Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"Phorm has agreed to allow an independent software expert to inspect its source code as it continues to battle the firestorm provoked by agreements with BT, Virgin Media and Carphone Warehouse to let it build profiles of their broadband customers' web browsing."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/19/phorm_8020_pi/

As ever, The Register's thoughts and the subsequent comments are worth reading.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

More rubbish. It doesn't highlight anything of the sort. It highlights the fact that companies are not to be trusted with personal data. There's no good reason for anyone to trust a malware company who have consistently lied, dissembled and changed the subject consistently since their plans became public.

Luckily it looks like you're not going to get away with this. I find it particularly funny that since you apparently pulled the wool over Simon Davies' eyes, another body which he sits on the board of (FIPR) have declared your technology to be illegal. It seems fairly clear-cut that Phorm along with BT have already commited criminal acts: even if you take the Home Office advice as the last judgement on the technology (which it expressly denies itself), the trials last year were offences under the RIPA.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yep, we'll finally be told by an independent expert if the Phorm software intercepts personal data or not. If it does, then that's the end of Phorm, as such interception (without the direct and explicit agreement of both parties) is clearly against the law.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: Couldnt agree more and I hope those people involved in the illegal trials last year complain to the police about such offences committed by BT/Phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

so you're saying that having my data hijacked by phorm is good for me??

behave.. is that the best you can do??

just say, for fun, that i wanted your service, i would procure it in the standard way, by buying it.. but having it forced down my throat.. i don't think so..

i don't have a contract with phorm.. i will never knowingly have a contract with phorm.. and to reiterate i couldn't give a rats ass what you say.. the contract to move my data is with BT.. the minute it gets mirrored on to phorm kit i will take that as a breach of contract and quit..

i know how networks work.. i know what networking kit does.. i have no idea what phorm does.. but i know what it could do.. and i know phorm have form for creating spyware, rootkits, adware whateverthehell you want to call it..

stop trying to convince me that phorm is a good thing.. cos i'm NOT ****ING STUPID

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I doubt many of us will trust another 'expert' if he or she gives it the all-clear. Five minutes later, Phorm or the ISPs could 'upgrade' the software. There is nothing Phorm or the ISPs or a PR company can do to persuade me that this interception is trustworthy. So I'm not exactly holding my breath for the results of this one.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The interception is already clear - both the Home Office and FIPR statements make clear that the Phorm technology IS interception as defined in the RIPA. From what I take from those statements, as far as RIPA is concerned, the nature of the data is unimportant, the fact that data is monitored at all is enough.

The only question really left is over how to define "explicit" consent. If you take the Home Office opinion, then it could be given in the Ts&Cs for the ISP contract. I'd guess that the only way BT could argue that their tests last year were legal would be to try and demonstrate that their existing T&C at the time allowed for this kind of interception. I'd be surprised if they did, but then it would be up to the lawyers to argue about that.

[EDIT: The Home Office advice is not the last word on the subject either. The FIPR opinion seems to argue that "explicit consent" is just that, and existing T&C would have to be updated. It also argues that the Home Office idea of "implied consent" by the owner of the web page is not enough to satisfy the requirements of the act, and consent cannot be assumed from that side. If you take this opinion, then there's almost nothing Phorm could do to be considered legal, short of contacting the owner of every single webpage on the internet and gaining their consent to intercept. Given the fact that at least some webmasters are already beginning to add Phorm non-consent notices to their websites, it seems almost impossible that Phorm/the ISP would not break the law.]

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

See this :)

http://denyphorm.blogspot.com/2008/0...ort-crime.html

But rest assured, some of the people from last summer are currently building a case to present to the police, I have that on very good authority (from the horses mouth so to speak).

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I wonder how 121 media/Phorm will spin over the fact that users have started to leave their target ISP's for none 121media/Phorm ISP's

Wonder how happy VirginMedia will be when their users get the letter to say they are going to sell there customers private data to a Spyware company and they all up sticks and start to leave.

If there average user spends £70.00 a month with Virgin i wonder how that equates to the average earned by each users private data. Will one be more than the other and which one will hurt more when they lose it.

If they do this and they lose me they will lose the following.

Phone

Broadband 20 meg now would have been upped to 50 meg when its ready for my area later in the year.

2 x Tvdrives and all movies and sports.


So are you happy VM to lose customers with all those products just so you can be a bunch of wasters

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oh, that's OK then. Thanks 'Team Phorm' for sorting it all out. My mind is now at peace.

If you could continue to be so helpful, I wondered if you could help a financially naive poster?

This morning your 'principals' (the ones you are hired to protect) announced that they would raise 32m GBP by placing 1.6m shares at 2000p a share.

Given that the share price today has dropped by over 15% to 1824p, does this still represent good value to potential investors?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Great news and I await further developments eagerly.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hey maybe Phorm should take a leaf out of Comcast's book, clearly they have worked much harder on accessing profiling data judging by this:

http://gizmodo.com/369379/comcast-wa...your-cable-box

Lets see how long before VM decide to try this as well.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Now thats just downright creepy Alexander. Whatever next?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

PhormUKteam,

Can you explain, how Phorm will improve my online privacy? No matter how you dress it up, I just can not, see how phorm will provide an improvement to my online privacy?

How will injecting the websites that *I* view with certain ads that will 'benefit' me ? Surely, if I want to buy a shell account, for example, I would use one of the many search engines that are around.

Also most of the moden web browsers, as far as I know, have super phishing filters built in. Google, for example warns users about certain websites that might cause damage, Window's Mail in vista, also provide phishing filters.

I just can not see any benefit. Can you explain?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

How on earth does an article that doesn't even mention Phorm highlight why it is actually an improvement? All that article does is highlight that people shouldn't trust strange organisations with their data.

Two important points here: First, regardless of what you say, Phorm has to store data that is personally identifiable. It would take a hacker a while, and two hacks, but your info can be linked to the random number used, therefore, the profile stored is accessible. If the system couldn't link data in that way, Phorm would not be able advertise to the user.

Second point, and one that the Phorm PR has totally ignored: Yes, other systems do store profiling data. But, they are OPT IN. They can also be easily blocked, even if you haven't opted out (I have still seen no actual proof that the Phorm system ignores data if the user has opted out). Finally, these system reward the user for their use. Google does target ads, but they don't count that as a reward. No, they provide free email (with potentially unlimited storage), free software (Google Earth, Picasa to name two), a news aggregation system and a comprehensive search engine. What does Phorm reward it's users with? Oh yeah, targetted ads (which I don't consider a benefit) and anti phishing protection (which is already provided by every recent browser apart from Safari).

Oh, and you may argue that Phorm has good protection (and bearing in mind the links to Russian Military intelligence of some of the programmers, I'd be surprised if it wasn't good), but the phorm system would still provide a series of nice "honeypots" to attract hackers (think of how many sets of credit card details the average hacker could get if they successfully hacked the Phorm system and implanted a nice little trojan just before the Anonymising process).