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-   -   Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

Mick 18-02-2008 16:58

Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Haven't seen this posted anywhere else... Forgive me if it has...

From the story posted yesterday, here.

What do you make of this and would you be opting out, by opting out you are telling Virgin Media, you do not want your surfing habits tracked and this information given to a third party?

---

There have been Updates since the beginning of this thread:-

Post 77:- http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34491957-post77.html


Post 102:- http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34492122-post102.html

---

FAQ:-

Who should I complain to about this if this is something I do not agree with?

The first port of call should be to complain to Virgin Media directly, state that you are not happy about your data being tracked and sold to a third party even if your identity is protected or not.

Secondly, there is a Data Protection concern regarding how the data is collected and the fact customers have automatically been opted in, regulation usually requires that customers should be given the option to Opt in.

If you are concerned and feel you need to complain to The Information Commissioner's Office - http://www.ico.gov.uk/ You can ring them on 01625 545 745.

When will Virgin Media Implement this system with Phorm?

Virgin Media have simply stated that they have not decided yet what they are doing or what options are there for the customers. The bottom line is, they need to be fully consulting with the customer and we will be making sure that they provide relevant information to the customer and what options will be available to them.

Is there anything I can download to prevent this 'Intrusion' i.e stopping the data analysis being collected by my ISP and passed on to the likes of Phorm?

Yes there is, its called Tor and can be downloaded Free from http://www.torproject.org/. Please make sure you read the documentation before you decide to download and use it. Please note that use of this software is at your own risk.

--

Mikey845 18-02-2008 17:10

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I hate ads relevant or not:mad:, I do not like the idea of having my surfing habits tracked to provide me with a direct ad "service".:erm: I've already contacted VM to find out how I can opt out. Does privacy mean bugger all to anyone?

Sirius 18-02-2008 17:20

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34491388)
Haven't seen this posted anywhere else... Forgive me if it has...

From the story posted yesterday, here.

What do you make of this and would you be opting out, by opting out you are telling Virgin Media, you do not want your surfing habbits tracked and this information given to a third party?

I will definitely want to opt out .

dilli-theclaw 18-02-2008 17:20

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
No I don't think its a good idea.

Sirius 18-02-2008 17:21

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34491388)
Haven't seen this posted anywhere else... Forgive me if it has...

From the story posted yesterday, here.

What do you make of this and would you be opting out, by opting out you are telling Virgin Media, you do not want your surfing habbits tracked and this information given to a third party?

Is there any information on this and how to opt out.

Mick 18-02-2008 17:22

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I have asked VM today - awaiting a response, coming soon. :p:

Sirius 18-02-2008 17:26

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34491412)
I have asked VM today - awaiting a response, coming soon. :p:

Thanks Mick

PeteTheMusicGuy 18-02-2008 17:27

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
it's a very bad idea

Toto 18-02-2008 17:31

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Well, I don't have anything to hide, and as I shop online for a lot of goods and services. This could be a good thing, but it might not be.

If I suspect though that the cookies are taking to much information, I can make some basic changes in my browser (see sig picture) that should block them.

xspeedyx 18-02-2008 17:33

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I dont want my info on web habits to be sent to companies bad idea VM boo

Sirius 18-02-2008 17:34

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34491429)
Well, I don't have anything to hide, and as I shop online for a lot of goods and services. This could be a good thing, but it might not be.

If I suspect though that the cookies are taking to much information, I can make some basic changes in my browser (see sig picture) that should block them.

It's yet another of Virgins greed decisions. I for one do not want it and WILL be opting out. Unfortunately i don't think Virgin will release the information on how to opt out if it means they lose money.

Maggy 18-02-2008 17:35

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Does it mean I will get my VM services cheaper?No I think not so the answer would no.

daz300 18-02-2008 17:41

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
if they pay me for the info then maybe .

punky 18-02-2008 18:15

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Not only will be opting out but i'd probably cancel my account with VM.

Its one thing to have VM knowing your surfing habits but its entirely another thing to pass the details to another 3rd party that is completely unaccountable and unmonitorable (if such a word exists). Its not about having anything to hide about a particular site that people view as most people would have nothing to fear, but data mining (the process by which anonymous bits of data are matched together using filters and sequences). Given an IP as a tracker, and a list of URLs it would be quite easy to build a big profile up and match the data with real people. And any rogue employee at Phorm can do it with the data access can do it.

MovedGoalPosts 18-02-2008 18:15

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
It's one thing visiting a specific website and they track your habits about your specific visit. It's quite another being tracked across the internet. I beleive that is called spyware :(

TehTech 18-02-2008 18:18

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by darthlinux (Post 34491431)
I dont want my info on web habits to be sent to companies bad idea VM boo

Totally agree with you there dl!

What was is I saw in a thread a few days ago about internet privacy??

Although, having said that, I got FF secured as tight as I can make it, in the past 3 years, I have never seen ANY adds or popups at all thanks to ff & the extensions!

You can bet your life I will be checking my cookies a number of times a day to make sure no such rubbish is stored on my computer.

I actually thought that it was illegal to track internet usage & to serve up ads, weather or not they are relevant?

When VM do this, I will be straight on the phone to them and they will have ANOTHER unhappy chappy on their line giving them what for!


EDIT:

If I want to check something out, I google it and then browse through the results, I have never once clicked an ad or anything that has popped up, I dont care how damn relevant it is, if I want to buy any product, I will go to a reputable (re)seller, I dont go flagrantly clicking links just because it has something that MIGHT interest me!

Stuart 18-02-2008 18:21

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34491429)
Well, I don't have anything to hide, and as I shop online for a lot of goods and services. This could be a good thing, but it might not be.

If I suspect though that the cookies are taking to much information, I can make some basic changes in my browser (see sig picture) that should block them.

Why on earth would they need to use cookies? They can probably obtain this information from either their DNS servers or (more likely) track you using the UBRs.

If that's the case, your choice of browser will be irrelevant.

Also, if you think blocking popups/ads will help, comcast have, I believe, been doing a lot of work in html rewriting, so they may just be able to embed the ad in your page regardless (as comcast did).

dav 18-02-2008 18:24

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I'll be opting out asap.

I can't believe that with all the data privacy laws and such that VM can get away with this.

If the police etc were collecting data on a suspect, possibly linked to criminal activity, wouldn't they need a warrant to monitor their web traffic? How is it different, just because it is 'advertising'? It's still snooping.

TehTech 18-02-2008 18:24

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34491466)
Why on earth would they need to use cookies? They can probably obtain this information from either their DNS servers or (more likely) track you using the UBRs.

If that's the case, your choice of browser will be irrelevant.

Also, if you think blocking popups/ads will help, comcast have, I believe, been doing a lot of work in html rewriting, so they may just be able to embed the ad in your page regardless (as comcast did).

BUT surely if you have cookies turned off in your browser, then they cant track, or have i got it wrong (again)?

Stuart 18-02-2008 18:29

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Be interesting to see if the DPA applies. Mr Angry would probably know this, but I think the Data Protection Act would apply if any personally identifiable data is passed to the other company from Virgin (I don't know if this ID number they are planning to use would be counted as personal data, as it would be tied indirectly to you).

For the record, if I used Virgin for broadband, I would either be expecting some sort of compensation for this data I am helpfully providing them, or cancel my account.

---------- Post added at 18:29 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by TehTech (Post 34491469)
BUT surely if you have cookies turned off in your browser, then they cant track, or have i got it wrong (again)?

They don't need cookies. Even if the UBRs can't log who is downloading what, technically it would be relatively easy to install equipment that does. They could bring back the proxies and use them to do this, for instance.

Sirius 18-02-2008 18:31

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Well from what i have seen here so far they will have to allow me 1 of the following.

Opt out

Disconnect

VIRGIN what will it be ?

iglu 18-02-2008 18:32

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Apparently you can switch it on and off at will

http://www.phorm.com/

How it works:

*Ntl gives phorm a random number and the web page you are looking

*Phorm gives NTl the relevant ad together with the number

*NTl pops the ads on your screen, they know your IP as it is associated with the random number returned by Phorm

Sirius 18-02-2008 18:34

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
http://www.phorm.com/about/faq.php?_...6,17,18,19#isp

http://webwise.com/ NOTE that Virgin Media are missing from that website

cookster 18-02-2008 18:35

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iglu (Post 34491480)
Apparently you can switch it on and off at will

http://www.phorm.com/

How it works:

*Ntl gives phorm a random number and the web page you are looking

*Phorm gives NTl the relevant ad together with the number

*NTl pops the ads on your screen, they know your IP as it is associated with the random number returned by Phorm

I'll be opting out then!!!

Stuart 18-02-2008 18:37

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34491482)

Ahh, so they are stealing advertising revenue from sites, such as, say, this one.

Sirius 18-02-2008 18:38

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34491486)
Ahh, so they are stealing advertising revenue from sites, such as, say, this one.

Thats Virgin Media for you.

Boy i bet this thread grows pretty dam fast

dav 18-02-2008 18:38

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iglu (Post 34491480)
Apparently you can switch it on and off at will

http://www.phorm.com/

How it works:

*Ntl gives phorm a random number and the web page you are looking

*Phorm gives NTl the relevant ad together with the number

*NTl pops the ads on your screen, they know your IP as it is associated with the random number returned by Phorm


From what I've just read there, it isn't so clear

Quote:

With OIX and Webwise, consumers are in control: they can switch relevance 'off' or 'on' at any time at Webwise.com. There's no small print and no catches: it's completely up to the consumer.
To me that reads as if you can choose relevant ads or irrelevant ones.
Have I got the wrong end of the stick?

iglu 18-02-2008 18:39

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34491482)
[url]
http://webwise.com/ NOTE that Virgin Media are missing from that website

It is here ;)

http://www.phorm.com/isp_partners/

MovedGoalPosts 18-02-2008 18:39

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Why should I have to opt out. I should have to opt in :mad:

Sirius 18-02-2008 18:40

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by iglu (Post 34491489)

but thats not the site for turning off there spyware

Lets face it. This is another shafting from Virgin

TehTech 18-02-2008 18:42

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34491482)
http://www.phorm.com/about/faq.php?_...6,17,18,19#isp

http://webwise.com/ NOTE that Virgin Media are missing from that website

Thanks for that link, I have just had a quick browse through it, and time & time again, the 1 word that they like to use is "PRIVACY"

How in gods name can they serve RELEVANT ads to joe Bloggs and say that they dont store browsing habits? how on earth do they do it then if they dont store these details, I mean, if they dont store details, how they supposed to give the user relevant ads?

bonzoe 18-02-2008 18:43

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I shall be opting out, can see absolutely no reason to want this rubbish!

Paul 18-02-2008 18:44

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Did I miss something - dont data protection laws mean you have to opt in to sharing your data, not out ?

MovedGoalPosts 18-02-2008 18:50

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
VM's Terms & Conditions:

Quote:

Originally Posted by VM
Section G, clause 3

We may also, subject to your consent:

1. use your personal information for the purposes of marketing our products and services to you; and
2. use your personal information for the purposes of marketing the products and services of other Virgin companies (e.g. Virgin Atlantic) to you,
and we may disclose your personal information to other Virgin companies and our sub-contractors and agents for these marketing purposes.

I see nothing in there about disclosure of personal details to third parties, other than the Virgin Group. I see nothing in there about doing so without my consent. As far as I am concerned my internet use habits represent my personal details, especially if I'm visiting secure sites such as personal banking.

And from the Privacy Policy

Quote:

Originally Posted by VM
Disclosing your information

<snip>

We will not pass on your personal information to third parties except in accordance with this policy and our Terms and Conditions or where we are required by law to disclose that information.

Looks pretty clear to me that VM would be in breach of their own consumer contracts. But then we know how they like to run roughshod over them and change at will.

grimwau 18-02-2008 18:52

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Looks like my adblocker will be working overtime then.

TehTech 18-02-2008 18:55

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Why dont they (VM) just go full hog & "install" a VM rep inside your home, sat right next to you at your pc with a notebook & pen?

Its basically the same thing, whatever next from the 2 bit pile of donkey dung that they call a "BUSINESS"??

punky 18-02-2008 18:56

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 34491508)
VM's Terms & Conditions:



I see nothing in there about disclosure of personal details to third parties, other than the Virgin Group. I see nothing in there about doing so without my consent. As far as I am concerned my internet use habits represent my personal details, especially if I'm visiting secure sites such as personal banking.

And from the Privacy Policy



Looks pretty clear to me that VM would be in breach of their own consumer contracts. But then we know how they like to run roughshod over them and change at will.

They can update those whenever and however they want though?

bonzoe 18-02-2008 18:57

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 34491508)
VM's Terms & Conditions:

<snip>
Looks pretty clear to me that VM would be in breach of their own consumer contracts. But then we know how they like to run roughshod over them and change at will.

As you say, if the lawyers think it's necessary, they'll just change the T&Cs to fit.

Sirius 18-02-2008 19:05

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I have a theory.

There are a group of numpty's that travel from company to company with the sole intention of destroying it. At the moment i thinks its Virgins turn to have the numpty's working for them in the "What a good idea department"

Delta Whiskey 18-02-2008 19:07

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I don't see any on-page/pop-up/pop-under ads, Firefox & AdBlock Plus are your friends.

Griffin 18-02-2008 19:09

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I got an ad blocking program on a disc that used to block all ads weather they were Embedded or pop up, if VM go ahead with this fool of a scheme i will just install it again

Sirius 18-02-2008 19:20

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffin (Post 34491544)
I got an ad blocking program on a disc that used to block all ads weather they were Embedded or pop up, if VM go ahead with this fool of a scheme i will just install it again

I have been using adblock for a good year or so and it works fine for me. My problem here is the fact that it looks like VM are going to ride rough shod over the customers privacy. VM no doubt will change the contract to suit them so they can give your private information to this company that they have signed up with..

MovedGoalPosts 18-02-2008 19:25

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Ad block pop up blocker things aren't the answer though. You might not see the ad, but it is still there. The real concern is the system of generating the ad, which has somehow been monitoring your personal browsing habits. That is big brother territory. It's that monitoring that has to be prevented, not the ad itself.

By contrast, google adsense and other systems generate content relative to the page that is being read. Yes some may find those ads annoying, but they haven't intruded on private browsing habits to do so. All they know is what the website is displaying.

Sirius 18-02-2008 19:34

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 34491557)
Ad block pop up blocker things aren't the answer though. You might not see the ad, but it is still there. The real concern is the system of generating the ad, which has somehow been monitoring your personal browsing habits. That is big brother territory. It's that monitoring that has to be prevented, not the ad itself.

By contrast, google adsense and other systems generate content relative to the page that is being read. Yes some may find those ads annoying, but they haven't intruded on private browsing habits to do so. All they know is what the website is displaying.

Rob

I fully agree i just dont like adds fullstop m8.

Sirpingalot 18-02-2008 20:08

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
it's an invasion of privacy and therefore a breach of the law..?

Mick 18-02-2008 20:14

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Clearly six people who have voted 'No' so far are happy to have their privacy intruded upon. They have voted no but haven't included their reasons to why they wouldn't mind.

This is like allowing a stranger to read a paper at the same time as you. This like saying you wouldn't bat an eyelid if someone stared into your house through your windows.

How strange - but then again we do live in a strange world.

dev 18-02-2008 20:42

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TehTech (Post 34491496)
How in gods name can they serve RELEVANT ads to joe Bloggs and say that they dont store browsing habits? how on earth do they do it then if they dont store these details, I mean, if they dont store details, how they supposed to give the user relevant ads?

there is store and there is "store", the data will be recieved, processed to generate an ad, then deleted. therefore it would only be stored for a short amount of time.

haven't voted yet, but, how is this any different to any other contextual based advertising such as google adsense?

mr_bo 18-02-2008 21:16

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
This is awful and indigitive of the big brother state we are becomming. :mad:

I would opt out/cancel if I were still with VM but how long will it take for the other isp's to cash in?

eddcase 18-02-2008 21:42

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
It's a bit naive to believe that your browsing habits are private. Surfing leaves an electronic footprint; ads or no ads.

Schemes like this are designed to cash in on the data that exists. You may avoid targeted ads if you opt out; but opting out to preserve privacy is like closing your eyes to make the big bad wolf go away.

MovedGoalPosts 18-02-2008 22:51

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I know that if I visit site A Site A will collect some data on my browsing and use of that site. If I visit site B, the same will happen. If I return to site A, that site remembers me, and may offer me some information based on my last visit.

What I so not expect is that having visited site V, I find that site V continues to track my browsing of both visits to site V, but also lets site X know that I'm visiting site A & B, so that site X can tell site C what ad to display when I go there. That isn't privacy in any form whatsoever.

For a long while VM, or at least the old NTL Ts& Cs or AUP said they didn't track what what it's users were doing. When did that dissappear and why wasn't I told as to me that is a very significant change in what they, my ISP can do.

73arm3 18-02-2008 22:51

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
This is absolutely absurd, how can they be allowed to pass on your details to a 3rd party without your consent? surely this breaks the law under the data protection act?

Web-Junkie 18-02-2008 23:08

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
God this is as bad as going down your local shopping centre and having leaflets thrust in your face every 5 steps that you didn't ask for!

As far as I'm aware it's ME that decides what to buy and where to shop not some ad company trying to force unsolicited 'virtual leaflets' in my face!

TehTech 18-02-2008 23:54

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Web-Junkie (Post 34491715)
God this is as bad as going down your local shopping centre and having leaflets thrust in your face every 5 steps that you didn't ask for!

As far as I'm aware it's ME that decides what to buy and where to shop not some ad company trying to force unsolicited 'virtual leaflets' in my face!

:tu: :tu: :tu:

BenMcr 19-02-2008 00:00

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
More here, here, here and here

Quote:

Phorm’s platform connects the Internet Service Providers with advertisers and Web sites, allowing online ads to be targeted according to a user’s anonymous browsing trends.
Quote:

Phorm’s platform remembers the subjects a user has searched for and links this information to a user profile. The actual users and their Internet numbers remain anonymous.
Quote:

The system tracks recent sites visited by the user and any keywords they have entered to search engines to identify their interests, but replaces their identifying details with a random number that cannot be traced back.

“We cannot know who you are or where you’ve been,” said Kent Ertugrul, chief executive.
Quote:

Phorm (LSE: PHRX.L - news) 's technology will provide the ISPs with a new online advertising platform, the Open Internet Exchange, which will enable targeted advertising based on the search and browsing habits of the service providers customers, although the system anonymises the ISP data thereby safeguarding online privacy by protecting the identity of the consumers.
And from Virgin's own privacy policy

Quote:

Disclosing your information
Here's when we may provide information about you:

To employees and agents of Virgin Media to deal with any accounts, products and services provided to you by Virgin Media now or in the future.
With your agreement, to Virgin Media group companies and other Virgin companies (e.g. Virgin Atlantic), whose products and services may be of interest to you.
To search the files of a credit reference agency, which will keep a record of that search, when you apply for service. Additionally, details of how you conduct your account may also be disclosed to the agency. This information may be used by other organisations in assessing applications from you and members of your household.
We may use aggregate information and statistics for the purposes of monitoring web site usage in order to help us develop the web site and our service and may provide such aggregate information to third parties for example content partners and advertisers. These statistics will not include information that can be used to identify any individual for example, '10,000 people clicked on an advertisement yesterday'. We will not pass on your personal information to third parties except in accordance with this policy and our Terms and Conditions or where we are required by law to disclose that information.

TehTech 19-02-2008 00:13

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
But the thing is, they say they "store" all the sites you visit & the searches, HOW LONG do they keep the data to make up this "profile"??

For instance, I will come on here, catch up on the new posts & threads, then I will probably close my browser for a bit, remember I need to check something on ebay, then close again, later on I'm back on here catching up, follow any interesting links like news stories & the like, then back here again.

Will they track ALL of this, or just the current internet session, and when the browser is closed, so is their "profile"?

Quote:

The system tracks recent sites visited by the user and any keywords they have entered to search engines to identify their interests, but replaces their identifying details with a random number that cannot be traced back.
So they DO have indentifying information about us at first, BUT what if there is a "computer error" or a "bug" in some of their software, or as someone mentioned earlier about the change of a "dodgy" worker that can access such details? And we ALL know that if something gets deleted, there is a good chance it can be recovered again!


If I wanted people watching what I do online, I'd link up a massive video screen wall in the middle of the town centre so they could watch!

Any sort of an update on how to opt-out of this rubbish?
Whats the betting their website crashes cos of too many people opting out at once :D :D

Chicken 19-02-2008 00:29

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
So, this is different to Google AdSense ?

Stuart 19-02-2008 00:36

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken (Post 34491762)
So, this is different to Google AdSense ?

Adsense works by checking the text on the page being displayed (this is why you frequently get ads on this site that have nothing to do with Virgin Media, Cable or even the Internet). There is no personally identifyable data retrieved or sent to adsense.

This system works by tracking (and presumably keeping a record of) your browsing habits. This is the main problem I have with it.

Also, one other thing. How would it cope with public internet access terminals (such as those in Cyber Cafes)? You could go in one, and find that thanks to the viewing habits of those who used the terminal before you, their targetted advertising system sends you ads for hardcore porn, online pharmacies and nazi memorabilia.

eddcase 19-02-2008 00:38

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TehTech (Post 34491755)
If I wanted people watching what I do online, I'd link up a massive video screen wall in the middle of the town centre so they could watch!

Somebody already decided it would be a good idea to take your picture umpteen times when you're in the town centre. Coupled with our spending habits and online activity, we're owned already.

Internet privacy is an illusion :disturbd:

TehTech 19-02-2008 00:39

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34491765)
Adsense works by checking the text on the page being displayed (this is why you frequently get ads on this site that have nothing to do with Virgin Media, Cable or even the Internet). There is no personally identifyable data retrieved or sent to adsense.

This system works by tracking (and presumably keeping a record of) your browsing habits. This is the main problem I have with it.

Which brings me back to my question: how long will they keep this data for?
To build a sucessful profile of someone's browsing habits could take a long time, especially for occasional users.

danielf 19-02-2008 00:40

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 34491749)
More here, here, here and here

Taken from that third link:

Quote:

Phorm, an Aim-listed advertising technology company, has struck agreements with BT, Carphone Warehouse’s TalkTalk broadband business and Virgin Media, which account for about 70 per cent of the UK broadband market, to use its online advertising platform.
This is extremely worrying imo. Seventy percent of the UK's BB subscribers are affected, and 90% of the people that voted here object. I'm not with any of the 'big three' at present but I'd consider cancelling my subscription over this if I was. Let's hope the general populace opt out en masse and send the message to ISPs that this stuff is not acceptable.

Mick 19-02-2008 00:43

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken (Post 34491762)
So, this is different to Google AdSense ?

Yes it is - It's a lot different to that - It's been explained already that ads served on sites which use Google Adsense are served based on content already on the webpage.

The ads served by this new system will involve intrusive spying on what sites web users visit and this information being passed about willy nilly, just so a quick buck can be made.

It's quite unacceptable this and that the bottom line is that this is just like a basic Spyware process, but on a more massive scale.

However, bizarre as it may seem - according to the poll so far, seven people think its okay... Though I bet they would kick up a scream if we all camped outside their house for the day and peered through their windows, but I could be guessing wrong after all, they wouldn't mind it, seeing as they wouldn't mind this.

TehTech 19-02-2008 00:55

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Shame its a private poll, would be interesting to see the few that have stated they dont mind, see if a "profile" can be created of these people by checking up on previous posts & threads, and then make assumptions based on what was found, bet they wouldnt be so happy about that! :angel: ;) :)

dev 19-02-2008 01:11

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34491765)
Adsense works by checking the text on the page being displayed (this is why you frequently get ads on this site that have nothing to do with Virgin Media, Cable or even the Internet). There is no personally identifyable data retrieved or sent to adsense.

there is no personally identifyable data sent to phorm either. both google and phorm can tell what sites you visit (cableforum's ad blocks will have an id, google record how many times people visit those ads so they both record).

from what i can tell, all phorm is doing is what google are doing now, but increasing the capturing area. they aren't going to insert ads randomly, it'll just be like googles ads, the web site sticks some code in the html and phorm sort the ads out.

TehTech 19-02-2008 01:16

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dev (Post 34491782)
there is no personally identifyable data sent to phorm either. both google and phorm can tell what sites you visit (cableforum's ad blocks will have an id, google record how many times people visit those ads so they both record).

from what i can tell, all phorm is doing is what google are doing now, but increasing the capturing area. they aren't going to insert ads randomly, it'll just be like googles ads, the web site sticks some code in the html and phorm sort the ads out.

But with Googe doing such, I dont get to see ads at all, this is the way I want it to stay!

When your browsing the net, well for me anyway, i wouldnt appreciate having ads all over the page, ads also take up space on the page, so the page loads slower too, and as I'm not the only one, I dont want bloody ads on the pages I browse.

Mostly when I use any search (like google or Wikipedia) its just general things I am interested in, like if I watch a film on TV and I like it, I will google or wiki it to find out all the info, I dont want ads diplayed, just the info I need.

Horace 19-02-2008 01:17

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
It's funny that when these things come around peoples first response is they don't have anything to hide. The point is you shouldn't have to even state that. It's irrelevant. If the postman was to open your letters in order to work out which junk mail to add to your mail you wouldn't be stating your innocence. The first problem I have here if this gets implemented is working out which ISP to move to.

Stuart 19-02-2008 01:20

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dev (Post 34491782)
there is no personally identifyable data sent to phorm either. both google and phorm can tell what sites you visit (cableforum's ad blocks will have an id, google record how many times people visit those ads so they both record).

from what i can tell, all phorm is doing is what google are doing now, but increasing the capturing area. they aren't going to insert ads randomly, it'll just be like googles ads, the web site sticks some code in the html and phorm sort the ads out.

Actually, wrong. Google know the numbers of people clicking through, but don't get any personally identifyable number for each user (beyond their IP which would get transmitted whatever system was in use). Google's system can also be blocked by various ad blockers, which would prevent google recieving any data.

The phorm system relies on a random number which, for their tracking to work would have to be stored somewhere, with records of what that users has browsed (I know the site doesn't state this, but it's the only way I can see that such a system would target the ads). The ISP would store the random number, as well as personal details (such as CM Mac address and even account details). Someone with a modicum of hacking skills (or even someone who found dodgy employees in both companies) could obtain access to both these databases.

Yes, you have the opt out, but you only have their word that they are not still storing the data, even if you don't get the ads.

Would you still feel the same way if you found out that (say) the Post Office developed a technology that would enable them to read your letters without opening them, store that data and use it to target junk mail?

dev 19-02-2008 01:22

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TehTech (Post 34491784)
But with Googe doing such, I dont get to see ads at all, this is the way I want it to stay!

When your browsing the net, well for me anyway, i wouldnt appreciate having ads all over the page, ads also take up space on the page, so the page loads slower too, and as I'm not the only one, I dont want bloody ads on the pages I browse.

Mostly when I use any search (like google or Wikipedia) its just general things I am interested in, like if I watch a film on TV and I like it, I will google or wiki it to find out all the info, I dont want ads diplayed, just the info I need.

did you read what i said?

from what i can tell, its another ad serving network just with a different way of making the targeted ads. dont want to see them? add the domains to whatever ad blocker you use just like you do with google ads. they aren't magical ads that aren't blockable :rolleyes:

TehTech 19-02-2008 01:32

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dev (Post 34491788)
did you read what i said?

from what i can tell, its another ad serving network just with a different way of making the targeted ads. dont want to see them? add the domains to whatever ad blocker you use just like you do with google ads. they aren't magical ads that aren't blockable :rolleyes:

But like was said earlier, you might not get these ads on your webpages, but the fact is they are STILL colleting this information, as it is done through the ISP's side.

Something just hit me, with all the news of this tracking & ads, what's it going to do for the privacy bit thats going on with how the govenment wants ISP's to look at all packets being sent & recieved to TRY to prevent piracy, makes me shudder to think what's going to be next...

Mick 19-02-2008 01:36

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dev (Post 34491788)
did you read what i said?

from what i can tell, its another ad serving network just with a different way of making the targeted ads. dont want to see them? add the domains to whatever ad blocker you use just like you do with google ads. they aren't magical ads that aren't blockable :rolleyes:

You are missing the issue here - Your web surfing, all sites you ever visit, get tracked and this information passed on to a third party by your own ISP regardless of any 'Spyware' blocking software you have active and sitting in your systray. I don't think people are actually worried about the advert being shown process, we can all block an ad if we wanted to, but its how the whole thing is being done, before that ad is being served that is quite ludicrous.

Stuart 19-02-2008 01:51

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
And further to Mick's point (also repeating my own from above): While you can opt out of this advertising system, you have to trust they are not recording your browsing habits. If you block a Google ad, there is no way on earth Google will be able to track you through that ad. Yes, their is some evidence that they store any searches you make against your IP, and store gmail indefinately, but you do have the option not to use Google for searching, and to use email services other than gmail.

In essence, you can block Google's tracking relatively easily, whatever form it takes. You cannot actually block phorm from tracking you. You can opt out, and hope they don't track you, but you cannot be entirely sure, and even if you did find out you were being tracked against your wishes, you would need evidence and potentially a lot of money to take action against them.

georgepomone 19-02-2008 02:17

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Hi All,
if they post ads based on my surfing habits they will be really worth seeing.
George;)

Mick Fisher 19-02-2008 04:59

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eddcase (Post 34491766)
Somebody already decided it would be a good idea to take your picture umpteen times when you're in the town centre. Coupled with our spending habits and online activity, we're owned already.

Internet privacy is an illusion :disturbd:

Speak for yourself. I haven't rolled over yet and never will.

dav 19-02-2008 07:47

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I assume that both VM and Phorm will make money on the ads we click on that have been pushed on us by Phorm?

If this is the case, do what I do and don't give them an incentive to push these things on us. Make it uneconomical for them to continue this 'service' by not clicking on any pop-up or embedded ads. As soon as the click-throughs and hence the revenue streams dry up they'll have to reconsider.

I'll opt out, but I also have a personal policy of NEVER clicking on-screen ads. If I want something, I'll find it myself.

I'm still heavily against my browsing habits being tracked by a 3rd party and will be contacting VM as soon as more details become available.

Akia 19-02-2008 10:52

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I'm not bothered by it.

People seem to be missing one valid point though. If it means people will be served more relevent ads, its means more chance that they will click them. Which means more money for the site that you are visiting. How long would this forum stay online for if everyone used ad blocking software?

melevittfl 19-02-2008 12:12

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34491787)

The phorm system relies on a random number which, for their tracking to work would have to be stored somewhere, with records of what that users has browsed (I know the site doesn't state this, but it's the only way I can see that such a system would target the ads). The ISP would store the random number, as well as personal details (such as CM Mac address and even account details). Someone with a modicum of hacking skills (or even someone who found dodgy employees in both companies) could obtain access to both these databases.

Actually, it's worse than that. In 2006 AOL accidently released data on what their customers search for over a three month period. They assigned each customer a random number to hid their identity.

However, just by looking at all the searches that, say 2343453 did in a week, it was possible to determine people's personal information in many cases.

For example, I might visit the website for my local town, then my bank, then a website that uses my username as part of the URL. Now they know where I live, what bank I use and at least one alias. A quick google search might find other places where my alias is used along with my real name, etc.

If you want to read about what happened with AOL, there's a good article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/te...08cnd-aol.html

So, there doesn't need to be any collusion between both companies. The data provides enough information for people to discover identities.

---------- Post added at 12:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akia (Post 34491896)
I'm not bothered by it.

Not bothered by loosing your privacy?

Care to post how much you earn and where you live?

MovedGoalPosts 19-02-2008 12:25

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Yes websites do rely on advertising. Before Google Adsense, this site was totally reliant on donations and the goodwill of the team at that time to pay for the server costs. es people find ads annoying and a balance needs to be struck so they are visible but not obtrusive. Those who opt out by use of ad blockers fair enough, but it's like the dimminishing returns TV advertisers are seeinng. One day the quality of your user experience will drop if the income doesn't pay the outgoings.

Adsense and similar systems can at most only know what the website owner knows about their visitor, i.e. which pages / web content on that site the visitor has seen. Ads are at most targeted to the webspace being viewed, rather than the user.

This proposed phorn method of serving ads is so much more invasive of the user's privacy than previous methods. It is clearly big brother technology. That somehow my webbrowsing habits are being tracked "annonymously" but they aren't annonymous since somehow my identity is allocated a random numer (a database allocation must control that which somehow must identify me so it isn't anonymous), makes it vulnerable. In turn, somehow the website's thaht serve up this system of ads, will be able to link me to the random number. Wouldn't take that much before the phisher type scammers work out how to use this random number against me.

I wonder what OFCOM and the Data Protection Commissioner have to say about all this?

Mick 19-02-2008 13:13

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Update:

Just got off the phone from the Virgin Media press office.

Basically VM haven't implemented anything yet so this is no where near launch. BT are apparently a step further and trialling it with 10,000 customers.

I raised the issue that customers should be given the choice to opt in, not the other way round. VM are looking at this process and are said to be finalising arrangements regarding this, nothing has been agreed yet.

At the moment - the option to opt out, the process involves a visit to a website, webwise and to tick a check box as to whether you want the service or not. This then stores a *cookie* on your computer.

I have asked we be sent some clear clarification on the whole process as there appears to be some ambiguity regarding how this all works.

I'll update this thread as and when I get more information.

hokkers999 19-02-2008 13:19

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dav (Post 34491831)
I assume that both VM and Phorm will make money on the ads we click on that have been pushed on us by Phorm?

If this is the case, do what I do and don't give them an incentive to push these things on us. Make it uneconomical for them to continue this 'service' by not clicking on any pop-up or embedded ads. As soon as the click-throughs and hence the revenue streams dry up they'll have to reconsider.

I'll opt out, but I also have a personal policy of NEVER clicking on-screen ads. If I want something, I'll find it myself.

I'm still heavily against my browsing habits being tracked by a 3rd party and will be contacting VM as soon as more details become available.

Or do the exact opposite and click on EVERY ad on the screen! Why? The advertiser pays for that click, when they have to pay for millions of clicks and never get any income eventually they'll get the message...

lardboy 19-02-2008 13:30

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34491957)
Update:

At the moment - the option to opt out, the process involves a visit to a website, webwise and to tick a check box as to whether you want the service or not. This then stores a *cookie* on your computer.

Do you think they mean a cookie the same as the cookies I clear off my system every time I've finished browsing? So this will be a per session option, everytime I start browsing I have to "opt out". That doesn't seem right I'd assumed it would be an ISP side setting.

Would using a proxy stop this tracking? Surely all their records would show would be the address of the proxy.

checker 19-02-2008 13:32

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I have enough junk through my letter box, which I return in the envelope provided, minus my address of course. I don't require any more via my PC thank you. I have not and never will buy anything from unsolicited advertising. If I require a service I will look for it. Guess if I voted yes or no.:mad:

MovedGoalPosts 19-02-2008 13:58

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I can see why they want it to be an opt out process. Who is going to opt in? and if they don't opt in then the system won't be of benefit to advertisers? If it's opt out, many will simply not do so, through apathy, or even ignorance that the system exists.

Opt out should place nothing on my computer(s). Would I have to do that for every computer I use, and as stated above, if I clear my cookies or whatever, would I have to go through the rigmarole again? Too many, questions, not enough clarity or answers yet.

Sirius 19-02-2008 14:07

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I have just got off the phone to CS and asked them to add a note to my account stating that should this be a OP out i will be cancelling my service.

MovedGoalPosts 19-02-2008 14:11

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34491984)
I have just got off the phone to CS and asked them to add a note to my account stating that should this be a OP out i will be cancelling my service.

Troouble is, will the "powers that be" who make the decisions on this sort of stuff, get to know of your intent, before this is actually commenced.

Equally, with apparently the large ISPs already signed to this, and no doubt others taking a strong interest in it, where do you go to reliably avoid it :(

JadeFalcon 19-02-2008 14:25

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
i think you will find it is illegal to share customers details with anybody unless you have given strict permission to give that information out due to the data protection act, that is why you get tick boxes on applications and such stuff that allow you to opt in or out of having your details released to a 3rd party, as an opt out this would, imho, be illegal as it is in direct breach of the data protection

article 59 of the data protection act follows (have bolded the main points)--------

59 Confidentiality of information

(1) No person who is or has been the Commissioner, a member of the Commissioner’s staff or an agent of the Commissioner shall disclose any information which—
(a) has been obtained by, or furnished to, the Commissioner under or for the purposes of this Act,
(b) relates to an identified or identifiable individual or business, and
(c) is not at the time of the disclosure, and has not previously been, available to the public from other sources,
unless the disclosure is made with lawful authority.
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) a disclosure of information is made with lawful authority only if, and to the extent that—
(a) the disclosure is made with the consent of the individual or of the person for the time being carrying on the business,

(b) the information was provided for the purpose of its being made available to the public (in whatever manner) under any provision of this Act,
(c) the disclosure is made for the purposes of, and is necessary for, the discharge of—
(i) any functions under this Act, or
(ii) any Community obligation,
(d) the disclosure is made for the purposes of any proceedings, whether criminal or civil and whether arising under, or by virtue of, this Act or otherwise, or
(e) having regard to the rights and freedoms or legitimate interests of any person, the disclosure is necessary in the public interest.
(3) Any person who knowingly or recklessly discloses information in contravention of subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.

also section 55

55 Unlawful obtaining etc. of personal data

(1) A person must not knowingly or recklessly, without the consent of the data controller—
(a) obtain or disclose personal data or the information contained in personal data, or
(b) procure the disclosure to another person of the information contained in personal data.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a person who shows—
(a) that the obtaining, disclosing or procuring—
(i) was necessary for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime, or
(ii) was required or authorised by or under any enactment, by any rule of law or by the order of a court,
(b) that he acted in the reasonable belief that he had in law the right to obtain or disclose the data or information or, as the case may be, to procure the disclosure of the information to the other person,
(c) that he acted in the reasonable belief that he would have had the consent of the data controller if the data controller had known of the obtaining, disclosing or procuring and the circumstances of it, or
(d) that in the particular circumstances the obtaining, disclosing or procuring was justified as being in the public interest.
(3) A person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.
(4) A person who sells personal data is guilty of an offence if he has obtained the data in contravention of subsection (1).
(5) A person who offers to sell personal data is guilty of an offence if—
(a) he has obtained the data in contravention of subsection (1), or
(b) he subsequently obtains the data in contravention of that subsection.
(6) For the purposes of subsection (5), an advertisement indicating that personal data are or may be for sale is an offer to sell the data.
(7) Section 1(2) does not apply for the purposes of this section; and for the purposes of subsections (4) to (6), “personal data” includes information extracted from personal data.
(8) References in this section to personal data do not include references to personal data which by virtue of section 28 are exempt from this section.

Sirius 19-02-2008 14:29

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 34491986)
Troouble is, will the "powers that be" who make the decisions on this sort of stuff, get to know of your intent, before this is actually commenced.

Equally, with apparently the large ISPs already signed to this, and no doubt others taking a strong interest in it, where do you go to reliably avoid it :(

Its a matter of principal. BE unlimited have at this time not signed up so it will be BEunlimited i move to.

bringerofnoise 19-02-2008 14:37

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Surely they will have let people know in writing about this "service" so that people will have the option of opting out? If they don't then we'll have to make sure we tell as many people as we can and they tell thier friends and so on making it useless anyway.

lol i opted out

jcardiff 19-02-2008 14:37

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeFalcon (Post 34491992)
i think you will find it is illegal to share customers details with anybody unless you have given strict permission to give that information out due to the data protection act, that is why you get tick boxes on applications and such stuff that allow you to opt in or out of having your details released to a 3rd party, as an opt out this would, imho, be illegal as it is in direct breach of the data protection

I think you will find after the goverment cleared the inland revenue, the immigration service and royal mail of all people the allowance to check your phone records that the supposed laws that would help us in this situation are now being rewritten, yet another nail in our privacy laws brought to you by new fascist- sorry new labour

Akia 19-02-2008 16:10

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by melevittfl (Post 34491941)

Care to post how much you earn and where you live?

Yup £18k and Sheffield.

Mick 19-02-2008 16:46

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Akia (Post 34492050)
Yup £18k and Sheffield.

Whilst you are keen to post this information - others are not and they are entitled to this privacy although I notice you didn't post your full address. So you are keen to keep some details private.

Toto 19-02-2008 16:50

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34491957)
Update:

Just got off the phone from the Virgin Media press office.

Basically VM haven't implemented anything yet so this is no where near launch. BT are apparently a step further and trialling it with 10,000 customers.

I raised the issue that customers should be given the choice to opt in, not the other way round. VM are looking at this process and are said to be finalising arrangements regarding this, nothing has been agreed yet.

At the moment - the option to opt out, the process involves a visit to a website, webwise and to tick a check box as to whether you want the service or not. This then stores a *cookie* on your computer.

I have asked we be sent some clear clarification on the whole process as there appears to be some ambiguity regarding how this all works.

I'll update this thread as and when I get more information.

Nice, thanks for that Mick

Sirius 19-02-2008 17:07

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Virgin Media sure know how to hit that self destruct button don't they ?

ceedee 19-02-2008 17:13

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34491957)
I'll update this thread as and when I get more information.

Please consider starting *another* thread (and making it sticky) with any important information you and others obtain.
Adding it into this already very busy thread will make it almost impossible for newcomers to locate and benefit from.

Thanks.

Mick 19-02-2008 17:19

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ceedee (Post 34492082)
Please consider starting *another* thread (and making it sticky) with any important information you and others obtain.
Adding it into this already very busy thread will make it almost impossible for newcomers to locate and benefit from.

Thanks.

Sorry but that would clutter up the place - One thread is enough - people can catch up with this in this thread, as well as the news item on the front page, to which this thread relates. There is also the search feature located at the top of every thread.

But I will reach a compromise and update the thread title with the post number which contains the uptodate information so it can be searched more easily.

ceedee 19-02-2008 17:36

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34492086)
Sorry but that would clutter up the place - One thread is enough - people can catch up with this in this thread, as well as the news item on the front page, to which this thread relates. There is also the search feature located at the top of every thread.

But I will reach a compromise and update the thread title with the post number which contains the uptodate information so it can be searched more easily.

It's obviously totally your choice but I'd recommend again:

One discussion thread, that'll quite likely extend to 20+ pages within a week and more once the new system goes live, and
A second announcement thread -- sticky and closed so only Mods can post perhaps -- purely for a summary of what's been uncovered so far. Probably only half a dozen posts.

If you came to the forum for the first time looking for vital information, which would you find easier?

ymmv

Akia 19-02-2008 17:36

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34492065)
Whilst you are keen to post this information - others are not and they are entitled to this privacy although I notice you didn't post your full address. So you are keen to keep some details private.

But the information is already out there. Just by searching this site you'll be able to find which company I work for, Which Dept, and what my job title is, By searching others you'll find my full address, telephone number along with my email.

Mick 19-02-2008 17:51

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Akia (Post 34492092)
But the information is already out there. Just by searching this site you'll be able to find which company I work for, Which Dept, and what my job title is. By searching others you'll find my full address, telephone number along with my email.

Sorry but you cannot get such information at all by searching this site.

You don't know my full address details as much as I don't know yours and I can search this site high and low - I will not find it because this site does not contain such information unless of course you have chosen to give this information out.

Sirius 19-02-2008 18:06

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Akia (Post 34492092)
But the information is already out there. Just by searching this site you'll be able to find which company I work for, Which Dept, and what my job title is, By searching others you'll find my full address, telephone number along with my email.

Ok here you go. If you are so adamant the info is out there.

Username sirius

i play games
been here a while

away you go tell me all the info you find about me ?

MovedGoalPosts 19-02-2008 18:08

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34492111)
Ok here you go.

Username sirius i play games away you go tell me all the info you find about me ? you have 24 hours

This could be a good game :D

punky 19-02-2008 18:13

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 34491983)
I can see why they want it to be an opt out process. Who is going to opt in?

For people not savvy enough to use Firefox/adblock, I should imagine seeing relative ads would be a lot better than random or content-targetted ads.

Not sure i'm happy about the opt-out process. Every time you clear your cookies you have to go to the site and request a new one?

Sirius 19-02-2008 18:13

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 34492112)
This could be a good game :D

;)


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