[Neil]

Originally Posted by Neil

I'm not sure what I am doing wrong here....

1) All companies offer discounts/perks/benefits to staff.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

No they don't Neil.

Yes they do-ever worked for a company that didn't give it's staff a dickount of some sort on it's given product?

Originally Posted by Neil

2) All companies should discount all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

As far as your concerned maybe....

My bad-that should have read-"All companies should document all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties-it's still a fact.

Originally Posted by Neil

3) If documented correctly by a company, in the case of an outsourcing deal, when TUPE is applied, those staff will retain all those (properly documented) benefits/perks/discounts.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

How exactly do you retain a perk or benefit offered by a company you don't work for?

By documenting it properly in the first instance of course.

Originally Posted by Neil

4) If not documented properly by a company, then the staff who will be outsourced will lose their benefits.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Yes. And?

Ok-I will say it again....

The fact is that ntl have not protected their staff by documenting their accociate package properly, & now those people being outsourced will lose that.

Originally Posted by Neil

What part of this am I not making clear?

Originally Posted by Orangebird

It's all clear Neil, just entirely unrealistic

Unrealistic to expect ntl to protect the interests of their staff you mean?

Originally Posted by Neil

OB/Nem, I suggest that you tell all the employees who are bing outsourced that there's a perfectly good reason that they will now lose those discounts/perks/benefits, even though they are being TUPE'd, but everything that is documented will be honoured by their new employers (Fujitsu)

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Neil, there are associates employed by ntl that don't receive the same perks (ie digi services) as other associates still employed by ntl purely because of the on/off-net situation.

Not relevant, you cannot lose out on what you never had to start with.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Why should employees who no longer work for ntl get the perks that those that still work for ntl cannot get for one reason or another?

Becasue ntl should have documented their associate package correctly, that's why.

Originally Posted by Neil

]I think OB & Nem-sorry, but you are both missing the point.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

No, I'm totally clear on what you're saying Neil - I just think it's a crock.

You are entitled to your opinion-but that's what it is-an opinion, mine is a fact.

Originally Posted by Neil

TUPE is there to protect employees in the event of an outsource, in these people's case they will lose their freebies because ntl did not write it into their contracts-fact.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

UPE is there to make sure that the employees contractual rights belonging to their job are not lost or compromised.

Why was it not written into their contracts if it being offered to them as part of their overall package then??

Originally Posted by Orangebird

A perk is not a right. It's as it says, A PERK. How many time does it have to be explained to you why the perks are not written into the contract? Why do you ignore any post that might give reasonable and acceptable explanation to your questions?

But it is offered to staff as part of their overall package.

Originally Posted by Neil

Fujitsu will inherit the employees current salary/holiday entitlement/length of service, etc (assuming they have been properly documented!)

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Correct.

I know.

Originally Posted by Neil

So.....

2 questions......

Why should they lose their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

Why are they losing their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

Originally Posted by Orangebird

For the last time - BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE EMPLOYED BY NTL TO RECEIVE THESE - AND THEY'RE A PERK, NOT A CONTRACTUAL RIGHT!!!!!

That's where you are mistaken-When I used to work for IBM, I received certain benefits that the company I was TUPE'd into didn't/doesn't offer, but I still get these benefits as they were part OF TUPE.

So no-you don't have to work for a particular company to receive previous benefits where TUPE is concerned, you are quite simply-mistaken.

Originally Posted by Neil

Family pack=£2 8.00 per month (currently!)=ÂÂà ‚£336.00 per year that these employees will be worse off through no fault of their own.

You may think that that 'is life', I do not happen to agree.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

And as I said earlier, the deal is not done yet - what the TUPE guys might be worse off with in one hand could be compensated in another.

That may be, but whatever happens, it looks like they will lose their assocaite package whgich is not fair.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

But I guess that possiblility doesn't suit your current agenda of sl4gging ntl off at every opportunity, does it?

No more than it suits your current/past agenda of defending them at every opportunity, no.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Question for you - if that's how YOU think it should be, answer me this question - how would you deal with the salaries as far as receiving taxable benefits go?

They should (as I have been saying from the start0 ) have all been documented in a professional manner, if they had-we wouldn't be having this 'conversation'

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Do you know of any legal, best practice way to tax an associates salary because of a benefit that the company who pays their salary doesn't provide????.....

Does the taxman know about the associate package? (He knew about mine as I told him, although Nicola Irvine from ntl actually told us that ntl wouldn't be disclosing it to the taxman-go figure.

If you pay tax on it (I'm sure you do), then you are entitled to keep it under TUPE, but it doesn't look like people will be able to keep it under TUPE, because of the way ntl documented it (or didn't)

But it's on the Intranet, so that's ok.