The state benefits system mega-thread.
 

http://news.sky.com/story/1072240/we...enefits-fairer

Today See's all the changes the government are bringing in, and yet again it will be the poor and the vulnerable.

And yet Nothing to hit the rich who can afford it, Mansion Tax, Garden Tax ( On the size of there garden, just like the Poll Tax). The rich can afford to pay in tax, then anyone else.

660.000 people that live in social housing will be hit each week by this Bedroom Tax, now there is even talk of a Granny Tax.

Its is not fair that the poor and vulnerable get hit constantly by this disgraceful government, an yet the rich can get everything they want to satisfy a sick government that just want to line there own pocket.

I can see ration books coming out next, what we are allow to buy and even with the poor, instead of money, they will get vouchers to take to a local store thats being paid by the governemnt, to get food.:mad::mad:

re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Benefit changes affect poor people because poor people claim benefits. This is not rocket science.

Rich people are paying vastly more tax now than they were 5 years ago, but this does not have any radical effect on them because they are rich. This, also, is not rocket science.

You could expropriate every rich man's bank account as they have done in Cyprus and share out the proceeds evenly among the whole population and it wouldn't cure poverty. In fact all it would do would harm the spending and earning potential of the very people who pay the most tax and therefore contribute the most to the benefits bill. If you want proof of this, take a look back at the old eastern bloc, where everyone was rewarded equally regardless of what they did. The result was not nations full of happy equal people. The result was nations full of impoverished, frightened people who eventually overthrew the system by force.

Some people are rich, some people are poor. That's life.

re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Found this for you Arthur https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=LVltOSC0JMQ

Re: Poor effected - The Rich not effected again - why?
 

flip side is they paying more tax because workers getting shafted though. What do they expect when they hold all the wealth.

Dont the top 10% own 90% uk wealth or something obscene stat.

Therefore they want the money then they should pay for it simples. Dont want pay highest tax then dont take 90% of the money. Better wages means less burden on themselves in taxes.

Motto these rich is you cannot both possess your cake and eat it. You either distribute your wealth to better wages more jobs result less reliance on welfare, or you pay taxes so government supports your weak wages and lack of private sector jobs. We cant do both what rich masters want we either go down the public sector jobs supported wages with them paying higher taxes to cover. They bite bullet give us jobs and the wages to cover the standard of living.

That crux issue this government not interested in educating these people some home truths.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

You're putting the cart before the horse. Frank Field made this argument at the end of the 90s but Liebour chose to open the immigration floodgates, depress wages as a result (wage levels being a function of supply and demand, just the same as everything else) and silence the non-working indigenous population with benefits. Now it's coming home to roost but the Left seems unable to recognise the contradiction at the heart of its argument. If you keep benefit levels up, then you simultaneously disincentivise a certain part of the population from working at all, while also subsidising low wages through the tax credit system.

IDS's reforms so far are aimed at making work more attractive than worklessness. They have also - slowly - begun to erode the real terms value of in-work benefits. We are on a very long haul here, but where we need to get to is a situation where welfare helps those that cannot help themselves and provides incentives to those that can, with a nudge in the right direction.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

but there are still only one job for every 5 unemployed where are they going to magically get all these jobs needed? where are they going to magically get all the smaller properties needed by families who want to move who can not afford the loss of housing benefit? Its ok giving them a nudge but for many there is nowhere for them to go after they are nudged or kicked as some feel it?

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

For the socialists amongst us that sentence should read "and forces people to work and support themselves against their will".

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

there are not the jobs to go around they are urinating in the wind so in effect you should add and forces people further and deeper into poverty too

Re: Poor effected - The Rich not effected again - why?
 

The actual figures (latest available) are Link

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Because when the markets pick up again and jobs become more plentiful people will be happy to give up benefits instead of staying on them because life is easier on benefits .

What most don't seem to understand is that the government accept that the recession is going to go on for a good few years more which means that the benefit bill will only rise and tax receipts will fall and borrowing will increase .IDS has to look at this and make sure we can afford a benefits system in 4,5,6 years time or however long it takes .The choice is a reduced benefit system for everyone now or practically no benefit system in 10yrs time

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

I find this one better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLNrLI3OBwg

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Jobs will be created as the economy recovers, and it will be those with the capital at their disposal that will be doing the job creating. In the meantime unemployment is already dropping steadily caused in large measure by a lot of people taking responsibility for themselves and becoming self employed.

The Left sniffs at many of these people and their efforts as 'non jobs', as if it is somehow shameful to choose work on almost any terms rather than worklessness and benefits. Nevertheless, as one of those self-employed people currently earning very little, I am confident that the groundwork I do now will pay dividends as the economy recovers. Of course I could rest on a sense of entitlement and decide to do stuff all until someone else takes responsibility for my life and creates me a job, but I'd rather not.

It's rotten for those riding the benefits wagon on the day the wheels finally fall off, but the day of reckoning was always coming. Those who set up the mess are mostly still in parliament and will be pleading for our votes in 2015 so they can 'rescue' us from the nasty Tories and their evil scheme to make the nation live within its means. I suggest we decline to give them what they want.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

but coalition not sorting it you think they are but aint.

The standard living too high this crux issue you got either drop it down or increase wages. Infact Chris osbourne just done oposite. Just anounced system keep ponzi housing scheme higher than ever. Moving few deck chairs on the titanic wont stop titanic hit the bottom sea. At some point we goto have government with bottle to tell rich the truth or crash our ponzi housing and capping rental charges.

Else only other way wages need to move up to support standard living. They think market forces will downgrade itself when its artificially being pumped. It wont therefore welfare will go up still at somepoint private sector will shed jobs as the demand wont be there. Any deleveraged of public spending takes money out of the economy its basic economics. Factor in the multiplyer and you tank the economy.

At some point osbourne will create that tipping point when jobs will get shed like wildfire. When it happens this country in trouble big trouble. welfare has always self righted when country thrives as jobs created. We have to solve pension issues and minimum wage problems to living wages. Later is major issue the pension crisis is been caused by bankers irresponsible speculating and brown raiding.

Agree labour was useless over this but they was and still ruled by idiots who support this neoliberal claptrap.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

I'm sorry Mertle but unreconstructed lefty hatred of those who have made a success of their lives is not going to fix anything. Some people are rich. That's life, so what?

We live in a capitalist economy with a fiat currency in which work results in wealth creation. Demanding that more of the existing wealth at the top of the pile is creamed off is not a sustainable solution. The sustainable solution is to get the people who are not working, doing work. This results in wealth creation and at the same time reduces a welfare bill that currently accounts for one third of government spending.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Let's see how 2013 goes down in the history books for Britain.
easy date to remember. it's got the unlucky number 13 in it.

I predict crime is going to become an epidemic.
I might move to the countryside and pop back in now and again.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Problem is the system not working yes wages and jobs need creating but at zero cost to government no point in creating minimum wages if that cant support our standard living.

Not against rich good luck. However small section who inherited the wealth who not wise with it.

There is huge problem with crony capitalism which eating itself like a cancer. That is very bad you would naive to think there nothing wrong. OIne selfish interests businesses only look short termism and bottom line profits to syphon off to top echelons or shareholders is bad business practice. Very bad for the economy as a whole.

They cant put head in sand expect government to support there low paid workforce and say hell not paying taxes either. Its atitude which will tank the economy.

We got ourselves in muddle and impasse. We dont like anger homeowners we dont want upset those with money but reality this only answer. Yes governments have little room else they get wholesale riots. You have to support wages or do what only left to do thats wholesale delaverage of standard living. We put up interest rates to stop inflation will make alot homeowners angry many lose there homes.

We cant keep allowing rental markets freedon to raise prices to breaking point. We cant allow private landords freedom but wont let councils build waves council homes.

We doing everything backwards hope private business take up the slack without the DEMAND. That Demand getting sucked out of the economy at present.

No point unlevearaging the protection without the demand not rocket science economics there Chris. Its not leftist its every leading economist telling these useless idiots. Even ODS told them they tanked economy by 1.5 GDP.

Country cant support it without sucking our economy we have little export power to compensate the devauling pound. We would been far better doing nothing let the economy right its self then solve ills with better regulation tighter controls. Yes wish labour had got grips of runaway standard living but brown so drunk on it fact we been so drunk on housing booms(ponzi scheme for years).

Hugh thanks for the figures still pretty bad.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

As from today reality has kicked in. there's no more thinking about how much money they will have less to spend on food, energy, bills and whatever.
as from today they have less money. it has become a reality.

the average is around £17 per week.
may sound a little. but you're not doing it by percentages.
take 25% off your weekly income to see the effects.

we have set foot on the path of no return. as from today things can only get worse.

and I'd like to give a shout out to all the laughing bankers. and on behalf of the British homeless, poor and vulnerable. say a big thankyou to each and everyone of you :)

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

We all know that the Tory party are for the rich, and the Labour is the poor mans party.

But since the coalition came into power they brought in all these cuts, these have all hit the vulnerable and the poor, we have students in this country struggling to make ends meet, but what has the coalition done - put up student fees.

They have cut the police service to to the bone, what happens crime WILL go up, no doubt about it, you will have people that will commit crime to support there families - ie shoplifting, burglary. You will have people get depressed and take there own lives.
They introduced this stupid Bedroom Tax ( like they did with the Poll Tax, just to bring in extra funds).

They have hit pensions, they have put this country into further recession, they are cutting the welfare bill, that will hit so many.

There have been calls for taxation that the rich will pay more, there have been people that have admitted that they have avoided paying tax.

They have NOT once said that will create jobs by investment int this country, that will provide jobs, They have said that we will create training schemes - for what, there is no work out there for these people to go to.

They are paying companies (with our tax money) to take on unemployed people to do 'voluntary work, this WILL NOT create a job.

Figures do not come into the true fact that the poor and the vulnerable are being hit by this government, and they cannot answer back.

There was a story along with a photo in a media paper, where it showed Osborne and friends having a party where they were paying £300 quid for bottles of wine.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

While I don't, in general, agree with what this government is doing.

It's worth pointing out that at least two things the government is doing are designed at least partly with the idea of creating jobs.

These are the building of HS2 (which I seem to remember you complained bitterly about) and the measures to increase lending to first time buyers (which, IIRC, you are complaining about elsewhere on the forum).

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Some rich people have worked hard to earn there money, why should they give it to the scroungers on benefits. Its the folk who are screwing the system who can work but choose not to that are causing genuine people who need benefits to suffer.

The tories make it clear, work hard get money, choose not to work and you wont be able to afford your iphone 5 next year.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Sadly, facts like those will be wasted on Arthur as he's proved countless times before.

Of course, in Arthurblahblah land, cutting corporation tax has nothing to do with creating jobs either. :rolleyes:

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

I am trying to say several things.

The government ARE NOT doing anything to create Jobs, The HS2 will go to a foriegn company, as it will be cheaper and they will employ foriegn workers as they are cheaper.

They MUST create jobs, and this is what they are NOT doing, yes l go on and on, but there are thousands of people out there looking for work.

The cioalition are not making it easy by cutting benefits.

I am saying that the ruch must be hit as well, but they are not. If they have made money by business - good, but l am talking about the rich that are getting away without paying taxes.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

But Arthur, as it was pointed out to you the last time you posted your musings about foreign firms taking all the construction work (re the Olympics), your propositions were sub-optimal interpretations of available information, as major British companies built most of the Olympic infrastructure, so if you were wrong before, it may be, just may be, that you will be wrong again.

Or aren't facts important, only polemic and rhetoric?

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Facts are OK as long as they don't contradict Arthur's peculiar form of reasoning.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

I just give up on this forum, my entire point is that the coalition is doing nothing at all about the fact that companies are leaving this country due to high taxation, employment is NOT being created to ease the pressure off the unemployed.

The coalition is making the whole system that the poor, the vulnerable and the unemployed, will suffer, this is why we pay taxes, and yet people are going to suffer at no fault of there own.

How many companies have gone bust since the coalition have come in, how many recessions have we had since the coalition have come in.

Yes, the contracts may be won by a BRITISH company, but tell me what foreign workers will be taken on ahead of the British workman to save money.

I know of a British builder who has his own business, and he has told me he can employ THREE Polish builders for the price of ONE British Builder as he can pay them LESS than a British guy.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

It is true when you think about it. they're not doing anything really apart from sorting out the weak in society.
not much mention of anything else really. it's all focused on just that. it's almost like a diversion.

I still say there's a master plan unfolding.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Surely then, it's his fault if he does that? The government may have made it easier (and it's actually LABOUR that made it easier, the current government have tightened the laws) to employ foreign workers, but they have not forced anyone to do so.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

I am thinking of the poor vulnerable person out there, no fault of their of the own that has to depend on the state to survive on benefits.

They will be hit hard due to this and yet everyone is backing this government on what they are doing. Its not right.

I hope just that when l officially retire in three years time, l don't have to depend on the pension. I have worked for the past 45 years and want to live in a good standard of living with my wife as we both deserve a decent later life, but the way this government is working, my wife has already been told she cannot retire until 66, within the next two years the retirement age will probably go up, so the government wont have to pay us a decent pension.

How can you survive on £145.00 per week for two.

Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...s-sign-1796787 I know its £7.57

would not even buy him a lunch anywhere he is used to might just stretch to buy a coffee

---------- Post added at 23:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:55 ----------

https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...e-on-53-a-week petition is here if you wanna sign it

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

lol I would love to see it they always these scam ones where did it 4 days and struggled.

To be fair you might just live on £53 but you will end up long term in health and debt issues.

You would likely fail the JSA rules jobseaking as its completely impossible to fund 40 hour jobsearch. I spent £20 in some weeks job hunting Papers/stationary, stamps/ some cases had to go recorded as deadlines so tight.

Idiots like IDS never done it or been there if had its years ago times money issues changed. He wants JSA online only how does expect it come out of money.

Where is stationary costs coming from this before the gear needed to make person respectable for employment/interviews.

Then there the stuff needed to eat, pay for like electric/gas and bills.

If he can do all that on £53 let him document it show people there errors from front be truthful. No thrills for him no outside help and go through trying get job unsuccessfully to basically show how difficult is for 1 solid year or maybe 2.

He should lead by example infact every MP should afterall they all think its possible let them all try it:D. Put GPS band on legs monitor 24 hours so not cheating. Crikey our MP's say cant work on the pay they get have to claim stuids like TV licences and all sorts stuff which should come out own pocket.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

The mans a utter buffoon if he thinks he can live on that as water , gas , electricity and council tax have to be paid and that's before food is put on the table.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

Come on, are you insinuating the millionaire Duncan Smith is out of touch ;)

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

I suggest that, since Arthur has issues with the effects of mass migration, he takes it up with his mates @ SameOldLabour* who opened the floodgates in the pursuit of social engineering.



* The party he'll probably be voting for again at the next election. :rolleyes:

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

But hence 30 years on he has become bloated on the arrogance of being one of those many millionaire politicians who is totally out of touch with normal people who have to exist on a hand to mouth day to day existence.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

A hell of a lot has changed since he was claiming.

The thing is after food/gas/electric/water/CT/TV licence even if its just a portable the claimant as said still has to maintain the claim be able to look for work be presentable for interviews travel around all on £7 a day. Its £3 just for a return bus ticket to town if I had to go to Coventry it would cost over the £7 in one shot

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

Indeed, I don't think him doing it for a week - even two or three would prove anything. Make him do a month or two and we'll see.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

I get slightly confused with threads like this.

On one hand you have a number of posters here that think the cuts and I will say attack on the most needy is seen as a welcome thing. (Get them all off their lazy backsides). Yet when you see it like this it kind of changes things a bit. Where are the usual posters defending these cuts to say that you can live on £7 a day which is what they are championing afterall.

Or have I got this wrong? Afterall all I see is 'we can't afford it anymore, the last Govmt blah blah blah' stuff, yet ignore the actual realities. And the term benefit claiment now means one thing regardless of what benefit you're claiming. It also seems like a conscience cleansing comment when you hear 'but those that need help should get it' eg, the sick and disabled. But the truth isn't like that, we just end up as collateral damage, unfortunate, or just ignored. We are bundled with the scroungers and the scammers there is no difference, we're all in this together.

I would say that if you're claiming child allowance then you're a benefit claiment but it doesn't have the same effect does it. Why not, afterall those that are on 30k who have moaned when that they could lose their pitance when their partners are on 50k-60k and above seems to have been listened to more than those that are struggling on £7 a day. Annoying that.

The ignorance surrounding this benefit subject is astounding, I'm sure if I say that I claim ESA, then automatically the same people will think that I claim every benefit there is and on top of that have an easy life compared to the average worker. It's so far from the truth than you've been fed to believe, it is sad really.

As for IDS, the words rot in hell seems way too light for the likes of him.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

this is the very reason you see me fight so hard on these threads they say they know the reality some say they experienced it but those that do so it was a long time ago

They have all fell for the governments propaganda dude the benefit claimant is an ideal scapegoat

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

I think the general feeling and thoughts from many who agree to all these cuts involving a particular group in society is 'as long as it doesn't involve me' 'ignorance' 'as long as it's them and not me again' and more 'ignorance'

it's a form of self protection in the way of agreeing to what's going on thinking that they'll leave me alone if I stand by and watch.

what they don't realise is that they are next. Dave is going to be fair and take around 25% or £70 per week from their pockets too. as a punishment for their ignorance in seeing their fellow man suffer :)

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

I reckon he could do it... as his missus is absolutely loaded....

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

Rather than IDS trying to actually live the life he claimed was doable, and no one believing that he was actually doing it, I would be happy if he would just set his minions to actually research how it could be done and then publish a workable blueprint for all the poor sods who are actually trying to survive on such a small amount. At least that way what he says is possible can be challenged

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

yes i sing it Let,s get Muppet Man I D S to prove it:mad:

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

Ah I do love a good old fashioned burning torch mob thread. :rolleyes:

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

Is that all you can offer. I'm glad you've got it all off your chest. :rolleyes:

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, so I don't imagine he's going to lose any sleep over an article in the Daily Mirror, a politically-motivated petition and the signatures of a few thousand Labour activists.

IDS was asked directly on the Today programme if he could live on £53. If he'd said 'no' then the Mirror would be screaming in fury this morning and there'd be a petition demanding that the government abandon benefit changes that they admit are unfair and impossible to live with. He said 'yes' and the Mirror is screaming in fury this morning and demanding that he prove it, which is a bit awkward for them because he has already proven his ability to live on benefits when he left the army. That's not good enough for the usual suspects though, they say that years ago "things were different" and they demand proof that he could still do it today, but IMO that's just a thinly disguised attack based on envy of someone who has made a success of his life.

Just face it everyone, IDS has been there, done that, couldn't afford the tee shirt and now has a well-paid job in which he has to take hard decisions and get personal abuse as a result. He isn't going to give up his salary, his mansion or his nice car. There's no point. If you don't believe his stint on benefits at the beginning of his civilian career proves anything, then you won't believe a daft spectacle sponsored by the Mirror proves anything either.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

Whats the point really? Everyone has already accepted without question that giving someone less money is somehow a 'tax' so I doubt pointing out that £53 a week is not the minimum amount someone will be given in benefits each week will be of any use.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

Thankfully the benefit reforms are proving extraordinarily popular on the doorstep according to Tory research - Osborne is supposed to be making a speech about it today. Labour is looking more and more like it's pursuing a core vote strategy, the longer it and its shills at the Graun and the Mirror bang on about how unfair everything is. The louder they shout, the harder it will be in 2015 to collect the middle England votes they need to win the election.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

When l saw this thread, l just had to laugh about it.

IDS, is an idiot just like Cameron,Osborne and Clegg. What you have to look at, when l was out of work, we were given a cheap mobile phone to look for work but the prices for the calls were expensive.

IDS wont do what people want - him and his mates want the rich life -expensive bottles of wine, dine at the best resuarants on our money.

Can you see him or his puppets walking into a food bank, getting on the bus looking for work that isn't there, he loves the life with police detectives looking after his safety.

I can just imagine him living off £7.00 per day, that would be gone in five minutes by buying a cup of coffee in one of the Costa restuarnats that doesn't pay any tax.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

Envy is an ugly thing Arthur.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

If you're paying over £7 for a coffee I think you'd better have a word with the staff at costa. :erm:

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

accept of course - Arthur voted for the coalition last time ;)

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

Derek, l wouldn't drink that crap. I prefer Nescafe from Tesco

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

So basically you're saying it doesn't matter what he does then, a tory voter will support whatever regardless if its right or wrong or no matter the effect? It has to be 'Labour activists' doesn't it to disagree. It also show how much you care about what really goes on..

Lets be honest then here, can you live on £53 a week (and not just for 1 week either). Just making excuses for his behalf doesn't say much. So you're also saying nothing has changed over the years that the standard cost of living is still the same as when he came out of the army so you basically trying to ignore the truth that everything has changed... Okay....

And now for the envy (very snide of you, but so wrong), I've rather be myself and in my situation than that cretin. But it can also show you for what you believe in as well if you think that way.

Why not let him prove these doubters. But I think we all know how it'll end up if it did happen. Maybe it would be best to avoid the truth again. Afterall we all know what you think of these kind, caring and listening people.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Only due to a personal dislike of his sitting Labour MP. Arthur's general sympathies have always been quite clear:

Quoted from http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...l#post34996686

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

I did vote Lib Dems at the last election but only as a protest vote, IF l had known that they would have joined forces with Idiot Cameron, l would not have voted for them.

Yes, l will vote Labour, And the only complaint l have regarding migration is that in this country we have some brilliant British workforce, who can do the same job but they are being overlooked on the grounds that they can get foreign labor cheaper.

Something has to happen.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

it was labour that let all the immigrants in. Five million of them.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

Ok here's a question, for those who feel benefits should go up not down, where is the money to come from. I mean real money that exists now not pie in the sky things like create more jobs because we know that will not cut it. So come on WHERE is the money to come from considering this country is supposable broke ????

BTW i have no postion on this one way or the other as i have NEVER been on benefits at all so don't know enough about the subject.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

You might find out that some on benefits would prefer to get less if it was made more stable or reformed correctly.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

I care about the economic health of the country, which if it is good will provide the right environment for those who work hard to get on, do well and, who knows, earn enough to drive a nice car like IDS.

I look at those who have done well as success stories to learn from and perhaps emulate, not hate figures to be envied and punished.

This country cannot afford its benefits bill. The bill has to come down. But even with these changes the bill is not coming down, its increase has merely been slowed a bit.

I've been on jobseeker's, and within the last 4 years, and without the extra safety net of HB as I own my own house. The only reason I still have my own house is that I've not spent my life sucking up credit like sweeties and tried to do only what I could afford. These days I'm self employed, earning not very much but increasing year on year.

I know all about the benefits system and what it's like to live on it and I still think IDSis doing the right thing for the right reasons. Though I am fully aware that the very fact that I agree with IDS will be more than enough reason for some of you to discount my own experiences of the benefit system as somehow invalid, or less important than your own, just the same as you rush to discount IDS's own experience of the system.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Correct but that won't stop Arthur blaming the Tories for everything that's happened in trying to undo the damage that Bliar and Brown did during their 13 years at the helm spending money they didn't have. I really don't think people like Arthur can, even if they wanted to, grasp just what sort of a mess SameOldLabour left behind them. Now the chickens are inevitably coming home to roost, people like him choose to bury their heads in the sand, rely on the same tired old rhetoric and believe what they want to hear from the architects of our financial problems rather than facing the tough facts. They delude themselves that just as they have a 'right' to support from the state, UK PLC has a 'right' to support from people around the world to carry on funding state spending we patently can't afford.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

It must be nice to be in that position, you've earned it, good for you. You can now crap on the little people as it now doesn't affect you. I don't mean this to be a dig either, but it is the general feeling.

In such a way that it is hitting the most needy just as hard. They can do things a lot better and at such a more cost effective way, but it seems they aren't interested in doing the 'right' thing just cutting costs is the only important part.

You know all about the benefit system??... I've been on benefits for about a decade now (never claimed HB, Council Tax, presciptions etc etc) and I haven't got a clue to the minefield of the system. And you state this because you claimed it once. Maybe I should come to you for advice then.

Again maybe I am getting all this wrong, I was on about my position yet we're now talking about those that don't want to work. It seems the wasters and the genuine are just the same thing.

Osborne's in cuckoo land
 

http://news.sky.com/story/1072651/be...lfare-shake-up

Osborne is in cuckoo land if he thinks that braining in tougher welfare reforms, He goes to Morrisons warehouse who are probably paying into the Tory banks.

What he forgets to say is that what about those people that have been made redundant through no fault of their own, and are now on benefits.

He is saying that he wants to stop people that are living on £20.000 per year on benefit,

When l was out of work l had to live on £75.00 per week for my wife and l yes, we had my son who is disabled.

Outs of that benefit, we had to pay half rent, then you have bills to pay, etc.

Then he says that he is REDUCING by 5p the 50p tax rate, and from next April he is not taking tax for those earning £10.000 per year - Election coming up.

They Tory have got to realise one thing - there is no work out there, unless you want to queue all night for a couple of jobs, and thousands turn up - employers are going to go for the cheapest wage possible.

Osborne grow up and remember you are a millionaire and get paid by us in our TAXES.:mad:

And what makes luagh is that ARE Morrisons going to reduce proces to help the unemployed with food.

Several football clubs offered cheap entry to games on production of there unemployed card - will Morrisons follow, l doubt it.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

So many anti Tory threads from Arthur lately. Shall we just create a general hate the Tories thread ;-)

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

No, let him carry on making an utter fool of himself as often as he likes I say... :D

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

They were trying to sort out the mess the Country was in after the last time there was a Conservative Government.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Oh right, and they did that by a decade and more of lies, spin, sleaze. Illegal wars, cooking the books, opening the floodgates to mass immigration, turning PFI into an monstrous art form, spending money they didn't have, selling off our gold reserves, raiding the pension funds, failing to regulate the City, praising and then knighting the likes Fred the Shred, presiding over the worst excesses of the tabloid media etc. etc. etc. lol

Yes, I can see SameOldLabour did an exceptional job of sorting out the 'mess' the inherited, just like they always do... :rofl:

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

l think you will find there are as many anti Labour and anti Lib Dems threads as well but look we are are all entitled to our opinions as long as we stay within the confines of not making it personal and nasty and at least one thing this country does have is freedom of speech.

---------- Post added at 13:27 ---------- Previous post was at 13:24 ----------

As far as l am concerned they are both as bad as each other as one digs a hole and the present lot has just made it bigger.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

I am not Labour anything thank you very much.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Weaning Britain off benefits seems to be harder than getting a junkie off his smack... ;)

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

if he really does have a clue then he should back it up. You tell me Chris how would you budget 53 quid a week if it was just for you? please include food bills including CT travel expenses to job centre and if you can not go there 3 or 4 times a week please factor in internet connection. Stamps stationary? travel to library to read papers. The travel to interviews to maintain your claim show us how it is done it is obvious IDS will choose not to

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

No thanks.

I've worked hard to get myself out of that situation, I have no intentions of doing it again as a paper exercise which, you and I both know, won't change anyone's mind anyway.

Re: Thousands sign petition to get IDS to prove anyone can live on £7 a day
 

:clap:

that,and less whingeing and less of a victim-mentality would do many people in this country,and I suspect some in this thread,a lot of good. Everybody goes through harsh times,such is Life and it is indeed how we grow,imo.

But this whole attitude around benefits and the so-called cuts seems to be mainly envy and a defeatist attitude... no man shall have what I don't have. How about working harder to get what others have,and maybe more.

I'm obviously NOT talking about the totally disabled or those who are very,very ill,although disability doesn't have to mean poverty or not being successful.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

This bloke that challenged IDS to live on £53 a week isn't exactly the best example is he .
He is a self employed fruiterer with a market stall which clearly isn't making him any money so possibly it is time to move on and try something else ,and just so we are clear no one is meant to live on unemployment benefits like JSA ,they are meant to survive .

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Funny,I thought exactly the same thing... here is a business model that doesn't work,so he expects the public to make up for it?? :rolleyes:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

and the difference that makes is? IDS spouted crap and has been pulled up on it its irrelevant who did

oh and incidentally he is trying very hard you string up the scroungers lot should be praising him

---------- Post added at 14:14 ---------- Previous post was at 14:13 ----------

see blinkered that in itself proves my point all along. You worked hard to get out of that situation before this is today a totally different climate. Only those in the position today knows what it is like today I know you have worked hard and still do and are not comfortable as it were and I do respect that side of it just not your political viewpoint on this issue

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

What's wrong with the current system is that it's become a lifestyle choice for too many people. That's not good for UK PLC and it's certainly not good for those who really need support and have no other choices because resources which could and should be made available to them are being directed at people who don't deserve them.

Yes it is harsh and yes it will involve hurting people (including my youngest) who haven't done anything wrong but IMHO it's the only way to get back to a system in which welfare is there as a back-up for those in genuine need and not a means by which some people can drift through their lives and go on to bring up their children expecting others to support them in turn.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Since all the threads have now been merged i will mention this little snippet quoted on the Jeremy Vine show today .
When LABOUR in 2008-9 decided to reassess everyone on disability payments the result was astounding .800,000 people decided not to go for the medical and simply ended their claims .Now if that figure is true it is eye watering ,if it has been exaggerated by 50% it is still terrible and shows how many where allowed to claim benefits falsely ,which is probably why doctors where removed from making the decision as to whether someone was fit to work or not .
Now i have to go back to work and earn some benefits for someone so i'll let someone else find the official figures to back up Edwina Curries statement.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

it's good he's trying,but what good is it if his 'business' can't support him and he relies on benefits anyway? Time to do something else,really...

also,why should IDS prove to anyone he can live on benefits... he's done it before and has worked himself to the top,good for him I say. But I guess in Britain AD 2013 it's string up the well-to-do... ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

that I do not contest but the governments propaganda is pushing the worker to believe its all down to the unemployed

---------- Post added at 14:22 ---------- Previous post was at 14:18 ----------

no less than the string up the claimant crew...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

well,trying to bring the benefits system back to it's intended purpose,which is supporting the needy,is a far cry from a call to string up the claimants.
This is painful but it needs to be done for the sake of the country and its future. Far too many people rely on the state and it needs to stop,simple as that.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

Yes please and can you set it to automatically move any of Arthur's rant threads straight into it so we don't get caught out by a sneaky one. :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Its just been said on Sky News that IDS income per week AFTER tax is £1600 per week.

Plus he has a private car and chauffeur and probably a Protection officer. Sick.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Envy is ugly, Arthur.

Re: Poor affected - The Rich not affected again - why?
 

A better idea would be to start your own thread and keep all your rants about Arthur in that one place.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yes,he's a high-ranking Member of Government and has worked hard to get there.... your point being? :dozey:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

yeah and it was Thatcher who encouraged claimants onto the sick remember her way of doctoring the unemployment figures after they drove past 3 million

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The problem is there is an entire section of the population who have never worked. While I don't think they are the majority at all, I've seen people on benefits not think twice about spending (say) a couple of hundred for a pair of trainers. I work and cannot afford that. I know people who can afford to spend that amount on trainers that have never worked. I know of people who are the second or third generation in a family who've never worked.

That has to stop.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

its public service not service yourself. No one in public service is worth that much

---------- Post added at 15:10 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

still not jobs for everyone may as well employ those that want jobs first. Society and capitalism demands everyone has to have money to survive so it makes finding an answer hard cuz if you take their money away they will have to turn to crime to survive. Unless you just kill them all or put them on an island to fend for themselves perhaps?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Bear in mind that even where there *are* jobs, a lot of people haven't taken them.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Really? Considering frequent 18 hour days,the enormous responsibility and prodigious workload I'd actually say the pay is pathetic. Someone that high up in the private sector wouldn't get up in the morning for £1600 a week...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

but he chose to be in politics which is public service

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I'm sure they will get a fine. big enough to deter them from upsetting the working rich people.

we can't lock them up. that will be a luxury which most of them will probably want. and there just aren't enough places to go around.

if anyone does get inconvenienced by a member of this society in the upcoming weeks and months. the police are only a phone call away :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

maybe they cannot do them Bear in mind the DWP should force those able to do the jobs to interview for these jobs maybe they are not qualified which then loops right back to what I want and that is 12 months where the long termed unemployed can retrain and get benefits as long as they go to the course and apply themselves then I think it would be a good thing

I tell ya on a side note you got to love the English language Bear having 3 bloody different meanings I have always used Bare before but upon checking I have always been wrong

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Which makes precisely no difference whatsoever. He's in a high-pressure job with long hours and serious responsibilities. The compensation he receives in pay and benefits is by no means excessive.

And, seeing as Arthur mentioned the police protection, that's because the Provos spent years plotting to kill our politicians and because these days there are most likely a few Islamist nutters who would like to have a go as well. Carping about police protection for our senior politicians is an extremely low blow IMO and simply demonstrates the real motivation behind some of the comments posted in this thread.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Didn't Ian marry into money?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

and because you get peanuts so should he... correct? ;)

---------- Post added at 15:27 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------

Jealous?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

cheap shot in an attempt to remove credibility from those with a view opposing yours . Mind you I am sure if I looked I could find some equally distasteful remarks from some on your side

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Don't know what she looks like.

did he marry into money then?