[Jerrek]

Why would I need to express to everyone else that I am proud of being British?
I know I'm proud to be British, what's it to anyone else?

If you can't find a need, then you wouldn't understand. It is a personal thing. You may not like it or approve, but respect the rights of others to be proud AND express it. I will likewise respect your right to hide your national identity.

So you'd have no problem if america had stood by and let europe become a Nazi superpower?
Or even under control of the Kaiser?

I was talking in general, and I believe it was quite clear. There are always exceptions, and those tend to come around a couple of times a century. So my question still stands. You haven't answered it.

A flag is just a flag, a song is just a song (a kiss is just a kiss)

Perhaps to a bacterium, but the human mind has the ability to form memories and associations. That is why something can have more meaning to others than to one person. And to me, a flag, song, and kiss can carry a whole lot more than just the act.


And Xaccers, you STILL haven't answered my two questions. How is singing and reciting a pledge brainwashing?

Jerrek, I mean this with the greatest of respect, can you not realise that other countries don't always do things the American way? We have our own ways of doing things!

So Russ, you're saying that it is only Americans that do these things? Ridiculous. Its been going on for centuries. It is done in Canada, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, China, Malaysia, South Africa, etc. It is hardly an American thing, but if you want to disagree, go ahead. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I heard a very good explaination of this on the radio some months ago.

If you are brought up to believe your way is the best way, you find it difficult to understand why other people don't also see how wonderful your way is.

I don't believe everything I hear on the radio, and I do not believe this is relevant to the discussion at hand.

This isn't about the best way. It is about expressing who you are. It is a personal opinion. It just so happens Americans and Canadians and the rest of the world except Europe seems to be more proud of their national heritage than you guys, and Europeans seem to have a major fit with that. For some reason.

Too many liberals have shouted and been heeded that we also should be ashamed of being British because we once had an empire and did some pretty horrible things.

Join the club. So were teh Spanish, Germans, Russians, Chinese, Americans, Canadians, etc. Everyone has some skeletons in their closet. It doesn't, however, change the fact that you may have made significant achievements.

People didn't want to offend the waves of Asian and Jamaican immigrants entering the country despite the fact that many of them were already more patriotic than some of the natives.

I couldn't give a damn if they feel offended. They can leave.

The History syllabus in schools changed a lot during the last 30 years, kids were no longer taught about Great Britain and its peoples achievements.

That is a shame. Its quite different here. We are taught of our achievements, AND, we are taught about the achievements of other nations, including Great Britain.

i know it has its faults no country is perfect and the US portrays itself as an 'almighty peacekeeping we are the best country in the world' i would call that arrogance.

But if France is doing it, it is OK.