[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Graham

Now this is something that gives me problems. If the member states can't agree on something *why* should the EU Commission be able to force something through? Surely the default or fallback position should be "no" rather than "yes"?

You raise a very good point, there.

That's the *USA* complaining about breaches of Free Trade and WTO rules?? The people who were going to ban *cashmere*?!

LOL, yep. The same country which has itself breached WTO rules, the same country which imposed steel tarrifs, and so on.

Originally Posted by towny

In our recent 'voting intentions' thread there was a little discussion about the lack of honest discussion on the genuine pros and cons of EU membership. I thought I'd resurrect that train of thought here because this morning's Independent is making my blood boil ... under the headline 'The £23bn question', the entire front page is given over to what is, frankly, scaremongering. Or rather it would be scaremongering if it wasn't such a blatant tissue of lies, half-truths and spin. I have seen better written defences of Europe from 'A' level geography students. Here's just one of the priceless nuggets of nonsense:


What the &*£$ # ?

The Convention was drawn up by the Council of Europe, a completely different organisation that pre-dates the EU. The Convention is adhered to by the EU, it does not belong to the EU. Withdrawing from the EU would in no way involve withdrawing from the Convention. And in any case, the Convention is now enshrined within our own Law. Repealing it would be a matter entirely separate from any concerns about which international organisations we belong to.

Honestly, the anti-Europe camp have been accused of scaremongering and lies but this takes some beating. I'm not proposing to re-type the entire article here (I am supposed to be at work ) but I would urge anyone with an interest in the whole Europe debate to get a look at it.

This is a sad day for rational debate.

That article sounds ridiculous

Especially the part you mention about the European Convention on Human Rights

The scaremongering sounds as bad as some of the anti-EU scaremongering bandied about by people.

Why is it that neither side seems capable of a rational debate on the pros & cons? Stupid.

Originally Posted by towny

Ironic perhaps that the Independent went tabloid-only a couple of weeks ago ... Must be a state of mind or something.

LOL. Although I think they prefer the term "compact"