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-   -   NHS set to take on more private treatment (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33684190)

martyh 28-12-2011 13:48
NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Quote:
NHS hospitals could earn up to half their income by treating private patients under plans announced by the Government.

The cap on income generated by private procedures is currently limited to a few percent, but that could rise to 49%.
Could this be the way to provide extra funding for the NHS or will it create a 2 tier system and increase waiting lists? .
Given that my wife has had her appointment with a back specialist cancelled and re appointed 3 times since march (the new appointment is for April 2012 ) i don't see how things can get worse under the present system and funding so if there will any extra income generated from performing more private procedures then it has to be a good thing imo

Stuart 28-12-2011 14:18
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
And the link for the story is http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml

martyh 28-12-2011 14:20
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35351707)
and mine .......sorry :blush:

http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16138189

Maggy 28-12-2011 16:20
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Oh I think it will lead to a two tier system.:erm:

Damien 28-12-2011 16:26
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Wouldn't this be at the expense of NHS services? Even if they increase staff to deal with the demand from private patients there will be a finite amount of equipment and space within the hospital...

nomadking 28-12-2011 16:41
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35351707)
Not that anybody will read it and take note of the contents.:rolleyes:
Quote:
Foundation hospitals are part of the NHS but have more freedom than non-foundation NHS hospitals to decide how their services are run.
They can retain their surpluses and borrow to invest in new services.

It was in 2004 that the Labour Government announced the first NHS hospitals to be given foundation status. The majority of NHS trusts now have foundation status.
Quote:
The extra revenue is ploughed back into the hospital, allowing it to improve care and conduct research.

It hopes to increase its private income by 40 per cent to £62million over the next two years following the opening of a £6million private wing.

Due to its long track history of working with the private sector, the Marsden already has the highest cap in the NHS – it is allowed to earn up to 30.7 per cent of its income from private patients.
So, it was a Labour idea and at least one hospital is earning 30% of its income from private work and then spending it for the benefit of ALL.:rolleyes:

Hugh 28-12-2011 16:52
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35351773)
Wouldn't this be at the expense of NHS services? Even if they increase staff to deal with the demand from private patients there will be a finite amount of equipment and space within the hospital...
Nope - completely separate, but any profit from the private side has to be ploughed back into the foundation - no shareholders.

Some Q&A from the Times 27th December (behind paywall)
Quote:
Will NHS patients get an inferior service if their hospital starts attracting private patients?
They shouldn’t. The Royal Marsden is currently allowed to take up to 31 per cent of its income from private activity, yet is rated one of the best NHS providers. In fact, the handful of trusts that raise more than 2 per cent of their income from private patients are among the best in the country for NHS quality of care; they tend to be the most innovative.

But what’s to stop my doctor seeing someone with a big fat wallet ahead of me?
The doctor already does: he sees the rich in his private clinic, where he works in his spare time. This apartheid is invisible, because most NHS consultants do their private work at private clinics, then shuttle back to do their NHS hours at a general hospital. It’s arguable that consultants would be more efficient if they could see all their patients on one site: one top obstetrician is known to ride his motorbike between several different places.

So, is the chap with the big wallet going to be within spitting distance in the bed next to me?
He’s more likely to be down the corridor in a private ward. Hospital trusts can use the money they raise from private work to improve their private facilities.

What about NHS-trained nurses and NHS equipment? Can they be used for private treatment?
The NHS Constitution says that “public funds for healthcare will be devoted solely to the benefit of the people that the NHS serves”. It is presumed that private wings would be staffed by a dedicated team, just as private maternity units in teaching hospitals have dedicated midwives. The same goes for the equipment.

What safeguards will there be to maintain the service for NHS patients?
The Government says that NHS patients will retain all of their rights, including the right to start consultant treatment within 18 weeks of referral. GP commissioning groups will have a new duty to ensure that their patients are aware of this right and that they get seen promptly. Many GPs would create an unholy row if they thought that their patients were getting a raw deal.

Does this mean hospitals will be able to profit at the expense of the NHS?
No. All proceeds from private patient and non-NHS activity must be re-invested in the hospital trust. Trusts can choose whether to use that money on equipment, research, developing private services or their NHS services. But they cannot reap a profit.

Could hospitals drain the NHS to finance their private work?
Under the Health and Social Care Bill, foundation trusts will have to produce separate accounts for NHS and private work. Using NHS resources to subsidise private activity would breach the NHS Constitution.

mertle 28-12-2011 16:55
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Americanisation of NHS I call this.

I doubt 1p goes back in to NHS fear more will die. We bound to see patients pushed back likely now wont get the treatment healthcare due to constant private queue jumpers. I would hazard guess some illnesses going to be cronic big issue with private patients clogging the system so bad none private patients wont get treat. Would say it will become the new postcode lottery live in area afluent with people able to go private and you will be lucky to see specialist.

The numbers quite frankly stupid should be dependent of the situation nobody with none private health insurance who cant afford to do it should be denied or DELAYED for treatment.

Let the person go to private hospital if they want private privilaged treatment. If there beds available and specialist free then by all means let them be private but not at expense of others. Queue jumping should only be for the high risk patients who need URGENT treatment not who got the fatest wallet.

martyh 28-12-2011 16:59
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle (Post 35351800)
Americanisation of NHS I call this.

I doubt 1p goes back in to NHS fear more will die. We bound to see patients pushed back likely now wont get the treatment healthcare due to constant private queue jumpers. I would hazard guess some illnesses going to be cronic big issue with private patients clogging the system so bad none private patients wont get treat. Would say it will become the new postcode lottery live in area afluent with people able to go private and you will be lucky to see specialist.

The numbers quite frankly stupid should be dependent of the situation nobody with none private health insurance who cant afford to do it should be denied or DELAYED for treatment.

Let the person go to private hospital if they want private privilaged treatment. If there beds available and specialist free then by all means let them be private but not at expense of others. Queue jumping should only be for the high risk patients who need URGENT treatment not who got the fatest wallet.
If you read Hugh's post it shows that the private side of the NHS will be separate from the NHS side just the income from the private part will be shared

Hugh 28-12-2011 17:09
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Let's not let facts spoil a prejudice....

Stuart 28-12-2011 17:18
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle (Post 35351800)
Americanisation of NHS I call this.

I doubt 1p goes back in to NHS fear more will die. We bound to see patients pushed back likely now wont get the treatment healthcare due to constant private queue jumpers. I would hazard guess some illnesses going to be cronic big issue with private patients clogging the system so bad none private patients wont get treat. Would say it will become the new postcode lottery live in area afluent with people able to go private and you will be lucky to see specialist.

The numbers quite frankly stupid should be dependent of the situation nobody with none private health insurance who cant afford to do it should be denied or DELAYED for treatment.

Let the person go to private hospital if they want private privilaged treatment. If there beds available and specialist free then by all means let them be private but not at expense of others. Queue jumping should only be for the high risk patients who need URGENT treatment not who got the fatest wallet.

They've been doing something similar at the Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital for years. The hospital had two private wards. They apparently made quite a substantial profit which was then ploughed back into the NHS facilities.

mertle 28-12-2011 17:36
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35351804)
If you read Hugh's post it shows that the private side of the NHS will be separate from the NHS side just the income from the private part will be shared
Do you really believe it martyh can we believe anything MP says anymore. In theory every penny could get more nurses, doctors and specialist to offset the private healthcare so not causing issues. Lets see another way do all car tax raised goes back spent on road management nope. Unless EVERY penny is put in NOT one penny is reduced by the government it MAY its slim may work NHS becomes great.

That where the lala land and reality steps in it wont money will be to replace the government funding so reducing burden to them. We will see no more nurses, doctors, specialist or beds or lets say there wont be enough numbers to offset the private treatment. We will see those queues become longer for high private intake treatment. We will likely see many not getting the care the should off because private healthcare overburdened the queues for that sector specialist care. It will FAIL then we will see the anger by the people that NHS has been destroyed.

MP's notorious liars NHS not safe in tories hands they dismantling it brick by brick.

Just because worked on one hospital it wont work everywhere. Hats off to Marsden for being sensible but not all hospitals have management who will likely be so.

It will be abused will cause more issues than what it solves..

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35351813)
Let's not let facts spoil a prejudice....
49% of NHS this will place the NHS in meltdown but hell lets not question things accept every word decision this government done its not fallible eh HUGH.

Queues since this lot got in power already breaking point many had there appointments cancelled 2 and 3 times. Thats before the deludge of private health patients clog it.

How long HUGH before your GP sit with you advices if you dont get private medical insurance you wont see a specialist. If some posters cant see thats the future then they need to get there head out of the sand.

martyh 28-12-2011 17:40
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle (Post 35351828)
Do you really believe it martyh can we believe anything MP says anymore. In theory every penny could get more nurses, doctors and specialist to offset the private healthcare so not causing issues. Lets see another way do all car tax raised goes back spent on road management nope. Unless EVERY penny is put in NOT one penny is reduced by the government it MAY its slim may work NHS becomes great.

That where the lala land and reality steps in it wont money will be to replace the government funding so reducing burden to them. We will see no more nurses, doctors, specialist or beds or lets say there wont be enough numbers to offset the private treatment. We will see those queues become longer for high private intake treatment. We will likely see many not getting the care the should off because private healthcare overburdened the queues for that sector specialist care. It will FAIL then we will see the anger by the people that NHS has been destroyed.

MP's notorious liars NHS not safe in tories hands they dismantling it brick by brick.

Just because worked on one hospital it wont work everywhere. Hats off to Marsden for being sensible but not all hospitals have management who will likely be so.

It will be abused will cause more issues than what it solves..

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------



49% of NHS this will place the NHS in meltdown but hell lets not question things accept every word decision this government done its not fallible eh HUGH.

Queues since this lot got in power already breaking point many had there appointments cancelled 2 and 3 times. Thats before the deludge of private health patients clog it.

How long HUGH before your GP sit with you advices if you dont get private medical insurance you wont see a specialist. If some posters cant see thats the future then they need to get there head out of the sand.
Again if you read Hugh's post it will tell you that

Quote:
Under the Health and Social Care Bill, foundation trusts will have to produce separate accounts for NHS and private work. Using NHS resources to subsidise private activity would breach the NHS Constitution.


MP's and hospitals cannot just do as they want ,it is a matter of law and would require an act of parliament to change that .Once again your predjudices have caused you to mis interpret the facts ....or just plain ignore them

nomadking 28-12-2011 17:44
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
It's was Labour that introduced it and initially without limits. If that wasn't privatising the NHS, why suddenly is it now?:rolleyes:

Hugh 28-12-2011 18:32
Re: NHS set to take on more private treatment
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mertle (Post 35351828)
Do you really believe it martyh can we believe anything MP says anymore. In theory every penny could get more nurses, doctors and specialist to offset the private healthcare so not causing issues. Lets see another way do all car tax raised goes back spent on road management nope. Unless EVERY penny is put in NOT one penny is reduced by the government it MAY its slim may work NHS becomes great.

That where the lala land and reality steps in it wont money will be to replace the government funding so reducing burden to them. We will see no more nurses, doctors, specialist or beds or lets say there wont be enough numbers to offset the private treatment. We will see those queues become longer for high private intake treatment. We will likely see many not getting the care the should off because private healthcare overburdened the queues for that sector specialist care. It will FAIL then we will see the anger by the people that NHS has been destroyed.

MP's notorious liars NHS not safe in tories hands they dismantling it brick by brick.

Just because worked on one hospital it wont work everywhere. Hats off to Marsden for being sensible but not all hospitals have management who will likely be so.

It will be abused will cause more issues than what it solves..

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------



49% of NHS this will place the NHS in meltdown but hell lets not question things accept every word decision this government done its not fallible eh HUGH.

Queues since this lot got in power already breaking point many had there appointments cancelled 2 and 3 times. Thats before the deludge of private health patients clog it.

How long HUGH before your GP sit with you advices if you dont get private medical insurance you wont see a specialist. If some posters cant see thats the future then they need to get there head out of the sand.
Well, you need to get your head out of somewhere, definitely...;)

Once again, you don't let facts spoil a rant.

The 49% isn't 49% of work, it's 49% of the total income of the foundation trust, which are completely different things.


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