Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That's not the way I think, although I grant that many people do.

I don't want to turn this into a political thread, but with regard to the Phorm issue, I just think we need to kick a weak government when it is down, where it hurts.

10% tax band and fuel duty are mass issues, watch the twerps backpeddle on those. Phorm will never become a mass issue in a short timespan (but if it's implemented we will wear them down by blaming every fault on it).

We need to gather a vocal 'critical mass', use the UK & EU law where we can, the media where it's willing and just grind away. Take advantage of a weak government.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As a contributor to your book fund, you may see that I'm on your side. If this is a party, then I'm sorry to have dampened it. As for your contribution to this entire issue, I'm in awe of your energy and I hope you can use the work you've put in to this to positive effect. Perhaps Simon felt that way once? Maybe I'm older and more tired than you, but I've seen the inevitability - with or without our concerted efforts, this stuff is going to happen - like it or not. It's the way of the future - get used to it.

But if we can have a party in the meantime?

(See you on the 16th - I'll be the one with the anorak)

---------- Post added at 04:59 ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 ----------

In order to change it for what?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I just don't see what you hope to achieve by posting defeatist commentary, it serves no purpose. Clearly we believe we can make a difference or we would not be making as much noise as we are.

Your attitude seems to be, there is nothing we can do we are all doomed and slaves to the system, and I am sorry but I don't and never will see life that way; for as soon as one starts to believe that then life literally has no meaning.

I am no spring chicken and I am also tired and every day I get more and more tired, I sleep every couple of days at best for 4-6 hours. Neither am I naive, I have travelled extensively around the world and experienced many cultures and political regimes, I have studied society and government at an academic level; I am fully aware of how difficult the situation is but I would never lose hope.

I want my children to grow up in a free society (free as in liberty not as in beer) and I will fight until my last breath to try and secure that for them no matter what the odds, no matter who the adversary and no matter how tired I am; and the more people who do that, the stronger society becomes and the sooner we get rid of these political and corporate incumbents. Give up? No, it is not something I could do, our lives are our legacies, what defines the memories of those we leave behind when our lives end and I want my life to mean something and to influence change for a better tomorrow. I am a person, not a component, I don't exist to serve to the functioning of the machine, I exist to live and breath and experience, I exist to learn and to pass that knowledge on to others so they can learn and I exist to grow.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Get a bit of backbone will you, and stop bleating?

Ask your grandparents, and great grandparents. They knew how to treat criminals who wanted to steal their rights. Do what they did.

Otherwise, start a new thread, that's what I'd recommend. For people who are apathetic. I've done it for you "Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Apathy Thread".

Now can we get back on topic?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well to get back on topic I have a bit of an update re: the legal threats.

It seems Phorm are happy with my retraction and apology although they reserve the right to revisit the threat at any time.

Emma Sanderson on the other hand, doesn't seem to understand what no means. She asked me to remove the section of my article questioning whether BT misled ICO and has stated it is defamatory; I will not remove this section as it is personal opinion based on evidence and it is my right to have that opinion under law.

So I have told her that if they are going to sue me for defamation I expect to hear from their lawyers by 2pm on Monday otherwise I will be forced to conclude they are menacing me with a plan to gag me and force my withdrawal from the debate.

I will update you all on Monday once I have more news.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think you get me wrong. I simply think that your children would be better protected by taking a stand over VPN - many of us must use it already, and at this point, shouldn't we all switch to https and then see exactly WHO is going to challenge us over that? And why? Phorm is only ONE enemy. Larger picture, guys!

---------- Post added at 07:45 ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 ----------

Alex - They'll never sue you in a million years!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alexander - on your page you say "until about a week ago, BT’s Webwise web site was run by Phorm".

Its still on 3rd party hosting, and the netblock owner is still "Phorm IPv4 Assignment". The Webwise Help Desk have said "Phorm currently operates the Webwise information site (www.bt.com/webwise) on BT's behalf".

So it is *still* run by Phorm, sadly.

PS. www.bt.com/webwise redirects you to -> http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.php (Phorm operated)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

VPN and https are too exclusive and by that I mean they exclude far too many people. Processing everything over https is going to mean costs for non profits are going to rise and as a result communities like cableforum will struggle to emerge. There is a magnitude of difference in processing requirements for a busy web server between http and https and many non profit sites would simply never survive without resorting to advertising which many people do not want to do.

VPN is impractical because it excludes all but the technically tuned in, meaning the majority of people will be excluded.

But more importantly, we should not have to resort to subterfuge in order to obtain liberty and privacy, these are afforded to us as inalienable rights. In fact by evading these systems and going underground, we are in essence giving up our rights instead of enforcing them, which just means more and more rights get eroded until we have none left.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 07:54 ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 ----------

Add a comment if you like, I was more interested in getting the point about the contact page which was processing significantly personal data, across. It is my understanding that the contact page is no longer controlled by Phorm?

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

When your postman is opening your mail, I wouldn't think that 'subterfuge' would be exactly the word for getting another postman.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wilco. You know BT are leaking email addresses and security credentials to Phorm simply by viewing pages? (see earlier warning to BT customers).

You don't even have to submit a contact Phorm. Simply looking at the webwise.bt.com pages can give Phorm a BT customer's email address (and other security credentials).

Pete

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No you are correct, subterfuge would be taking action for your mail to evade the postman's prying hands, such as wrapping it in 17 layers of duct tape.

Subterfuge is a perfectly apt word for vpn and https though.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alex - hang on here a minute - I don't actually NEED the duct tape to stop my postman reading it because there is an assumption of privacy implicit in the postal services. Even the most malicious administration conceivable would be hard put to open and read every letter sent. We have conveniently provided the powers that be with everything we do and think in a neat digital format which is much more accessible to them, and doubtless they want this information (for reasons which remain obscure to me):

If I care to encrypt my letters, is that an automatic assumption of some form of guilt Yes/No

These are the battlelines we ought to be gearing up for.

Have a good party (and I'll be there myself) but there are MUCH larger issues at stake.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The BT Webwise contact page data is now handled as part of the normal BT Help and Support operation which is outsourced to custhelp.com - who do all the other help stuff. That change occurred "covertly" just after the exposure of the fact that emails to help were coming back with ww3.phorm.com or 121media.com in a References: header and with FW in the Subject line. We got 'em there and wrecked someone's bank holidyay. As there was also a fire in Houston that day, it wasn't a good weekend for BT Webwise. I eventually got an email and there was a Beta post explaining the change over but claiming there had never been anything wrong with Phorm doing it anyway - but now they were changing the system and using custhelp.com

But:-

They (custhelp.com) are very very persistent on demanding extra personally identifiable information - I'm trying to get a question on webwise answered at the moment via their contact.php page and custhelp.com keep coming back and asking for the non-mandatory information that I didn't put on the contact form, my BT customer account number, and phone number "so they can handle my enquiry". I keep saying no, and they keep saying they need it. I'm letting the correspondence run on, as I like getting that sort of stuff. It looks good in letters of complaint to the ICO.

Currently, in order to answer the question I asked recently:-
> The site www.webwise.bt.com seems to have disappeared off the
> internet. Has something broken?
> Was there a brownout in Houston?
> Is FASTHOSTS or GoDaddy or thePlantet.com broken?
> So many strange things happening with BT Webwise at the moment.

they are saying for the second time

"I am sorry for any problems this has caused you.
In addition to your question of why we need your account number and telephone number it is so that we can access your account to solve your query, and for security.
I am sorry for the way you feel however in order to solve this matter quickly I would need the information required.
Once again I am sorry for any confusion caused.
If you should have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me again via e-mail.
Thank you for contacting BT.
Yours sincerely,
********** *********
eContact Customer Service"

even though in response to their first request for that data I replied:

"Thank you for your reply.
I'd rather not disclose this personally identifiable information that you
ask for. I cannot see why my phone bill account number should be necessary
to answer the questions in my original submission form.
I asked these questions - you can answer them without my account number or telephone number. None of the questions relates directly to my individual
account details and the information requested below was not marked with an
asterisk on the enquiry/contact web page, and I choose not to supply it now.
Thank you."

Still sending out boiler plate rubbish. In my experience of BT help and support by email it can take about three or four more cycles of this before a human being intervenes so I'll keep going although my holiday may intervene!

In my next reply I'm going to demand the reason why they need this information and threaten them with yet another report to the ICO if they refuse.

---------- Post added at 08:29 ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 ----------

I agree. One thing that all of us should do at present, is to use writetothem.com to send our MP and our MEPs follow up letters about the leaked document. Feel free to use my post over on BT Beta
http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...t=754&tstart=0
as a catalogue of complaints. The MP's got sold a pup in the briefing document they were given by BT, and so they think there is nothing wrong. Their "trust" in BT needs shaking and that leaked document shakes it severely and just might get them moving.

Likewise the ICO

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The ISPA used the postman analogy a few months ago to say that they couldn't be expected to monitor content to detect filesharers because that would be like opening letters and it was illegal - and anyway they couldn't do it (DPI).

Now they have major members doing exactly that, who say it IS legal.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

NoDPI.Org is currently down, not sure why I am looking into the problem.

Alexander Hanff