Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Interesting to see Phorm's reply in post 797. They say the following about spyware:

While OIX doesn't install anything (apart from a cookie or two) on your PC, it can (although we have no way of knowing if it will) be configured to monitor your comms regardless of whether you have given consent or not.

Phorm is hidden. In that you don't get any visible sign you are being monitored. Even if the ads aren't being displayed, because of the way the monitoring is being done, we have know way of knowing if our browsing habits are being recorded or not. Beyond the assurances of a company that we have no knowledge of beyond the fact that it's previous products have been labelled spyware by various independant experts.

If configured to monitor your comms regardless of the opt out (which according to the presentation I have seen, it can be), Phorm would actually be impossible for the user to remove unless they change ISP.

Also, it may steal info. Again, we have only the word of Phorm that it discards personal data.

So, according to their own definition, the OIX system could be considered spyware.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The profiling equipment wouldn't be able to scan the encrypted web pages, but what else they learn does depend on what and how much of our IP data is going to be routed into the profiling kit. If the IP headers are not altered by our ISP before they reach the profiling equipment, then the profiler will know what web site we surf to, if it were a bank then they can guess who we bank with.

Phorm have claimed that will not know about IP addresses, but it seems they won't give straight answers about what their profiling equipment can see, and prefer to twist the answer by mentioning Webwise rather than the profiling equipment.

---------- Post added at 15:01 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

Stuart C, good observation, and hardly surprising given that they made some of their money from spyware - can a leopard really change its spots?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not only wont they give straight answers about the profiler but they have yet to give us any kind of answers as to what kind of information may be stored in these "research and debug logs" that they store for 14 days. This despite swearing they store no personally identifiable information.

Do we all remember what happened when AOL researchers released (accidentally? - yeah more like deliberately) supposedly anonymised search terms of over 600,000 people and it only took researchers hours to track people down and show them a list of the search terms they had used?

Until I know what will be stored in these "research and debug logs" - and lets remember the word "research" has some wide connotations - then I will not accept Phorms claim that they store no personally identifiable information.

Add to that the fact that they, along with Virgin Media, still refuse to give cast-iron answers to simple technological questions and seek to obfuscate the debate with phrases such as "if you opt-out your internet experience will remain the same" and the writing is on the wall.

Oh I cant wait for the stock market to reopen on tuesday so that I can get back to my new favourite past time of watching their share price collapse further.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi folks havent posted a lot on here but ive written to my mp and mep asking them to look at this so when i get a reply ill let you all know. Also theres a group on facebook too

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=9216870661

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"Phorm have claimed that will not know about IP addresses, but it seems they won't give straight answers about what their profiling equipment can see"

lol, phorm might not when asked,but their COO did slip up remember.

quote " As you browse, we're able to categorize all of your Internet actions ," said Virasb Vahidi, the chief operating officer of Phorm. " We actually can see the entire Internet ."

Followup to my DPA letter
 

- that is, Virgin have sent a followup. Sort of. It's from Customer Concern (in Swansea, of all places).

They seem to think the letter was a complaint about the service. Oh, come ON!!! (part II)

What is wrong with these people?! I know there are none so blind who will not see, but this is just getting stupid! Do they really think we're just going to sit still and let this abuse happen?


---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:08 ----------

Short answer: no, it wouldn't outsmart Phorm.

Ironkey only keeps files secure once you've got them - but all such files pass through your ISP before reaching your computer, and Ironkey can't stop that, so it doesn't do you any good. Unless I've missed something.

No, the only way around the profiling (spying, theft - hard to see the difference) if your ISP does it is to switch to an ISP that doesn't. I wonder how many parties the Bethere execs (and those of any other non-participating ISP) will be throwing when the new subscribers start signing up in their hundreds and, most likely, thousands...?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'd be surprised if they didn't use the IP. After all, if the site is just one big flash movie (as some are) and contains no keywords, unless the phorm software uses the IP, then they aren't going to be able to profile your usage of that site.

Also, as I stated earlier, they could do the same profiling they are claiming they will do using just their data centre and a lot of browser side javascript and cookies. According to Phorm , Google achieve their profiling this way.

Why would Phorm spend (presumably) tens of millions of pounds installing hardware at the ISP to do the same job? Either they are hiding something(*) , or they are massively incompetant.

* Like the fact that they can monitor you even if you opt out, after all, if you opt out, they say they don't process your data, so why should it matter to them if you block them?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

exactly, just look at the Board of directors on the Phorm payroll, all these high roll ex-CEO's, ex-COO's and bankers etc.

they obviously thought, ohh, an all we can eat window on the mug-punters data and its all MINE,i own the patent, ca-ching.

(*whispers in the back!?!?!?, whats that you say, THE LAW,ohh we dont need to worry about that here,thats the other guys problem.)

Re: Followup to my DPA letter
 

it lets you surf the web with encryption enabled like a vpn session so i think it would

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Assuming you are using a VPN or other encryption. That's a big assumption.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I occasionaly do work from home volunteer work not paid work this does involve handling members data I have agreed a NDC for this but again Phorm would access this as I worked. Don't be taken in by thye hype it is for your protection this is totally wrong it is only a way to makle money of your surfing habits... You already pay for the service to access the internet so where you go is yours personal data collection and this is what they intend to use to earn money from you..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You access other servers on an unsecured line? Surely Phorm is the least of your worries!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think phorm getting dirty folks.

Just been browsing this forum without loging on. Went off to make a cup tea and other things. Gone about roughly half hour but just kept on the browsing thread on here.


Come back and there is Alert pop up from our nice dephormation telling me of an OIX ALERT.

How is this possible. What is phorm upto back to there old malware ways.

Getting all nasty because there share going to the wall and we are now hurting them by getting ISP to rethink.

Exactly how can I get a oix cookie without browsing. I think the site needs to check if they are hacking our website to peddle there distatesful scheme.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If you stayed on this page here then its very suspicious as there are no links even to the phorm website. On other pages of this thread there are links to the phorm website posted by their PR team for example so we would expect dephormation to trigger on those. At least I think it would. Someone correct me if am wrong please.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've had Dephormation throw up an alert on a few of the other threads, as some folks have links to webwise in their post or their sigs.

I don't think it's anything to be concerned with at the mo, but keep on yer toes as we all know Phorm's history on that front.