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-   -   The state benefits system mega-thread. (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33692770)

nomadking 06-03-2021 13:07

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

The DWP sent Mr Graham reminders in September and October 2017 asking why he did not attend - but had no reply.
Benefit officers then carried out two "safeguarding visits" at his home on 16 and 17 October - again with no reply.
What else are they expected to do?
Where were the rest of the family?
He was ok for 10 months without benefits, and the real issue appears to be the bailiffs due to arrive.

Quote:

Errol weighed four-and-a-half stone when his body was found by bailiffs.
...
Errol retreated into the football memorabilia that might have paid off the bailiffs if he had thought to sell it.

Mr K 06-03-2021 14:22

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36073338)
What else are they expected to do?
Where were the rest of the family?
He was ok for 10 months without benefits, and the real issue appears to be the bailiffs due to arrive.

Maybe people aren't as clever as you and need help? Mental illness can be debilitating. Family aren't always there or able to help.
This is why we have a welfare state, it failed again and continues to fail many.

nomadking 06-03-2021 14:41

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36073341)
Maybe people aren't as clever as you and need help? Mental illness can be debilitating. Family aren't always there or able to help.
This is why we have a welfare state, it failed again and continues to fail many.

The family were there.
Quote:

“Errol was always good with his grandkids,” Alison says. “It felt as if he could distract himself with them.
Are the DWP expected to be mind-readers, and to award benefits without question, and for all eternity?

cimt 06-03-2021 15:45

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
So the DWP tried to make contact and he kept ignoring them, so they cancelled his payments. How is that the DWP fault? If he had been in touch with them and they cancelled then I could understand.

Did he not have a carer? Why did none of his family sort it out for him?

This is just typical government bashing. On this occasion, they did nothing wrong.

peanut 06-03-2021 15:55

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cimt (Post 36073344)
So the DWP tried to make contact and he kept ignoring them, so they cancelled his payments. How is that the DWP fault? If he had been in touch with them and they cancelled then I could understand.

Did he not have a carer? Why did none of his family sort it out for him?

This is just typical government bashing. On this occasion, they did nothing wrong.

Half and half. Some people just aren't capable to look after themselves for whatever reasons. Some masks all the signs and would never ask for help either. Sometimes no matter how loud you shout out for help, sometimes it just doesn't come. Some do fall between the cracks and it is sad. And this is a sad case all round.

Jaymoss 06-03-2021 16:54

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
To the unsympathetic who seem to think the DWP carry no blame

Man on benefits for metal illness goes quiet and does not turn up to meetings

They try to get in touch and still quiet

They pay 2 visits and get nothing

They stop his benefits

He dies

Surely the compassionate would see that there is obviously something seriously wrong here and instead of stopping benefits try every means necessary to get to the bottom of what was wrong. Including getting in touch with family or even call the police to check to see if there was an emergency.

Stopping someone with long term illnesses benefits makes it impossible to live surely no one would think "Oh he has to be ok then and won the lottery or something"

People with mental illness often ignore people do not answer doors and isolate themselves . It is a very common symptom. Not getting an answer at the door does not mean they must be ok and able to support themselves now

Maggy 06-03-2021 17:02

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36073341)
Maybe people aren't as clever as you and need help? Mental illness can be debilitating. Family aren't always there or able to help.
This is why we have a welfare state, it failed again and continues to fail many.

:tu:

---------- Post added at 16:02 ---------- Previous post was at 15:59 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36073347)
To the unsympathetic who seem to think the DWP carry no blame

Man on benefits for metal illness goes quiet and does not turn up to meetings

They try to get in touch and still quiet

They pay 2 visits and get nothing

They stop his benefits

He dies

Surely the compassionate would see that there is obviously something seriously wrong here and instead of stopping benefits try every means necessary to get to the bottom of what was wrong. Including getting in touch with family or even call the police to check to see if there was an emergency.

Stopping someone with long term illnesses benefits makes it impossible to live surely no one would think "Oh he has to be ok then and won the lottery or something"

People with mental illness often ignore people do not answer doors and isolate themselves . It is a very common symptom. Not getting an answer at the door does not mean they must be ok and able to support themselves now

:tu:

However those dealing in the area of social services are often overworked and underpaid with huge workloads of people needing care.

nomadking 06-03-2021 17:14

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36073347)
To the unsympathetic who seem to think the DWP carry no blame

Man on benefits for metal illness goes quiet and does not turn up to meetings

They try to get in touch and still quiet

They pay 2 visits and get nothing

They stop his benefits

He dies

Surely the compassionate would see that there is obviously something seriously wrong here and instead of stopping benefits try every means necessary to get to the bottom of what was wrong. Including getting in touch with family or even call the police to check to see if there was an emergency.

Stopping someone with long term illnesses benefits makes it impossible to live surely no one would think "Oh he has to be ok then and won the lottery or something"

People with mental illness often ignore people do not answer doors and isolate themselves . It is a very common symptom. Not getting an answer at the door does not mean they must be ok and able to support themselves now

There was a 10 month gap between stopping his benefits. The family supposedly knew nothing about any of it.


The onus is on the claimant to prove their claim, always has been.

Jaymoss 06-03-2021 18:07

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36073352)
There was a 10 month gap between stopping his benefits. The family supposedly knew nothing about any of it.


The onus is on the claimant to prove their claim, always has been.

and that when it is mental illness has always been wrong

In fact thinking about it it should always be on the DWP to prove people fit or unfit cuz otherwise people are treated guilty until proven innocent by the DWP

nomadking 06-03-2021 18:21

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36073357)
and that when it is mental illness has always been wrong

In fact thinking about it it should always be on the DWP to prove people fit or unfit cuz otherwise people are treated guilty until proven innocent by the DWP

So people can get a load of benefits if they just ignore the DWP?:rolleyes:

A key DWP philosophy is that being in work helps with feeling down. It was said he was ok, when with his grandkids. Therefore the "distraction" of being in work, should've helped.

Jaymoss 06-03-2021 18:32

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36073358)
So people can get a load of benefits if they just ignore the DWP?:rolleyes:

A key DWP philosophy is that being in work helps with feeling down. It was said he was ok, when with his grandkids. Therefore the "distraction" of being in work, should've helped.

And here we see someone with a total lack of understanding of mental illness

I bet you are the type of person who tells his down friends to "pull yourselves together"

nomadking 06-03-2021 19:10

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36073360)
And here we see someone with a total lack of understanding of mental illness

I bet you are the type of person who tells his down friends to "pull yourselves together"

Just "feeling down" is different and separate, from clinical depression.
It was the family who said he was ok when with others. That clearly demonstrates an ability to "pull himself together".
If he had avoided all contact with his family, that might be a different matter.

Jaymoss 06-03-2021 19:13

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36073367)
Just "feeling down" is different and separate, from clinical depression.
It was the family who said he was ok when with others. That clearly demonstrates an ability to "pull himself together".
If he had avoided all contact with his family, that might be a different matter.


Firstly no it does not clearly demonstrate anything this was only family and his grand kids. Plus he might have been acting ok another classic symptom of mental illness is hiding it from family and those close to you

The guy had obviously took a turn for the worse as he isolated himself long enough to die alone waiting to be found by the bailiffs

As I said you clearly have no idea about mental illness at all

I can only guess but the added stress of the review along with other factors triggered a worsening of his symptoms.

Mad Max 06-03-2021 19:15

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36073367)
Just "feeling down" is different and separate, from clinical depression.
It was the family who said he was ok when with others. That clearly demonstrates an ability to "pull himself together".
If he had avoided all contact with his family, that might be a different matter.

I agree with that, where were his family when they obviously knew he had mental problems, did they visit him much? Doesn't sound like it, terrible for this to have happened to the poor man.

Jaymoss 06-03-2021 19:17

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread.
 
End of the day the guy was clearly to sick to cope without benefits as he died without them so whatever anyone says the DWP stopping his benefits contributed to his death and the decision to stop them was wrong

It is one thing sanctioning the unemployed for not seeking work when they should but sanctioning the mentally ill is clearly dangerous


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