Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Here is the relevant section from Macclesfield Borough Council’s Policy on Use of Covert Surveillance: https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/07/23.pngThe end of the document gives the names of those two Authorising Officers. My biggest worry is that, while ISPs store only which websites are accessed, not which pages, Phorm get a stream of full URLs. All parties have to trust that Phorm won’t use those URLs to obtain full page contents at a later time, by making their own requests for the pages. The stream of full URLs can be considered to be a highly compressed for of the full traffic; you can use those snippets of information to reconstruct nearly all of the original. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Here is an interesting thread over on Badphorm.co.uk titled "ALL MEMBERS READ *** IMPORTANT ***"
I think it's interesting from the point of view that BT/Phorm have created a situation where the very nature of trust on the Internet is being called into question. When you can't trust your own ISP service provider who can you trust? This thread isn't about BT/Phorm directly (or is it?) it is about one of the moderators warning people about an SQL Injection from a website based in Texas, USA and a suspicious NMAP scan... And as you can see from the details badphorm.co.uk webserver is based in Texas, USA. As we uncover more dirt on the BT/Phorm saga and the word gets out to a wider audience (the masses). More and more people are naturally going to become paranoid, upset, uncertain and suspicious of every little thing that happens on the Internet... And who's fault is that? Well basically my money is one guy in particular a sneaky shyster @sshole called Stratis Scleparis, this toe tag is responsible for what has been happening at BT and Phorm, he is Phorm's CTO and was formally BT Retails CTO. The guy that made this Phorm sh*t spying happen. Emma Sanderson's involvement may have been as co-conspirator back when sneak Scleparis was in charge of the BT spying but she is definately upto her neck in the sh*t now. IANAL but I think BT will have a case to answer for with regards to psychological damage done to their customers. I just want people to bear this in mind as they may have a case for suing BT at some point in the future. http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?5712.0 |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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BT have said, categorically, that as far as the Webwise trial goes, they will not inject javascript - so it will be interesting to see if this "Webwise is ON/OFF" message relies on javascript injection or is just "one of the ads" that they deliver to the page. But a lot of sewage has flowed under the bridge since that article. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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I understood that a RIPA request didn't require a court sanctioned warrant, assuming that is what you are referring too, but still its no matter really. The fact though that an ISP must now record all sites visited based on IP address is a little concerning, especially when we consider how many times Phorm have denied that they can access this information based on IP address. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
BT have said, categorically, that as far as the Webwise trial goes, they will not inject javascript - so it will be interesting to see if this "Webwise is ON/OFF" message relies on javascript injection or is just "one of the ads" that they deliver to the page.
But a lot of sewage has flowed under the bridge since that article.[/QUOTE] The mere delivery of an AD on a page from another Server stating Webwise ON or OFF would still be proof of constant redirection/profiling, if/when Webwise was supposed to not be profiling! This in effect would be "Page Injection" by the Phorm System for which I would account BT responsible! |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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In a hypothetical scenario: I am in a similar position with Phorm/Webwise intercepting my data by deep packet inspection. I don't trust them and I am aware of the latent power available in this invasive technology. I have strange IP symptoms on the PC I am investigating and I am trying to logically prove where and why the problem occurred and how to fix it? How can I ever hand on heart rule out malpractice on their part if I don't trust Phorm. I have little or no respect for Phorm and I am aware of their rootkit, PeopleOnPage, ContextPlus adware history as 121Media! It would be impossible for me to do true logical analysis because if Phorm/Webwise was in place, knowing their in-line position, intercepting my data stream and knowing they theoretically have the ability do anything they so desired, I could never rule them out as the source of the problem because hand on heart, I will never trust them! This really has to be stopped! ISP's must realise this 'lack of trust' knock on effect is very important as well as the general privacy and legal issues we all shout about. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...ion_directive/ "Law enforcement agencies can gain access to such data with a court-ordered warrant. Though providers almost uniformly keep the information for such periods to resolve any future billing disputes, the laws will ensure that they do so." "The reality is that nothing much has changed. The new legislation will make little practical difference as most telecoms providers keep certain information for billing purposes and customer records," said Michael Eagle of the Federation of Communications Services. "That information would be enough to meet the requirements of law enforcement agencies. There is no need to keep more data that you are ever likely to be asked for." |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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As you say, if Webwise is off, how do they control ANYTHING I see - especially as the BT Webwise "diagrams" (ha ha) show non-opted-in customers going nowhere near the Phorm equipment. At the present state of play my gut feeling is that whatever system BT trial (due in the next 10 days -if they trial anything) it won't be a bit like what Kent Ertugrul former rootkit merchant has been talking about. But there again - that relies on BT Retail being a) sensible b) competent c) having integrity d) wanting to obey the law e) having any regard at all for their customers So maybe I'm being over-optimistic. However - I do think there are some people in BT Retail currently buying in extra anti-perspirant and toilet paper which is a comforting thought. Incidentally - I'm starting to distinguish in my posts and letters and emails betwen BT, BT Retail and BT Wholesale - it worries them when you do that. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Non Phorm customers may wonder what it all about but will get the message that your ISP is not using Phorm if they click on it. (I think I have understood what I have been trying to say....) |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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This act goes one better, the police can now also ask what sites were visited based on an IP address, or possibly based on known account information. ISP's will be required to "keep logs of internet usage" for a period of 12 months. What is of concern is this quote in The Register article. Quote:
The article says Quote:
But lets cut to the chase, this act, proposed by the government as part of an EU directive that they now need to ratify means this. Our Internet usage from a certain date on will be recorded and retained for a period of 12 months by our ISP. What isn't clear is which public authorities will be able to access such data. As Alexander has said, this is nothing new, however, this is the first time to my knowledge that this requirement will be enshrined in Law, and the first time for sure our browsing data will be recorded, and can be used as part of a criminal or national security investigation. Obviously my point is off-topic as it doesn't directly relate to Phorm, but this is about privacy. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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A typical scenario where the police would want to access the data: The police take down a website used by paedophiles / terrorist suspects - all the site's visitors will have left their IP's and the time and date they visited on the site's hit log. The police sort the IP's into their respective ISP IP ranges. Using this collected evidence as justification a court will grant them a warrant to access ISP data. They then match the IP/date/time from the website with the corresponding data retained by the ISP to identify their suspect. I don't know about the council's use of RIPA but in this case the police are required to provide the court with evidence in order to justify the granting of a warrant. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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This has happened on several occasions were the police prosecution case has relied on evidence collected from mobile phone wire taps carried out without a warrant and so deemed illegal. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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E.g. Under the new law, the police can go to the courts to request a warrant (or enforce RIPA if this new legislation allows it) to enter a premises and extract computer equipment where they have reason to suspect that the owner may potentially be a paedophile based on what URL's have been recorded against his Internet account in the last year. Now, having recorded URL's may not be evidence, but extracting that evidence under new legislation will be easy, and will provide the needed evidence for a warrant to be issued so that the claim can be investigated further, such as through forensic examination of any computer equipment in that property. My point is this, up until now, the police could request from an ISP who owned an IP address at a particular time in the past, or currently and they wouldn't need a court order. The new legislation coming into force would require our ISP to record basic internet activity, such as sites visited for a rolling 12 month period, and the police could request that information also, without the need for an interception request, also available under RIPA, and does not need a judge to sign it off. Whether this new legislation can be administered through RIPA as it stands is yet to be seen. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
side tracked here i think, i cannot see the police selling the data for profit and sending adverts.
unless you really got something to hide. |
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