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-   -   Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

Mick 19-02-2008 01:43

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken (Post 34491762)
So, this is different to Google AdSense ?

Yes it is - It's a lot different to that - It's been explained already that ads served on sites which use Google Adsense are served based on content already on the webpage.

The ads served by this new system will involve intrusive spying on what sites web users visit and this information being passed about willy nilly, just so a quick buck can be made.

It's quite unacceptable this and that the bottom line is that this is just like a basic Spyware process, but on a more massive scale.

However, bizarre as it may seem - according to the poll so far, seven people think its okay... Though I bet they would kick up a scream if we all camped outside their house for the day and peered through their windows, but I could be guessing wrong after all, they wouldn't mind it, seeing as they wouldn't mind this.

TehTech 19-02-2008 01:55

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Shame its a private poll, would be interesting to see the few that have stated they dont mind, see if a "profile" can be created of these people by checking up on previous posts & threads, and then make assumptions based on what was found, bet they wouldnt be so happy about that! :angel: ;) :)

dev 19-02-2008 02:11

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34491765)
Adsense works by checking the text on the page being displayed (this is why you frequently get ads on this site that have nothing to do with Virgin Media, Cable or even the Internet). There is no personally identifyable data retrieved or sent to adsense.

there is no personally identifyable data sent to phorm either. both google and phorm can tell what sites you visit (cableforum's ad blocks will have an id, google record how many times people visit those ads so they both record).

from what i can tell, all phorm is doing is what google are doing now, but increasing the capturing area. they aren't going to insert ads randomly, it'll just be like googles ads, the web site sticks some code in the html and phorm sort the ads out.

TehTech 19-02-2008 02:16

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dev (Post 34491782)
there is no personally identifyable data sent to phorm either. both google and phorm can tell what sites you visit (cableforum's ad blocks will have an id, google record how many times people visit those ads so they both record).

from what i can tell, all phorm is doing is what google are doing now, but increasing the capturing area. they aren't going to insert ads randomly, it'll just be like googles ads, the web site sticks some code in the html and phorm sort the ads out.

But with Googe doing such, I dont get to see ads at all, this is the way I want it to stay!

When your browsing the net, well for me anyway, i wouldnt appreciate having ads all over the page, ads also take up space on the page, so the page loads slower too, and as I'm not the only one, I dont want bloody ads on the pages I browse.

Mostly when I use any search (like google or Wikipedia) its just general things I am interested in, like if I watch a film on TV and I like it, I will google or wiki it to find out all the info, I dont want ads diplayed, just the info I need.

Horace 19-02-2008 02:17

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
It's funny that when these things come around peoples first response is they don't have anything to hide. The point is you shouldn't have to even state that. It's irrelevant. If the postman was to open your letters in order to work out which junk mail to add to your mail you wouldn't be stating your innocence. The first problem I have here if this gets implemented is working out which ISP to move to.

Stuart 19-02-2008 02:20

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dev (Post 34491782)
there is no personally identifyable data sent to phorm either. both google and phorm can tell what sites you visit (cableforum's ad blocks will have an id, google record how many times people visit those ads so they both record).

from what i can tell, all phorm is doing is what google are doing now, but increasing the capturing area. they aren't going to insert ads randomly, it'll just be like googles ads, the web site sticks some code in the html and phorm sort the ads out.

Actually, wrong. Google know the numbers of people clicking through, but don't get any personally identifyable number for each user (beyond their IP which would get transmitted whatever system was in use). Google's system can also be blocked by various ad blockers, which would prevent google recieving any data.

The phorm system relies on a random number which, for their tracking to work would have to be stored somewhere, with records of what that users has browsed (I know the site doesn't state this, but it's the only way I can see that such a system would target the ads). The ISP would store the random number, as well as personal details (such as CM Mac address and even account details). Someone with a modicum of hacking skills (or even someone who found dodgy employees in both companies) could obtain access to both these databases.

Yes, you have the opt out, but you only have their word that they are not still storing the data, even if you don't get the ads.

Would you still feel the same way if you found out that (say) the Post Office developed a technology that would enable them to read your letters without opening them, store that data and use it to target junk mail?

dev 19-02-2008 02:22

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TehTech (Post 34491784)
But with Googe doing such, I dont get to see ads at all, this is the way I want it to stay!

When your browsing the net, well for me anyway, i wouldnt appreciate having ads all over the page, ads also take up space on the page, so the page loads slower too, and as I'm not the only one, I dont want bloody ads on the pages I browse.

Mostly when I use any search (like google or Wikipedia) its just general things I am interested in, like if I watch a film on TV and I like it, I will google or wiki it to find out all the info, I dont want ads diplayed, just the info I need.

did you read what i said?

from what i can tell, its another ad serving network just with a different way of making the targeted ads. dont want to see them? add the domains to whatever ad blocker you use just like you do with google ads. they aren't magical ads that aren't blockable :rolleyes:

TehTech 19-02-2008 02:32

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dev (Post 34491788)
did you read what i said?

from what i can tell, its another ad serving network just with a different way of making the targeted ads. dont want to see them? add the domains to whatever ad blocker you use just like you do with google ads. they aren't magical ads that aren't blockable :rolleyes:

But like was said earlier, you might not get these ads on your webpages, but the fact is they are STILL colleting this information, as it is done through the ISP's side.

Something just hit me, with all the news of this tracking & ads, what's it going to do for the privacy bit thats going on with how the govenment wants ISP's to look at all packets being sent & recieved to TRY to prevent piracy, makes me shudder to think what's going to be next...

Mick 19-02-2008 02:36

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dev (Post 34491788)
did you read what i said?

from what i can tell, its another ad serving network just with a different way of making the targeted ads. dont want to see them? add the domains to whatever ad blocker you use just like you do with google ads. they aren't magical ads that aren't blockable :rolleyes:

You are missing the issue here - Your web surfing, all sites you ever visit, get tracked and this information passed on to a third party by your own ISP regardless of any 'Spyware' blocking software you have active and sitting in your systray. I don't think people are actually worried about the advert being shown process, we can all block an ad if we wanted to, but its how the whole thing is being done, before that ad is being served that is quite ludicrous.

Stuart 19-02-2008 02:51

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
And further to Mick's point (also repeating my own from above): While you can opt out of this advertising system, you have to trust they are not recording your browsing habits. If you block a Google ad, there is no way on earth Google will be able to track you through that ad. Yes, their is some evidence that they store any searches you make against your IP, and store gmail indefinately, but you do have the option not to use Google for searching, and to use email services other than gmail.

In essence, you can block Google's tracking relatively easily, whatever form it takes. You cannot actually block phorm from tracking you. You can opt out, and hope they don't track you, but you cannot be entirely sure, and even if you did find out you were being tracked against your wishes, you would need evidence and potentially a lot of money to take action against them.

georgepomone 19-02-2008 03:17

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Hi All,
if they post ads based on my surfing habits they will be really worth seeing.
George;)

Mick Fisher 19-02-2008 05:59

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eddcase (Post 34491766)
Somebody already decided it would be a good idea to take your picture umpteen times when you're in the town centre. Coupled with our spending habits and online activity, we're owned already.

Internet privacy is an illusion :disturbd:

Speak for yourself. I haven't rolled over yet and never will.

dav 19-02-2008 08:47

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I assume that both VM and Phorm will make money on the ads we click on that have been pushed on us by Phorm?

If this is the case, do what I do and don't give them an incentive to push these things on us. Make it uneconomical for them to continue this 'service' by not clicking on any pop-up or embedded ads. As soon as the click-throughs and hence the revenue streams dry up they'll have to reconsider.

I'll opt out, but I also have a personal policy of NEVER clicking on-screen ads. If I want something, I'll find it myself.

I'm still heavily against my browsing habits being tracked by a 3rd party and will be contacting VM as soon as more details become available.

Akia 19-02-2008 11:52

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I'm not bothered by it.

People seem to be missing one valid point though. If it means people will be served more relevent ads, its means more chance that they will click them. Which means more money for the site that you are visiting. How long would this forum stay online for if everyone used ad blocking software?

melevittfl 19-02-2008 13:12

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34491787)

The phorm system relies on a random number which, for their tracking to work would have to be stored somewhere, with records of what that users has browsed (I know the site doesn't state this, but it's the only way I can see that such a system would target the ads). The ISP would store the random number, as well as personal details (such as CM Mac address and even account details). Someone with a modicum of hacking skills (or even someone who found dodgy employees in both companies) could obtain access to both these databases.

Actually, it's worse than that. In 2006 AOL accidently released data on what their customers search for over a three month period. They assigned each customer a random number to hid their identity.

However, just by looking at all the searches that, say 2343453 did in a week, it was possible to determine people's personal information in many cases.

For example, I might visit the website for my local town, then my bank, then a website that uses my username as part of the URL. Now they know where I live, what bank I use and at least one alias. A quick google search might find other places where my alias is used along with my real name, etc.

If you want to read about what happened with AOL, there's a good article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/te...08cnd-aol.html

So, there doesn't need to be any collusion between both companies. The data provides enough information for people to discover identities.

---------- Post added at 12:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akia (Post 34491896)
I'm not bothered by it.

Not bothered by loosing your privacy?

Care to post how much you earn and where you live?


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