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**Chris** · 14-06-2004, 12:52

I think you're right ... this morning's papers have some intresting commentary and analysis. One of them talks about the massive gap between Labour's heart-of-Europe rhetoric and the reailty - which is that 'under [Tony Blair's] watch, Europe has become even more unpopular than it was in the days of the Major and Thatcher governments' (can't remember which paper, I had to read so many of them this morning

)

The Guardian has been a priceless read today, spluttering about the anti-European reasults from virtually every page. They even put a Polly Toynbee opinion on the front. There is no doubt that the Guardian believes the British electorate cannot be trusted to deliver the 'correct' result.

The most tiresome thing about post-election inquests is how everybody who has done badly is so keen to talk instead about how everybody else has done even worse. It is here more than anywhere that the saying 'there are lies, damn lies and statistics' is shown to be true. Often I wonder whether the politicians are looking at the same set of results as me (or each other for that matter).

My own 'take' on this is that UKIP is the 'winner' here and the Lib Dems, if they are ever to hope to form a Government, need to realise that their raving Euro-enthusiasm is, like many of their 'policies' something they will need to re-think carefully. If they don't, all they will ever be is a recipient of the protest votes of traditional Tory (or Labour) supporters who can't bring themselves to vote for 'the other lot'.

As for the Tories and Labour, they have both done badly. I don't think this vote is a protest against Iraq and domestic failure - the British electorate is more sophisticated than that, and becoming more so - in both cases it is a vote against their policies and/or actions towards Europe.

The lesson for the Tories is clear - they need to become an avowedly Euro-sceptic party and weed out the Europhiles in the same way Neil Kinnock weeded out the Militant Tendency in the 1980s. Europhile sniping and carping helped bring down the last Tory Government and will do them no favours in the future.

EDIT

I voted 'they should listen'. I was tempted to vote 'they will never listen' but the fact is, Labour was, not such a long time ago, campaigning for outright withdrawl. Opinions on Europe do change.

14-06-2004, 12:52	#2
Chris Trollsplatter Cable Forum Team Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North of Watford Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests Posts: 38,300	Re: The European Elections I think you're right ... this morning's papers have some intresting commentary and analysis. One of them talks about the massive gap between Labour's heart-of-Europe rhetoric and the reailty - which is that 'under [Tony Blair's] watch, Europe has become even more unpopular than it was in the days of the Major and Thatcher governments' (can't remember which paper, I had to read so many of them this morning ) The Guardian has been a priceless read today, spluttering about the anti-European reasults from virtually every page. They even put a Polly Toynbee opinion on the front. There is no doubt that the Guardian believes the British electorate cannot be trusted to deliver the 'correct' result. The most tiresome thing about post-election inquests is how everybody who has done badly is so keen to talk instead about how everybody else has done even worse. It is here more than anywhere that the saying 'there are lies, damn lies and statistics' is shown to be true. Often I wonder whether the politicians are looking at the same set of results as me (or each other for that matter). My own 'take' on this is that UKIP is the 'winner' here and the Lib Dems, if they are ever to hope to form a Government, need to realise that their raving Euro-enthusiasm is, like many of their 'policies' something they will need to re-think carefully. If they don't, all they will ever be is a recipient of the protest votes of traditional Tory (or Labour) supporters who can't bring themselves to vote for 'the other lot'. As for the Tories and Labour, they have both done badly. I don't think this vote is a protest against Iraq and domestic failure - the British electorate is more sophisticated than that, and becoming more so - in both cases it is a vote against their policies and/or actions towards Europe. The lesson for the Tories is clear - they need to become an avowedly Euro-sceptic party and weed out the Europhiles in the same way Neil Kinnock weeded out the Militant Tendency in the 1980s. Europhile sniping and carping helped bring down the last Tory Government and will do them no favours in the future. EDIT I voted 'they should listen'. I was tempted to vote 'they will never listen' but the fact is, Labour was, not such a long time ago, campaigning for outright withdrawl. Opinions on Europe do change.