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Originally Posted by punky
Pardon my attitude in my post, but i've tried being nice to you, and asking you to do the same.
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You have not "tried to be nice", you have dodged, obfuscated, evaded, generalised and skirted points instead of engaging in debate. Every time I point this out, however, you complain "can we stay on topic" and "stop talking about me" as if *I* am the one in the wrong!
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i'd be more concerned about evidence. I'm not trying to brainwash anyone.
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Unlike, say, the Bush Administration? (Saddam has WMDs, Saddam has links to Al Qa'eda, Saddam has links to September 11th, Saddam is a threat to the USA...!)
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You know, staying on topic might not be a bad idea? Just a thought.
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What a great idea? What were we talking about? Oh yes, Michael Moore's films. Hasn't he just produced one about the September 11th attacks? Something about Bush invading Iraq on the back of it? That is *definitely* off topic, isn't it...?
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I'll defend my beliefs, but never try and impose them on people.
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Does Moore do this, though? He's stating an opinion. He's not putting a gun to people's heads and saying *this is how it is*!
He's also not calling people "unpatriotic" for questioning the Republican/ Conservative/ All-American/ Bush/ Mom's Apple Pie line...!
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Where did I say Moore tries to do this? Cites?
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Where did *I* say *you* said Moore tries to do this? Oh, I didn't. But you were talking about anti-Moore sites which *do* claim this.
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Moore produced the film *he* wanted to without having to pander to someone else's idea of what should be in it!
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Yeah, and having millions in corporate sponsership helps doesn't it? Wilson also doesn't have the luxury to sue a poor, struggling, independent magazine because he was a bad editor.
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Is that a taste of sour grapes I detect? Still, I'm sure that's off topic.
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Wilson has never indicated he made the film anything other than what he wanted.
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Oh, of course! Well obviously, then, it couldn't have been anything else!
I mean, you start making a film called "Moore Hates America" and end up with a film of which half is suddenly "America's A Wonderful Place" and it's *clearly* the film he wanted to make in the first place
Anyway, that's got to be off topic, too.
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the fact that he is/was republican has no relevence on wether he killed his intern or not. And it isn't more complicated. [...]
This is off topic of course,
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It is? Again you claim "off topic" when we're talking about Michael Moore, this time about those that attack him. Odd definition of "off topic" you have.
And I think it *is* slightly more complicated than you wish to portray:
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Either way, the case is closed, everyone is happy.
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"Everyone is happy"??? That has to take the record for the most ridiculously sweeping generalisation you've come out with yet!
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I believe all it takes is a call to the cororoner's office, with one new piece of evidence or angle on the case. And given the coroners history, it shouldn't be too hard i'd think.
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Pardon me if I suggest that this seems incredibly naiive. It is not simply a matter of "all it taking" is a call with "one new piece of evidence or angle on the case", it also takes an act of will on the part of the Coroner to consider that that "evidence or angle" is valid enough to re-open a case (about which, of course, "everyone is happy"!)
Curiously enough, however, Berkland's supervisor, Dr. Gary Cumberland was investigated for donating heavily (and possibly beyond federal contribution limits) to Joe Scarborough's election campaigns. Not that I'm implying any connection, of course...!!!
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Obviously not questionable enough to concern the deceased person's family.
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The same people who have strong Republican connections and have now *removed* practically all trace of Lori Klausutis from their websites?
http://www.truthout.org/docs_01/01.07B.Klausutis.3.htm
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Or anyone in the coroners office.
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The one supervised by someone who contributed heavily to the Republicans?
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Or in the state (I think, although I could be wrong, you don't have to connected with a report to object to and and re-open it, so long as you have some valid evidence.
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Evidence which has to be presented to and evaluated by...? I'll give you three guesses...
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If you are going to use careless wording (either accidentally or with deliberate intent to confuse or obfuscate) then I will point that out too.
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I've already said, can we discuss Moore and BFC, and not me?
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I am not discussing *you* I am discussing your debating *technique*.
Again, I reiterate: "If you are going to use careless wording (either accidentally or with deliberate intent to confuse or obfuscate) then I will point that out too."
You stop doing it, I'll stop doing it.
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He avoided Wilson long before Wilson said what the title of his movie would be.
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Cites?
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Now I know i'm as bad as you for reciprocating it, but I think it's high time we start trying to keep these posts on topic. I've indicated what points you've made that are nothing to do with Moore directly or BFC. That includes: me, wether Scarbough is a murderer (but not what Moore said about him, or what he said about Moore), Wilson, unless it has some direct link with Moore, etc.
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Thank you very much for your opinions on what you consider to be "off topic" in this thread. However pardon me if I keep my own counsel about what is relevant to the discussion because our views seem to diverge somewhat!!
(PS What does Spielberg and Schindler's List have to do with Moore or BFC? Just asking...!)