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-   -   350M : How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33706560)

ethan103 09-07-2018 13:18
How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
Ok so Ive been running this graph for a few hours now because ive noticed in games my ping varies a lot, the jitter can cuase my internet to go from a steady 10-20ms to 60+ and the graph shows a huge 120ms spike too.

How do you avoid this and is there anything you can do to help stabalise the connection?

I'm hard wired direct from the Hub to my PC/Consoles.


https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broad...aa8c33d80108a5

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/07/20.png

ianch99 09-07-2018 13:52
Re: How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
I think the jitter you refer to unavoidable due to the nature of VM's DOCSIS broadband FTTA (Fibre To The Area) design.

The base latency you have seem higher than most?. It is hard to tell but it is nearly 20ms? Don't forget this is from the TB Firebrick device that is probing your WAN ip address exposed by your SuperHub.

The acid test would be a latency/jitter test to one of your gaming servers, see what this is showing you. Here's 60 pings to Google's DNS server which is a good test as it is always close, in network terms:

Code:
Target Name: google-public-dns-a.google.com
        IP: 8.8.8.8
  Date/Time: 09/07/2018 13:42:34

 1    1 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms  router.asus.com [192.168.0.1]
 2  *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      [-]
 3  11 ms  19 ms  14 ms    9 ms    9 ms  30 ms  12 ms    9 ms  24 ms  11 ms    9 ms  10 ms  20 ms    9 ms    9 ms  10 ms  14 ms  10 ms    9 ms  10 ms    9 ms  11 ms    9 ms  15 ms  10 ms    9 ms  10 ms  11 ms  10 ms    8 ms  12 ms  10 ms  10 ms  10 ms  10 ms    9 ms  15 ms    8 ms    9 ms  18 ms    9 ms  11 ms  13 ms  10 ms  12 ms  11 ms    9 ms  10 ms  10 ms    9 ms    9 ms    9 ms    9 ms  19 ms  11 ms  10 ms    9 ms    9 ms    9 ms  12 ms  sotn-core-2a-xe-023-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.255.45.101]
 4  *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      [-]
 5  *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      [-]
 6  18 ms  17 ms  16 ms  17 ms  25 ms  16 ms  21 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  22 ms  17 ms  18 ms  16 ms  17 ms  32 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  16 ms  18 ms  18 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  16 ms  18 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  16 ms  16 ms  17 ms  16 ms  16 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  16 ms  17 ms  24 ms  17 ms  18 ms  16 ms  16 ms  17 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  eislou2-ic-1-ae3-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.85.145]
 7  19 ms  20 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  22 ms  20 ms  20 ms  23 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  19 ms  21 ms  20 ms  21 ms  20 ms  19 ms  20 ms  22 ms  21 ms  22 ms  20 ms  21 ms  20 ms  20 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  24 ms  20 ms  21 ms  19 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  21 ms  21 ms  21 ms  19 ms  32 ms  20 ms  21 ms  21 ms  22 ms  20 ms  21 ms  24 ms  20 ms  23 ms  20 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  21 ms  20 ms  6-14-250-212.static.virginm.net [212.250.14.6]
 8  *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      [-]
 9  23 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  24 ms  21 ms  22 ms  22 ms  21 ms  25 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  21 ms  22 ms  23 ms  22 ms  23 ms  22 ms  25 ms  22 ms  23 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  32 ms  26 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  21 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  21 ms  23 ms  24 ms  22 ms  21 ms  22 ms  23 ms  23 ms  24 ms  26 ms  21 ms  22 ms  21 ms  25 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  [216.239.56.194]
10  19 ms  20 ms  18 ms  20 ms  23 ms  20 ms  19 ms  21 ms  19 ms  36 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  19 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  19 ms  23 ms  23 ms  19 ms  18 ms  23 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  19 ms  19 ms  26 ms  20 ms  31 ms  23 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  18 ms  23 ms  19 ms  20 ms  28 ms  22 ms  21 ms  20 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  19 ms  29 ms  19 ms  19 ms  19 ms  19 ms  19 ms  21 ms  22 ms  [108.170.230.165]
11  23 ms  17 ms  19 ms  18 ms  17 ms  17 ms  20 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  18 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  18 ms  18 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  18 ms  17 ms  21 ms  18 ms  18 ms  17 ms  21 ms  17 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  28 ms  17 ms  18 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  19 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
For comparison, here's my TBB graph:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/08/6.png

ethan103 09-07-2018 14:10
Re: How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35953720)
I think the jitter you refer to unavoidable due to the nature of VM's DOCSIS broadband FTTA (Fibre To The Area) design.

The base latency you have seem higher than most?. It is hard to tell but it is nearly 20ms? Don't forget this is from the TB Firebrick device that is probing your WAN ip address exposed by your SuperHub.

The acid test would be a latency/jitter test to one of your gaming servers, see what this is showing you. Here's 60 pings to Google's DNS server which is a good test as it is always close, in network terms:

Code:
Target Name: google-public-dns-a.google.com
        IP: 8.8.8.8
  Date/Time: 09/07/2018 13:42:34

 1    1 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    0 ms    1 ms  router.asus.com [192.168.0.1]
 2  *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      [-]
 3  11 ms  19 ms  14 ms    9 ms    9 ms  30 ms  12 ms    9 ms  24 ms  11 ms    9 ms  10 ms  20 ms    9 ms    9 ms  10 ms  14 ms  10 ms    9 ms  10 ms    9 ms  11 ms    9 ms  15 ms  10 ms    9 ms  10 ms  11 ms  10 ms    8 ms  12 ms  10 ms  10 ms  10 ms  10 ms    9 ms  15 ms    8 ms    9 ms  18 ms    9 ms  11 ms  13 ms  10 ms  12 ms  11 ms    9 ms  10 ms  10 ms    9 ms    9 ms    9 ms    9 ms  19 ms  11 ms  10 ms    9 ms    9 ms    9 ms  12 ms  sotn-core-2a-xe-023-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.255.45.101]
 4  *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      [-]
 5  *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      [-]
 6  18 ms  17 ms  16 ms  17 ms  25 ms  16 ms  21 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  22 ms  17 ms  18 ms  16 ms  17 ms  32 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  16 ms  18 ms  18 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  16 ms  18 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  16 ms  16 ms  17 ms  16 ms  16 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  16 ms  17 ms  24 ms  17 ms  18 ms  16 ms  16 ms  17 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  16 ms  eislou2-ic-1-ae3-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.85.145]
 7  19 ms  20 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  22 ms  20 ms  20 ms  23 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  19 ms  21 ms  20 ms  21 ms  20 ms  19 ms  20 ms  22 ms  21 ms  22 ms  20 ms  21 ms  20 ms  20 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  24 ms  20 ms  21 ms  19 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  21 ms  21 ms  21 ms  19 ms  32 ms  20 ms  21 ms  21 ms  22 ms  20 ms  21 ms  24 ms  20 ms  23 ms  20 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  21 ms  20 ms  6-14-250-212.static.virginm.net [212.250.14.6]
 8  *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      [-]
 9  23 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  24 ms  21 ms  22 ms  22 ms  21 ms  25 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  21 ms  22 ms  23 ms  22 ms  23 ms  22 ms  25 ms  22 ms  23 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  32 ms  26 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  21 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  21 ms  23 ms  24 ms  22 ms  21 ms  22 ms  23 ms  23 ms  24 ms  26 ms  21 ms  22 ms  21 ms  25 ms  22 ms  22 ms  22 ms  [216.239.56.194]
10  19 ms  20 ms  18 ms  20 ms  23 ms  20 ms  19 ms  21 ms  19 ms  36 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  19 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  19 ms  23 ms  23 ms  19 ms  18 ms  23 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  19 ms  19 ms  26 ms  20 ms  31 ms  23 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  20 ms  18 ms  23 ms  19 ms  20 ms  28 ms  22 ms  21 ms  20 ms  19 ms  19 ms  20 ms  20 ms  19 ms  29 ms  19 ms  19 ms  19 ms  19 ms  19 ms  21 ms  22 ms  [108.170.230.165]
11  23 ms  17 ms  19 ms  18 ms  17 ms  17 ms  20 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  18 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  18 ms  18 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  18 ms  17 ms  21 ms  18 ms  18 ms  17 ms  21 ms  17 ms  16 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  28 ms  17 ms  18 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  19 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  17 ms  google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8]
For comparison, here's my TBB graph:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/08/6.png

Yes the base is showing as 20ms.

Even when I ping bbc.co.uk via cmd on my PC,

I get

18ms
19ms
28ms
26ms
16ms

Or could be any combination however it nearly always starts off low before going up 50-100%

What amount of jitter is acceptable?

Could it be the severs?

When I use Speedtest it says my jitter is 1.1ms but within games and pinging via cmd - I never get a consistent result ...

How do I do the google dns ping check?

And could power levels affect ping?

ianch99 09-07-2018 15:37
Re: How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan103 (Post 35953724)
Yes the base is showing as 20ms.

Even when I ping bbc.co.uk via cmd on my PC,

I get

18ms
19ms
28ms
26ms
16ms

Or could be any combination however it nearly always starts off low before going up 50-100%

What amount of jitter is acceptable?

Could it be the severs?

When I use Speedtest it says my jitter is 1.1ms but within games and pinging via cmd - I never get a consistent result ...

How do I do the google dns ping check?

And could power levels affect ping?

Apologies, I posted the wrong graph link. here is my current one:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/08/6.png

As for what is a good ping/jitter, I guess there is no absolute answer except low enough so that you are not impacted when using your line for whatever purpose you choose.

For gaming, I think jitter (consistency of latency) more important than the (base) latency itself. This is why some people prefer ADSL or BT Fibre (FTTC) for gaming as jitter is better on these broadband systems as a rule. There will always be exception but I think this is correct.

Here's a traceroute to Googles's DNS server:

Code:
C:\Users\Ian>tracert -d 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to 8.8.8.8 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  3    11 ms    10 ms    13 ms  62.255.45.101
  4    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  5    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  6    19 ms    19 ms    17 ms  62.254.85.145
  7    20 ms    20 ms    20 ms  212.250.14.6
  8    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  9    24 ms    23 ms    22 ms  216.239.56.194
 10    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  108.170.230.165
 11    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  8.8.8.8

Trace complete.
As you can see, the 3 samples are all 19ms which is fine.

You may be looking at this too closely, try your games and see if they are "laggy". If you have no issues, then the line is "good enough" so no worries!

ethan103 09-07-2018 15:47
Re: How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35953747)
Apologies, I posted the wrong graph link. here is my current one:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/08/6.png

As for what is a good ping/jitter, I guess there is no absolute answer except low enough so that you are not impacted when using your line for whatever purpose you choose.

For gaming, I think jitter (consistency of latency) more important than the (base) latency itself. This is why some people prefer ADSL or BT Fibre (FTTC) for gaming as jitter is better on these broadband systems as a rule. There will always be exception but I think this is correct.

Here's a traceroute to Googles's DNS server:

Code:
C:\Users\Ian>tracert -d 8.8.8.8

Tracing route to 8.8.8.8 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  3    11 ms    10 ms    13 ms  62.255.45.101
  4    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  5    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  6    19 ms    19 ms    17 ms  62.254.85.145
  7    20 ms    20 ms    20 ms  212.250.14.6
  8    *        *        *    Request timed out.
  9    24 ms    23 ms    22 ms  216.239.56.194
 10    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  108.170.230.165
 11    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  8.8.8.8

Trace complete.
As you can see, the 3 samples are all 19ms which is fine.

You may be looking at this too closely, try your games and see if they are "laggy". If you have no issues, then the line is "good enough" so no worries!

So BT would provide less jitter?

How about ping - could it be lower of more or less the same as VM?

Heres my tracert to the one you did:


https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/07/21.png


You see theres one that jumps to 27ms - the 8th one on the 3rd...

Anything to be concerned about?

ianch99 09-07-2018 17:48
Re: How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ethan103 (Post 35953750)
So BT would provide less jitter?

How about ping - could it be lower of more or less the same as VM?

Heres my tracert to the one you did:


https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/07/22.png


You see theres one that jumps to 27ms - the 8th one on the 3rd...

Anything to be concerned about?
As I said, use the line for your gaming and see if you have an issue. You may be worrying too much ..

ethan103 09-07-2018 17:55
Re: How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35953779)
As I said, use the line for your gaming and see if you have an issue. You may be worrying too much ..

I notice it in gaming too.

I get really responsive gameplay and then randomly it can go sluggish and have delays for around 1-5 seconds.

I normally bring up the leaderboard and can see my ping had jumped up or spiked high.

Happens across a few games I play on Xbox and PC.

Jon22 10-07-2018 12:51
Re: How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
As a comparison, this is my connection with AAISP which is over FTTC/VDSL2.

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/07/24.png

The yellow blocks/spikes are down to Netflix usage or just general usage of the connection.

Tracing route to 8.8.8.8 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 81.187.81.187
3 12 ms 13 ms 13 ms 90.155.53.104
4 13 ms 14 ms 13 ms 5.57.80.136
5 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 108.170.246.161
6 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 108.170.230.161
7 13 ms 13 ms 13 ms 8.8.8.8

I'd say your graph, from the bit that can be seen, is fairly decent for a VM connection. Would be useful to see a full 24 hours though, just to see what it's like at peak times.

JordanTheToaster 10-07-2018 19:14
Re: How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
It's entirely the hub 3 and nothing more.

ethan103 10-07-2018 22:18
Re: How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanTheToaster (Post 35953928)
It's entirely the hub 3 and nothing more.

Ever since the update on Friday my hub has been messed up.

A software update got pushed to it and now I get a huge lag spike in the connection, like 20ms to 400+ followed by a disconnection.

When the Hub reconnects, it only connects to 1 Upstream channel.

Then it will continually disconnect until I hard reset via mains.

Then it will connect back to 4 up.

It will work flawlessly for a few hours before spiking and repeating the process.

tweetiepooh 11-07-2018 11:35
Re: How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
Sound like a bigger issue if the Hub is dropping connection. Report it.

I use SamKnows white box and my Upstream jitter peaked at around 2.25ms until 7 July now peak is 1.6 but averages <1ms. Downstream jitter again improved around 7 July from peak at .42 to .34ms.

Packet loss again improved around 7 July now only have one little reading on one day.

Latency 17.5ms to 12.5ms from 7 July.

7 July is rough date/time, could have been late 6 July. But change is noticed in the wee hours when I wouldn't have been making changes.

ethan103 11-07-2018 16:02
Re: How does my Monitor Look? - What causes ping spikes?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 35954015)
Sound like a bigger issue if the Hub is dropping connection. Report it.

I use SamKnows white box and my Upstream jitter peaked at around 2.25ms until 7 July now peak is 1.6 but averages <1ms. Downstream jitter again improved around 7 July from peak at .42 to .34ms.

Packet loss again improved around 7 July now only have one little reading on one day.

Latency 17.5ms to 12.5ms from 7 July.

7 July is rough date/time, could have been late 6 July. But change is noticed in the wee hours when I wouldn't have been making changes.

I have reported it 4 times.

It’s an endless cycle.

It’s not getting resolved with tech visits or tech agents...

The software update has done something to cause a issue / bug.

Now how do you contact them? - you can’t really, I believe it’s an issue on the backend somewhere.

I’ve ordered EE Fiber Plus too - will see how that looks when installed.


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