1 back in CableTel days it's been a disaster.

Once on losing service I had to ring them from a call box........they then ran a line test on the call box and told me there was NO fault.......after 30 minutes of arguing I managed to persude there was a problem and they reluctantly sent an engineer, who didnt come.

Sounds like NTL. Engineers who don't turn up at the right time, 4 call-outs in a row (each of those call outs a direct result of the previous call out being a screw up), engineers who make me wait in all day and fix the problem elsewhere but don't tell me so another day wasted, engineers who turn up on the wrong day and have the balls to blame ME for not being in and cancelling my call out!!

The information about ntl needed to replace the network is bull....its in a much better state than the 1930s Copper Cable local loops that BT have on their hands (OK inner city areas like London are good with Third party investment like Bulldog) but outer city areas will strugle to get 1Mb if that, much of the cable network is capable of running 8Mbs with a few minor modifications if there were suffieicent demand.....which there isnt currently. Britain has always been a nation of browsers and still is!

The old copper cable is more reliable than NTL's pathetic mess. The problem is with Cable Modem's reliance on fibre/coax and the huge signal problems this results in. Cable technology is a lot older than ADSL and isn't designed to cope with the sheer load of users and the heavy demands of digital TV.

8Mbps on the current NTL cable network is a pipedream. With the large number of users and varing support per region, most of the network can't cope with that level (or even half that), plus most of the set top boxes can't cope.

I'll tell you what needs replacing though, it's the coax cables that run to the houses that are almost all in a shoddy state and in a lot of cases where customers have signal problems they end up having to replace the cable with something that can actually cope (and even then, like in my case, it doesn't work).

P.S. I'm outside London and I'm on a 2Mbps enabled ADSL exchange (and within the distance for it).

Sorry, but you're preaching to the totally ****ed off here where the final straw has broken.

Besides this particular forum is for discussion of Other ISPs and this thread is about moving from NTL to ADSL, not for arguing that BT and/or ADSL may or may not be crap or worse/better than NTL. This is the thread and forum for those of us who never had NTL, cannot get NTL, or are fed up with NTL .