Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48735097

I have to say I'm rather concerned about this especially as Trump keeps changing direction.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Maybe it's better to kill a few computers than kill people at the moment,i think a confrontation is coming but it might not be the USA that carries out any attacks.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

I think Donny deserves some credit on this occasion, so what if the planes were or weren't in the air when he changed his mind, people are still alive now and that's the main thing imo

There is unforseen circumstances for weakening Iran to much, like the Saudis or Turks dominating the region, we just have to hope America is looking at all scenarios this time and learnt from Iraq
__________________

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

When damn near everything in the world is controlled by computers . . including weapons/targeting systems/failsafes . . it may not be such a good idea to mess with them :D

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Looks like Trump's strategy to dishonour the 2015 agreement is not having the outcome he anticipated.
https://news.sky.com/story/a-11747158

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

It doesn’t sit quite right with me. I mean yes, obviously it’s better that 150 people just going about their day jobs haven’t been blown to hell, but as for Trump’s motivation? I keep thinking about the scene in Schindler’s List where the concentration camp commandant who is partial to randomly shooting inmates from his office window, just because he can, decides not to shoot one after being persuaded that the true measure of power is compassion and restraint. In that case, it was an appeal to his vanity that caused him to stay his hand, but his true nature reasserted itself soon enough and the next prisoner he spotted, got shot dead, just because he could.

I think Trump is known for acts of narcissism, not for acts of compassion.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

I didn't actually think much about his motivation tbh, you might be right, might also have sonething to do with getting embroiled in another middle eastern misadventure after being so critical of his predecessors for doing just that

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

I thought it was an obvious tactic for Trump. If he did nothing after giving warnings he'll look weak. If he acted out his threats then it would escalate and won't be good for anyone. So by saying what he did it covers all bases and he comes out of it still intact whilst still forcing another threat in the process. I don't think he had any intention of firing, but a means of getting out of a tricky situation.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Well now I'm reminded of that fable of the boy who cried wolf..

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

It has also been mooted that it was a way to root out leakers as well.

That I can believe over narcissism.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

But if he keeps employing these tactics then he is in danger of being regarded as a paper tiger.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

I read that he may have doubled back when reminded that his core voter base expected him to withdraw from foreign conflicts, not start them and so his 2020 chances may be impacted.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

I said mooted. How true it is no-one knows so why make a mountain out of a molehill. I thought you were educated enough to know what mooted means.
That said I still don't know what the difference between working for a living and staying in acedemia is or why Univesity degree is so necessary.

But that's for another thread.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

You seem to come across a bit rude here, I am sure this was unintentional

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Oh I know what mooted means. Do you know what a paper tiger is?

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

BREAKING: reports from the US suggest Iran have unsuccessfully attempted to seize a British oil tanker

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48946051

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

There is trouble ahead me thinks.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Well the Iranians aren't saints but a certain President has been stirring it..... And we are but his humble servants now.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Link
1) It is the EU orders we're having to follow.
2) It was Obama.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Bit rich of President T to complain about them enriching Uranium beyond a limit in an agreement he's pulled out of ! He's playing games but the Iranians are outsmarting him (not hard).

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

I'm not so sure they are outsmarting him, I could be wrong but to my untrained eye it looks like a trap the Iranians are blundering straight into, the very odd thing is donny can't undersrand why they haven't phoned him!!!!

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

One thing that has made me take more of an interest in Jeremy Hunt lately has been his acknowledgement that the Royal Navy is too small. For a maritime nation with a major interest in global trade it’s insane that our Navy has become as small as it has. It’s all very well that one Type 45 destroyer has the same air defence capability as six of the T42s sent to the Falklands conflict; one T45 still can’t be in six places at once. The navy in the 1980s may primarily have been an anti-submarine force but it still had the numbers to divert to the Falklands or other hotspots (such as, for example, the Armilla Patrol that safeguarded shipping in the Persian Gulf during the Iran-Iraq war).

The Gulf is hotting up again and if Iran decides to provoke a confrontation it is more than able to overcome a single Duke-class frigate. So far all it has done is to test our resolve and found us at least marginally better prepared than when we allowed an entire survey team to get kidnapped and paraded on TV in Tehran wearing cheap nylon suits.

The Navy needs a fast, adequately armed, medium sized ship design that it can build in numbers and deploy globally, sooner rather than later. The best-in-class vessels can take on carrier group duties and let the rest protect our interests patrolling the world’s sea lanes.

Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 

The frigate / Type 45 news seems to be being over-dramatised by the media.

It was a pre-planned handover, and there will be two ships there for only a brief period.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48958359

Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 

Kinda my point ... Duncan is seriously overqualified for sea lane patrol. She’s an air defence destroyer capable of taking down the entire Iranian Air Force (were she fully armed, which admittedly she won’t be on this deployment). The Iranians have been experimenting with swarm tactics. That calls for multiple fast ships in multiple strategic locations, not one destroyer designed to shoot down jets 50 miles away.

Re: UK ambassador to the USA resigns over leaked cables
 

U.K. in Talks With U.S. to Boost Protection for Gulf Shipping.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...alflow-organic

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

HMS Montrose will be coming home for a refit and HMS Duncan will take over duties. Never fear look what else is in the Arabian sea.


https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-t...abian-sea-navy

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Iran are all mouth and no trousers.

Although I agree, we need to beef up the Navy.

The problem is , much like issues the NHS have with technology and new drugs, is that the products required are just so dam expensive.

Technology is great, but it’s expensive

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

That's a relief, I though for a minute they had sent both of our ships!

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

?

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

:D

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Meaning after all the cuts to our Armed Forces, we only have 2 ships, 3 tanks and a plane* left ...


* apparently this is not allowed to fly very fast as the paint will peel off

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Apparently we now use 'stealth paint' . . . it's that good you can't even see it has been applied :D

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

but ..

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/928227...rack-pentagon/

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

It's so good you can't even see the planes, there's row upon row of them, hundreds of them and in a real coup for the intelligence services we managed to convince the world we were daft enough to build aircraft carriers and not have any planes to pur on them when they were stuffed with stealth planes

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Brilliant! Love it .. carriers with decks of invisible planes! I suppose to make it look more genuine, they have the crew on deck pretending to clean them :)

Damn! :notopic: Post .. going .. going .. gon

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Thanks

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

British-flagged tanker diverted to Iran

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49053383

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Reports now say two British navy vessels (Tankers) have been seized by Iran, in the Strait of Homuz. Emergency Cobra meeting currently in process. U.S President Donald Trump has said in the last half hour that he is talking with the UK and work with us on this developing news story.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

No, it isn’t - it’s time to ascertain what’s happening, and try not to escalate things.

"To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war"

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

We know exactly what is happening. What's Trump tweeting now?

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

No, we don’t - we know what’s being reported (often conflicting reports).

As we have found in the past, what is reported and what is happening often are different things.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

That assumes that you're dealing with people that are even remotely sane.

Re: Iran-US crisis
 

We have to - he’s an ally... ;)

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Navy Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Now it's not the US involved..How did Trump manage that?

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Navy Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Not directly, Maggie, but this is all to do with US sanctions on Iran.

The consequences of this may be beyond Trump's capacity to fathom.

Unless his public persona is all an act.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Navy Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Nothing to do with the US.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Send in the SBS.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Not sure what the Shaky Boat Service can do, unless the mission is to sink it in port... :D

Once the ship is in Iranian waters there can only be a diplomatic solution. The military questions are, how did this happen, and how do we stop it happening again?

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

This might also increase the urgency of the point you raised the other day Chris, i.e we need a bigger boat(s)

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

However many ships we have, they can never be everywhere. It takes time to reach a particular location. Eg Over a week from Gibraltar to Strait of Hormuz via Suez Canal.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Iran knows it can never win a game of battleships in the Gulf. It has been working instead on swarm tactics that can overwhelm a large naval vessel’s defences. You see a small example of it in these reports of the Stena bulk carrier being escorted by no fewer than 10 speedboats into Iranian waters. Those same tactics, which mandate the owning of a large number of small, fast craft, enables Iran to go after just about any cargo vessel it chooses, in the absence of a close-by naval vessel, wherever in the Gulf it happens to be.

If we were going to effectively police the Strait of Hormuz we would need numbers, not size. HMS Duncan is a formidable air defence destroyer but she’s designed to protect an area of operations from incoming fast jets by shooting them down at long range. That ability is no use here. HMS Montrose saw off a similar Iranian gambit the other week by being in close proximity and pointing her deck gun at the Iranians. Clearly Iran doesn’t want a shooting war it can’t win, so it backed off. Duncan would be able to do the same if it was in the right place at the right time, but it’s just one ship and clearly no naval vessel was in the right place at the right time to intervene here.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Random thoughts:

Are there only British (UK) ships in that area, or are EU ones also present?

Is the British tanker seized crewed by a solely British crew, or a crew of mixed nationalities?

As the Iranian tanker that initiated this situation was 'stopped' due to suspected breaking of an EU embargo, have there been any comments/actions on these developments by the EU themselves?

How long before we start seeing Iranian TV using videos of the captured crew to escalate the 'feeding frenzy'?

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

The crew aren't British so I suspect their propaganda value is limited

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Just seen . . apparently Indian, Russian, Latvian and Filipino crew.

one question (or possibly two) answered anyway, can't see those Countries kicking up much of a fuss ;)

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Who said otherwise. What was said in case you read it wrong is the crew won't have to put up with being used in a propoganda circus

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

In maritime terms it’s the flag that matters, much more so than the nationality of anyone on board. Britain has an obligation to the ship because it is registered here and flies the Red Ensign.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Again in what way is that relevant to what was posted, exactly it isn't

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

I assumed it was clear to all Carth referencing the capture of British sailors ten plus years ago and their subsiquent parading for propoganda purposes by the Iranian authorities and that this won't happen this time due to none of the crew being British, my mistake wasn't being economical with words, it was overestimating the audience

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...CMP=GTUK_email

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

As Chris posted on the previous page.

We have 13 frigates, and 15-30 large British ships go through the Straits every day.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Points towards using convoys. Then the naval vessels can provide effective cover.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Did someone mention War?

I can hear the arms factories gearing up already, and cries of "just what we need to get the country back into a stable economy" :rolleyes:

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

It's good for buisiness;)

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

And bad for those killed and maimed... :(

456 UK Armed Forces personnel have been killed in Afghanistan (the Forever War, which has been going on for over 18 years), with thousands, if not tens of thousands, permanently injured for the rest of their lives, physically and mentally.

To paraphrase BJ, "frak business!".

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

BREAKING: UPDATE Iran says it has arrested 17 suspects and sentenced a number of them to death, all Iranian, after dismantling a CIA spy ring, as tensions soar between the Islamic republic and arch-enemy the United States. Source AFP News Agency.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Russia has sided with Iran. Obviously.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Bring back the MTB's (2nd world war type) fast motor torpedo boats armed to the gunnels. They would be cheaper to run than Frigates.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inLBea7OiNc

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Have to buy them, outfit them, transport them there, train the crews and the maintenance crews, put the support infrastructure into place - might take a while...

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Send the SAS to take back the Tanker.

After all we know what happened during the Iranian hostage seige back in the 80's

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

It's in a port, probably surrounded by heavy weaponry, and would take ages to power up and then slowly move off. Impossible.

And any attack on it would mean the end of the crew.

---------- Post added at 20:42 ---------- Previous post was at 20:40 ----------

The Iranians knew they were no match for International heavy warships, so concentrated on building thousands of fast boats that would be able to swarm attack any intruders.

I'm sure that many are fitted with H.E. charges so they could be used like kamikaze weapons.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

I see that Hunt is calling for a European alliance. Couldn't make it up! ;)

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Why not? Military alliances have existed between the sovereign nation states in Europe since long before the EU and will continue long after it’s a fading memory.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Threatening a no-deal Brexit then pleading for help as we downsized our navy too much is cake-and-eatism at its finest.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

The military is entirely outside of the purview of the EU. Brexit is not a factor here and it will not become the topic of discussion in this thread.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

The only connection to Brexit in this situation is that the government has allowed their attention to concentrate on that rather than other just as important issues like the Iran situation.So let's not make this a Brexit thread.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

If you have a geeky bone in your body, you can see the traffic through the Straits of Hormuz here - https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais...ry:26.4/zoom:9

Plenty of traffic still! In answer to a question earlier about other EU registered ships going through, I can see Greek and Cypriot tankers going through at the moment

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

1) It was implementing EU sanctions that triggered the latest set of events.
2) It's not just UK ships sailing in the area.
3) The Navy cutbacks started before 2010.
4) Any imaginary extra ships and imaginary extra crew would have been elsewhere and would have taken weeks to reach the Gulf.
5) Other countries in the EU such as France and Italy don't have a lot more ships than the UK. They probably cut back their navies as well.

---------- Post added at 09:24 ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 ----------

Apart from this.
Link

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Navy cutbacks started in the 90's after the cold war and here are the sizes of the British , Italian and French navy's below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...yal_Navy_ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nch_Navy_ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ian_Navy_ships

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Yes but if we worked together Den, we'd be more effective, Goes for a lot of things really, we are a small country about to become smaller. As long as we're wearing a Union Jack underpants everything will be ok, you'll see.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

l don't disagree with that sentiment Mr K.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

I agree 100%, but we don’t have to be in a political union to work together.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Indeed. NATO works rather well without its own body of law, Parliament or anthem. It has done far more to guarantee European peace than the EU ever will.

Bilateral arrangements are flexible and effective and I’m confident something can be put in place to protect shipping in the strait.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

You might want to check this out - NATO Anthem - https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_150419.htm

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

“NATO hymn,” in fact. Close, but no cigar. ;)

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

I'm not sure where 2010 comes into the equation - I said we downsized our navy too much.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

That showed up in the Falklands war... with HMS Victory being scrapped.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

But she's still in dry dock in Portsmouth Dockyard..;)

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

The UK government has said it will provide a Royal Navy escort for British-flagged ships passing through the Strait of Hormuz - amid increasing diplomatic tensions in the Gulf.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49110331

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Nice one Maggy I should have said the air-craft carrier Ark Royal.:o:

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

It’s simplistic to say Ark Royal (Audacious class) was just the victim of cutbacks. It was a WW2 era design that required fairly constant modifications and repairs throughout its service life.

The Invincible class light carriers came into service within 3 years of Ark Royal’s decommissioning, two of them in time for the Falklands war. The government had realised by the mid 1970s that it was a strategic error not to have fixed-wing aircraft launching capability at sea and ordered its new fleet of anti-submarine cruisers, still on the drawing board at the time, to be modified to carry a navalised harrier jump jet. The older HMS Hermes also remained in service at the time of the Falklands war.

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

I think Jon can claim the cigar:

https://www.forces.net/news/nato-off...nthem-alliance

Re: Iran Tension Escalates as Iran Seizes British Vessels In Strait of Homuz
 

Not really, from your link.