Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What tests can we do to find out? I read somewhere that a tracert doesn't really help much, as routing can appear pretty bizarre at the best of times, even without the sneaky redirects that Phorm performs. What should we be looking for?

I Got A Reply To My Dpa Letter!
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As Lucevans request, what can we do to help find out if VM have implemented it already?

Re: I Got A Reply To My Dpa Letter!
 

Feel free - stick around, keep reading, & keep posting :)

You don't have to be a VM customer to be a member of CF.

We're unofficial & independent. Although we're primarily a forum providing help etc. for VM customers, we do also have sections for non-VM TV/'net/phone suppliers as well as various Off Topic sections.

We have plenty of members (& at least one Mod ;) ) who used to be VM/ntl/TW customers - they still post here & we're happy for them to do so.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i liked the
Anonymous said... Do Phorm comply with the following, does it apply?

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/codes/cap_...clause_id=1490

The CAP Code - Rules
SUBSTANTIATION
Before distributing or submitting a marketing communication for publication, marketers must hold documentary evidence to prove all claims, whether direct or implied, that are capable of objective substantiation.

Relevant evidence should be sent without delay if requested by the ASA or CAP. The adequacy of evidence will be judged on whether it supports both the detailed claims and the overall impression created by the marketing communication.

The full name and geographical business address of marketers should be provided without delay if requested by the ASA or CAP.

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/codes/cap_...clause_id=1501

The CAP Code - Rules
HONESTY
Marketers should not exploit the credulity, lack of knowledge or inexperience of consumers.

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/codes/cap_...clause_id=1503
The CAP Code - Rules
TRUTHFULNESS
No marketing communication should mislead, or be likely to mislead, by inaccuracy, ambiguity, exaggeration, omission or otherwise.

it seems PRs BBC 70% dont trust story linked to Phorm by him droped off the cliff on that last one...:dunce:

Re: I Got A Reply To My Dpa Letter!
 

that sucks typical businesses atitude you take the time effort and COST to give them registered DPA notice they gice you rubbish email. I bet your letter hit there waste paper bin they just read your contact details gave you the standard bad business finger salute standard reply. Get this according to webwise opt out we are not active so NOW have no opt out option. You cannot Get the webwise opt out cookie this what the home page says.

Just to add more twist to this sorry saga especially IF VM gone all COVERT with nasty underhand switch on.

Thank god that dephormation forcing the opt out cookie. Pete is :angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Has anybody asked Virgin if it has ever run, perhaps as a trial? Are there any definitive statements from Virgin?

I've assumed the silence from them is because they are still calculating potential profit/loss i.e. money gained from phorm vs. money lost by 'marketing targets' walking away.

Maybe they are keeping their heads down because they have more to hide. If not guilty, it's simple for them to issue a denial.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Firing up a vanilla version of Opera rather than my tied down Firefox and did a quick bit of surfing, there are no cookies from oix, webwise or phorm. Naturally I kept to sites which are not signed up to the oix agreement.

The Virgin Media Group Data Protection Officer, Ian Woodham, wrote a hand signed letter to me (posted previously) saying:

"...nothing has yet been implemented and we are still carrying out our analysis of how we will deploy Phorm's product offering"

If Virgin Media have implemented Phorm then they have gone against their commitment to advise their customers as per Regulation 6 of the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003.

In my reply to Mr Woodham I specifically requested "Please confirm that there is no equipment provided by or in any way connected to Phorm on the Virgin Media network." He is also aware that any future responses may well be quoted elsewhere.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I will get back to people on the questions re: how to check if VM is using Phorm on your connection as I only have a few minutes (look at tcpdump and tcptraceroute if you get a chance meanwhile (note tcptraceroute -not- traceroute)).

But I did have a think earlier about some more sinister consequences of this system with regards to shared computers.

One example is domestic abuse. Say for example a female victim of domestic abuse is searching for support groups or information about leaving her husband/partner and this happens to get picked up by the profiler because the sites she is looking at are not on the "blacklist". She spends several days doing this whilst her husband/partner is at work, then one night he logs on and starts browsing the net. He happens upon a site which is using the OIX advertising platform and sees ads related to his partner's/wife's recent browsing habits. We could potentially see tragic consequences, even deaths as a result of severe violent reactions to the discovery.

Other examples are child abuse victims, people with medical conditions they have kept hidden from the family etc. Even less "serious" scenarios where one's partner is looking for a birthday gift for you and you happen to use the computer after a profile has been built up could lead to upsetting consequences.

There is a lot that really doesn't seem to have been thought of when assessing the impact this technology could have on the more vulnerable members of our society.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've downloaded a copy of tracetcp for Windows, but I'm not sure how to spot any routing through webwise/phorm. Does this look normal? The first two hops are my router (I think), I can easily connect a PC directly to the modem if necessary.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

2nd hop is not your router unless you are using network bridging, or at least it doesn't look like it is to me (plus the ping is pretty high for your router).

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yeah, I wasn't sure about that 2nd hop either, not sure what it is to be honest.

Are the rest of my results any good to you? They look normal to me, but I'm no expert with this this kind of thing.

Ooh, I have just remembered I'm using OpenDNS - will that affect the result?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

2 10 ms 12 ms 20 ms 10.89.232.1

This is the private ip address for the modem.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ta muchly! :tu:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The latency between the 192 and 10 address if they are on the same device should be much much lower than 10-12ms. I would expect it to show as <1ms. That second hop looks like it is on the WAN not the LAN note how it is similar to the other hops on the NTL network.

You sure that is not the NTL gateway address?

Excuse my brief answers I am in and out of the office atm tending to my 2 year old.

Alexander Hanff