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-   -   Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

MovedGoalPosts 19-02-2008 13:25

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Yes websites do rely on advertising. Before Google Adsense, this site was totally reliant on donations and the goodwill of the team at that time to pay for the server costs. es people find ads annoying and a balance needs to be struck so they are visible but not obtrusive. Those who opt out by use of ad blockers fair enough, but it's like the dimminishing returns TV advertisers are seeinng. One day the quality of your user experience will drop if the income doesn't pay the outgoings.

Adsense and similar systems can at most only know what the website owner knows about their visitor, i.e. which pages / web content on that site the visitor has seen. Ads are at most targeted to the webspace being viewed, rather than the user.

This proposed phorn method of serving ads is so much more invasive of the user's privacy than previous methods. It is clearly big brother technology. That somehow my webbrowsing habits are being tracked "annonymously" but they aren't annonymous since somehow my identity is allocated a random numer (a database allocation must control that which somehow must identify me so it isn't anonymous), makes it vulnerable. In turn, somehow the website's thaht serve up this system of ads, will be able to link me to the random number. Wouldn't take that much before the phisher type scammers work out how to use this random number against me.

I wonder what OFCOM and the Data Protection Commissioner have to say about all this?

Mick 19-02-2008 14:13

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Update:

Just got off the phone from the Virgin Media press office.

Basically VM haven't implemented anything yet so this is no where near launch. BT are apparently a step further and trialling it with 10,000 customers.

I raised the issue that customers should be given the choice to opt in, not the other way round. VM are looking at this process and are said to be finalising arrangements regarding this, nothing has been agreed yet.

At the moment - the option to opt out, the process involves a visit to a website, webwise and to tick a check box as to whether you want the service or not. This then stores a *cookie* on your computer.

I have asked we be sent some clear clarification on the whole process as there appears to be some ambiguity regarding how this all works.

I'll update this thread as and when I get more information.

hokkers999 19-02-2008 14:19

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dav (Post 34491831)
I assume that both VM and Phorm will make money on the ads we click on that have been pushed on us by Phorm?

If this is the case, do what I do and don't give them an incentive to push these things on us. Make it uneconomical for them to continue this 'service' by not clicking on any pop-up or embedded ads. As soon as the click-throughs and hence the revenue streams dry up they'll have to reconsider.

I'll opt out, but I also have a personal policy of NEVER clicking on-screen ads. If I want something, I'll find it myself.

I'm still heavily against my browsing habits being tracked by a 3rd party and will be contacting VM as soon as more details become available.

Or do the exact opposite and click on EVERY ad on the screen! Why? The advertiser pays for that click, when they have to pay for millions of clicks and never get any income eventually they'll get the message...

lardboy 19-02-2008 14:30

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34491957)
Update:

At the moment - the option to opt out, the process involves a visit to a website, webwise and to tick a check box as to whether you want the service or not. This then stores a *cookie* on your computer.

Do you think they mean a cookie the same as the cookies I clear off my system every time I've finished browsing? So this will be a per session option, everytime I start browsing I have to "opt out". That doesn't seem right I'd assumed it would be an ISP side setting.

Would using a proxy stop this tracking? Surely all their records would show would be the address of the proxy.

checker 19-02-2008 14:32

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I have enough junk through my letter box, which I return in the envelope provided, minus my address of course. I don't require any more via my PC thank you. I have not and never will buy anything from unsolicited advertising. If I require a service I will look for it. Guess if I voted yes or no.:mad:

MovedGoalPosts 19-02-2008 14:58

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I can see why they want it to be an opt out process. Who is going to opt in? and if they don't opt in then the system won't be of benefit to advertisers? If it's opt out, many will simply not do so, through apathy, or even ignorance that the system exists.

Opt out should place nothing on my computer(s). Would I have to do that for every computer I use, and as stated above, if I clear my cookies or whatever, would I have to go through the rigmarole again? Too many, questions, not enough clarity or answers yet.

Sirius 19-02-2008 15:07

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
I have just got off the phone to CS and asked them to add a note to my account stating that should this be a OP out i will be cancelling my service.

MovedGoalPosts 19-02-2008 15:11

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34491984)
I have just got off the phone to CS and asked them to add a note to my account stating that should this be a OP out i will be cancelling my service.

Troouble is, will the "powers that be" who make the decisions on this sort of stuff, get to know of your intent, before this is actually commenced.

Equally, with apparently the large ISPs already signed to this, and no doubt others taking a strong interest in it, where do you go to reliably avoid it :(

JadeFalcon 19-02-2008 15:25

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
i think you will find it is illegal to share customers details with anybody unless you have given strict permission to give that information out due to the data protection act, that is why you get tick boxes on applications and such stuff that allow you to opt in or out of having your details released to a 3rd party, as an opt out this would, imho, be illegal as it is in direct breach of the data protection

article 59 of the data protection act follows (have bolded the main points)--------

59 Confidentiality of information

(1) No person who is or has been the Commissioner, a member of the Commissioner’s staff or an agent of the Commissioner shall disclose any information which—
(a) has been obtained by, or furnished to, the Commissioner under or for the purposes of this Act,
(b) relates to an identified or identifiable individual or business, and
(c) is not at the time of the disclosure, and has not previously been, available to the public from other sources,
unless the disclosure is made with lawful authority.
(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) a disclosure of information is made with lawful authority only if, and to the extent that—
(a) the disclosure is made with the consent of the individual or of the person for the time being carrying on the business,

(b) the information was provided for the purpose of its being made available to the public (in whatever manner) under any provision of this Act,
(c) the disclosure is made for the purposes of, and is necessary for, the discharge of—
(i) any functions under this Act, or
(ii) any Community obligation,
(d) the disclosure is made for the purposes of any proceedings, whether criminal or civil and whether arising under, or by virtue of, this Act or otherwise, or
(e) having regard to the rights and freedoms or legitimate interests of any person, the disclosure is necessary in the public interest.
(3) Any person who knowingly or recklessly discloses information in contravention of subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.

also section 55

55 Unlawful obtaining etc. of personal data

(1) A person must not knowingly or recklessly, without the consent of the data controller—
(a) obtain or disclose personal data or the information contained in personal data, or
(b) procure the disclosure to another person of the information contained in personal data.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a person who shows—
(a) that the obtaining, disclosing or procuring—
(i) was necessary for the purpose of preventing or detecting crime, or
(ii) was required or authorised by or under any enactment, by any rule of law or by the order of a court,
(b) that he acted in the reasonable belief that he had in law the right to obtain or disclose the data or information or, as the case may be, to procure the disclosure of the information to the other person,
(c) that he acted in the reasonable belief that he would have had the consent of the data controller if the data controller had known of the obtaining, disclosing or procuring and the circumstances of it, or
(d) that in the particular circumstances the obtaining, disclosing or procuring was justified as being in the public interest.
(3) A person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence.
(4) A person who sells personal data is guilty of an offence if he has obtained the data in contravention of subsection (1).
(5) A person who offers to sell personal data is guilty of an offence if—
(a) he has obtained the data in contravention of subsection (1), or
(b) he subsequently obtains the data in contravention of that subsection.
(6) For the purposes of subsection (5), an advertisement indicating that personal data are or may be for sale is an offer to sell the data.
(7) Section 1(2) does not apply for the purposes of this section; and for the purposes of subsections (4) to (6), “personal data” includes information extracted from personal data.
(8) References in this section to personal data do not include references to personal data which by virtue of section 28 are exempt from this section.

Sirius 19-02-2008 15:29

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob (Post 34491986)
Troouble is, will the "powers that be" who make the decisions on this sort of stuff, get to know of your intent, before this is actually commenced.

Equally, with apparently the large ISPs already signed to this, and no doubt others taking a strong interest in it, where do you go to reliably avoid it :(

Its a matter of principal. BE unlimited have at this time not signed up so it will be BEunlimited i move to.

bringerofnoise 19-02-2008 15:37

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Surely they will have let people know in writing about this "service" so that people will have the option of opting out? If they don't then we'll have to make sure we tell as many people as we can and they tell thier friends and so on making it useless anyway.

lol i opted out

jcardiff 19-02-2008 15:37

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeFalcon (Post 34491992)
i think you will find it is illegal to share customers details with anybody unless you have given strict permission to give that information out due to the data protection act, that is why you get tick boxes on applications and such stuff that allow you to opt in or out of having your details released to a 3rd party, as an opt out this would, imho, be illegal as it is in direct breach of the data protection

I think you will find after the goverment cleared the inland revenue, the immigration service and royal mail of all people the allowance to check your phone records that the supposed laws that would help us in this situation are now being rewritten, yet another nail in our privacy laws brought to you by new fascist- sorry new labour

Akia 19-02-2008 17:10

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by melevittfl (Post 34491941)

Care to post how much you earn and where you live?

Yup £18k and Sheffield.

Mick 19-02-2008 17:46

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Akia (Post 34492050)
Yup £18k and Sheffield.

Whilst you are keen to post this information - others are not and they are entitled to this privacy although I notice you didn't post your full address. So you are keen to keep some details private.

Toto 19-02-2008 17:50

Re: Virgin Media Ad Deal - Would you be opting out?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 34491957)
Update:

Just got off the phone from the Virgin Media press office.

Basically VM haven't implemented anything yet so this is no where near launch. BT are apparently a step further and trialling it with 10,000 customers.

I raised the issue that customers should be given the choice to opt in, not the other way round. VM are looking at this process and are said to be finalising arrangements regarding this, nothing has been agreed yet.

At the moment - the option to opt out, the process involves a visit to a website, webwise and to tick a check box as to whether you want the service or not. This then stores a *cookie* on your computer.

I have asked we be sent some clear clarification on the whole process as there appears to be some ambiguity regarding how this all works.

I'll update this thread as and when I get more information.

Nice, thanks for that Mick


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