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Originally Posted by scastle
andygrif, what you say is true. However it is described, and even if it is morally right (debatable, but the position some posters here seem to be adopting), downloading copyrighted material via unauthorised sources IS illegal, so anyone who does it is laying themselves open to legal action.
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As far as I know a recording group or company could invoke a writ which is granted by a court, would technically the Police could come round and seize your equipment and any infringing copies, but not something you could be arrested for (unless you're counterfeiting) - but I might be wrong on this, so will bow to your knowledge of the subject.
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Originally Posted by scastle
I would be interested to know if there is actually *proof* not just statements by the RIAA (who seem to be busy telling everyone that if users are free to do what they want with PCs the whole of America will go bankrupt) that p2p downloads have actually harmed sales . I have seen an article online (which I can't currently find the link for) that says this is not the case (CD sales in 2002 were almost the same as 1992)..
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This is a moot point, I agree. There is evidence as I eluded to earlier in this thread that P2P'ers in general buy more music than non P2P'ers. There is also research that says this is not the case - as ever, it's all in who you ask and the questions you ask them I guess. As a matter of fact, there were more albums sold in the UK in 2003 than ever before - but single sales were down. This is not the case, however, in most other markets, particularly Asia which has a P2P culture that is, for want of a better word, rampant.
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Originally Posted by Graham
Hmm, would it be cynical to suggest a conflict of interests??
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I think it is a little, especially as Vivendi were one of the first groups to see the marketing opportunities in P2P networks - but I take your point. As mentioned earlier, unlike in the US, the EU Copyright Directive has urged leniency for fair use of such systems - which overall I would agree with.
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Originally Posted by kronas
i know about the production time the effort, the mixing, the directing of music, the hours of time spent building a good sounding track, the hours spent creating the lyrics, getting them in song with the artist, manafacturing etc.
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And the rest! The millions spent on marketing, logistics, retailers' margins, royalties for composers and performers.... When you download a track you are not just hitting the music company, you're affecting the guy who works behind the counter in HMV, the guys in manufacturing plants, the suppliers of the manufacturing plant, the guys who drive the CDs to the stores, and so on. They say there is no such thing as a victimless crime, and they are right.
Your problem is that you do not see the bigger picture. All you see is Kronas downloading the odd track now and then. But there are millions of Kronases around the world, and it naive to suggest that these lost Pounds have no effect. You are also, by using things like Kazaa, putting the money in someone elses pocket (the people who make the software, advertising etc) who are then denying the same people who are due it, any such payment for you ripping off their work.
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Originally Posted by kronas
so what if music is downloaded, i already publicly stated if you download and dont buy then its wrong.
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You've also said that you have done just that.
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Originally Posted by kronas
i dont have a virgin megastore here.
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Pedant.
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Originally Posted by kronas
hot air.
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Fact. I don't make the rules, I'm only telling you what they are. The laws are made through the normal governmental process. If you don't like them complain to your MP.
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Originally Posted by kronas
 and your telling me everyone else does that ? your telling me you have done that |
No, I'm telling what the law says. Are you an anarchist?
I've already said that it might not be as morally wrong to download music you would buy. I have already said that P2P can be a marketing device (in fact there is now a very good legal one for music, and many more designed for remote business working). But I am only reporting the rules, you choose what to do with them at your own risk. Just like I know what the speed limit on the motorway is, and if I choose to exceed it then I know I might get nicked. Simple.
What I don't like is people who try to justify their actions with lame arguments - you're breaching someone's copyright, however you might dress it up. It doesn't matter whether you buy the album in the end or not in the eyes of the law.
At least be man enough to say what you do without trying to make excuses for your actions - I'd have some respect for that.
By the way, the BPI are at your front door now
