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Originally Posted by BBKing
I presume then that the reintroduction of capital punishment is next? I'm pretty sure that a majority of people in the UK would support it, but it doesn't mean it's a good idea.
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Whilst there is still a bare majority for the death penalty in the UK (55% according to a Gallup Poll for the Guardian after the Sarah Payne, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman murders) it was found that most of those in favour are in the higher age brackets (50-60+) whereas those under 40 were mostly against it. This reflects strongly against 76% being in favour only a decade before.
However this is IMO, frankly, a red herring and off topic for a discussion about Europe, so I'll not address it further here.
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if it is explained what the UK will lose by being outside the EU, fewer people would support the UKIP, which has been extremely successful in getting its message across, because it has, er, one message.
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But the difference between the votes in the Local and European Elections suggest that people do *not* believe that the UK will "lose" by being outside the EU (but still *within* some form of Free Trade area which is what UKIP is talking about).
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Given that the UKIP has today said that they feel no need to work with the European Parliament and in fact want to wreck it, I suggest that anyone who voted for them has voted not to be represented in a democratic institution, and I can't recall anywhere else that has ever happened.
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I think these people have voted, rather, not to be *part* of that institution and not subject to its rulings and decisions. That is somewhat different from what you suggest.
I also think Kilroy's comment about "wrecking" the European Parliament was an ill-adviced off the cuff joke rather than a serious suggestion.
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I think we need large scale co-operation between nations to provide a balance. In this case, Europe-wide media ownership laws to ensure diversity of media.
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I think this is something that can quite easily be handled by national governments, rather that needing some pan-european body to "control" Murdoch's empire.
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Incidentally, I recommend everyone read the UKIP website - the number of times they mention 'co-operation with the United States' on the defence section of their website rather precludes anyone opposing the Iraq war from supporting them.
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Why? For instance they say "A self-governing Britain will work constructively with allies in North America, Europe and elsewhere, to the extent that this is in British interests. We are not isolationists, but nor do we envisage ourselves as 'world policemen'. British forces have a valuable peacekeeping role, but only in areas of strategic concern or historical ties to Britain."
Now that's somewhat different from the spin you seem to want to put on it which appears to suggest that UKIP would have blithely gone along with the US invasion as Blair did.
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They also consider rail privatisation as the consequence of EU membership - a fallacy, rail privatisation was a Tory policy to get the railways off the Government's books.
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Actually what they say is...
"Some of the most controversial aspects of rail privatisation, such as the creation of Railtrack as a private monopoly, were introduced to comply with EU rules"
... which, whether it is true or not (I can't prove or deny this at the moment from the searches I've done) is, again, different from what you claim.
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They stop short of blaming the EU for France beating England last night, but it's surely only a matter of time.
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Resorting to ridiculous statements like this does not help the credibility of your arguments, nor does, seemingly, hoping that nobody will actually rise to your challenge of checking the UKIP site to verify your statements.
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Practically every policy they have depends on spending a vapourous 'Independence Dividend' that would come from EU withdrawal. Hmm...
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Sorry, how much do we pay nett into the EU each year?
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Practically every failure, real or imaginary is the fault of the EU, even when it isn't.
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Or, at least, it seems that's what you want people to think.
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GM food is an EU policy? Monsanto is a US corporation, last time I looked.
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Which has precisely *what* to do with the price of fish?
"Green Party MEP Patricia McKenna today hit out at retiring Irish EU Commissioner David Byrne for being more concerned with protecting the interests of multinational companies than the interests of consumers. Referring to today's decision by the European Commission to lift the ban on selling genetically modified sweetcorn in Europe, she said Mr Byrne has been central to development of the EU's policy on GMOs."
http://www.politics.ie/modules.php?n...ticle&sid=5130
Now if that's not a result of EU policy, what *IS* it the result of??
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So you can see, plenty to aim at. Why on earth neither Labour or the Tories picked them apart I don't know. Still, their loss.
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Probably because if they aimed at the targets you've just pointed out, they'd end up very wide of the mark and looking foolish?