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Originally Posted by punky
I have always tried to have been nice to you back in the face of such agressive sarcasm and derision. I do have a limit though.
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So do I. When someone says "it isn't my style." and "I'll just tut and shake my head, and move on." and then blatantly contradicts themselves, I'm going to point this out!
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But Moore has *NEVER* said *HE* "hates Americans"! This is something which *others* have said about him.
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He says a lot of things. It is hard to find quotes without knowing the exact words.
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I would have thought "Moore" and "I hate Americans" shouldn't be too hard to find (unless you're overwhelmed by all those sites that *claim* he says that when he may not actually done so!)
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Something coming from a biased or unbiased source doesn't dictate wether it is true or not. Merely the amount of spin. Most people have an agenda. Moore has an agenda, does that mean you aren't to trust him either?
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You are the one who said that "Moore has a long history of massaging the evidence to fit the thesis." but surely that doesn't dictate whether it's true or not either, does it?
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I do the best I can to find stuff to back up what I say. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter to me.
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Well pardon me if it *does* matter to me!
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I believe what I believe.
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Fine, that's your choice, but I'm not going to accept it just for that reason alone.
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If I was trying to recruit an army, i'd be more concerned about evidence. I'm not trying to brainwash anyone.
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Unlike, say, the Bush Administration? (Saddam has WMDs, Saddam has links to Al Qa'eda, Saddam has links to September 11th, Saddam is a threat to the USA...!)
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I'll defend my beliefs, but never try and impose them on people.
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Does Moore do this, though? He's stating an opinion. He's not putting a gun to people's heads and saying *this is how it is*!
He's also not calling people "unpatriotic" for questioning the Republican/ Conservative/ All-American/ Bush/ Mom's Apple Pie line...!
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Wilson and Moore aren't even in the same ballpark. Wilson is still producing the film he wants to, albeit even if he has to push another angle, he'd rather not.
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You're right, they're not in the same ballpark. Moore produced the film *he* wanted to without having to pander to someone else's idea of what should be in it!
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Ah, now we're back with the "he started it" arguments...
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Well of course Moore started it  If he didn't we'd have nothing to talk about?
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Now try reading that comment again *in context*
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I kind of thought you'd bring up the fact he was a republican Congressman. Wether it was deliberate to try make people think of Gary Conduit and government conspiracies, I don't know. I didn't think it was relevent what his job was so I left it out. I didn't want anyone to prejudice him because he is was in office.
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Of course I'm bringing up that point because it's more than a little relevant! It was not that he was "in office" it was that he was a *Republican* ie one of the people that Moore "attacks". As I also pointed out, it's a little more complicated than the somewhat simplistic view you presented which seemed to be "Moore has a go at this ordinary bloke because he said something criticising him".
That was a figure of speech! I just didn't want anyone jumping up and down and shouting "but that's not 'innocent until proven guilty' nyer, nyer, nyer!"
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The coroner signed the death as a heart attack. No inquest, no arrests. There was no evidence that the coroner had been influenced either. Although according to that site his reputation isn't that solid.
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"Isn't that solid" is being rather charitable, from my reading!
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Everyone seems to be happy, including her family. I'm sure if there was the case would have easily been re-opened.
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I don't think it's that easy to re-open such a case. There would be lots of objections and, IMO, possibly political pressure applied to deter such a thing from happening.
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Well that is what the coroner said, and that makes it good enough for me. If someone has some credible evidence that the coroner may have been influenced by Scarbough, then by all means, i'll re-evaluate my thinking.
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But there probably won't be such evidence. The point is that what the coroner said was questionable and the circumstances were dubious.
Whether this equates to "murder" or not, I don't know, but to me it's not as cut-and-dried as you seem to want to think.
You're welcome.
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if you are going to scrutinise the semantics of everything I say that closely then i'm not going to bother to even engage it. I don't have time or the inclination to even proof read my posts, let alone worry about semantics. Remember what I said before, can we please debate Moore, not me?
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Again I point out that if you are going to engage in sweeping generalisations when you try to debate, I am going to point them out. If you are going to use careless wording (either accidentally or with deliberate intent to confuse or obfuscate) then I will point that out too.
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He said he'd debate anyone. I'm desperately trying to find the quote where. I can even see the video in my head, he is on stage in a chair with like 4 other people.
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And someone stands up and accuses him of "Hating America". Again I point out that this is hardly the way to start a resonable debate.