Cable Forum

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Virgin Media Internet Service (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=12)
-   -   Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

nj2112 08-03-2008 09:10

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
I wonder what this site http://www.webwise.ie/ thinks of Phorm using webwise as the name of part of their operation. Well when I say site, I think that means the Irish government and possibly the EU.

dav 08-03-2008 09:37

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler (Post 34502507)
Apologies if posted before, but there's a statement by ICO here...

I may be a bit behind with this, but the ICO statement seems to contradict what Kent Ertugrul(sp?) was saying in various recent statements. He said that they had already cleared this technology with all the relevant bodies. Did this also include the ICO? I can't remember.

If it did, then either he, or ICO isn't telling the truth because the ICO have only just requested the info...

---------- Post added at 08:18 ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by bringerofnoise (Post 34502602)
ChrisT's post is well written and speaks volumes

The missus is already looking at sky TV for price and if this goes ahead....i did'nt ever think i would say this but BE here i come, always been an advocate of NTL selling many people VM internet 'n i don't even work for em.My question:will VM listen to customers or rely upon the non realizing customers to chase £.

Same here. I hate to think about joining the Sky evil empire, but I'd rather get in bed with Murdoch than Phorm:shocked:
That's how strongly I feel

---------- Post added at 08:37 ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 ----------

Looks as if TalkTalk are getting their act together and actually listening...

http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forum...&postcount=117

Sirius 08-03-2008 09:48

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dav (Post 34502687)

Looks as if TalkTalk are getting their act together and actually listening...

http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forum...&postcount=117



Well done Talk Talk :clap::clap: for having the balls to listen to your customers

Quote:

By making the service Opt In, we feel the onus remains firmly with Phorm to make the service useful and compelling enough that subscribers will choose to join it. If it fails to do this, it will itself fail.

We are committed to running a trial with Phorm, but with two very important conditions.

* Firstly, it will be an Opt In, not an Opt Out service. This means you will have to proactively choose to be a participant of the service.
* Secondly, those who have not chosen to participate will not ever come into contact with any Phorm equipment hosted within Talktalk. Details of who has membership of Phorm will be maintained in our network, and only those who have chosen to participate will be passed to Phorm.
Off course VM will not say anything because they don't have the brain cells to work out that the quote above is what we want to hear. They will blindly carry on committing self destruction over this and forcing everyone into a OPT OUT situation by the stupid cookie system or the preferred for me option of total disconnection of all Virgin Media Services

none 08-03-2008 10:29

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
In a previous post I noted that the reason Phorm (or rather their representatives) have come onto this board and others was purely out of self-interest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by none
Dont be so quick to give credit.

They come here because its in their own selfish interest to do so, nothing more.


Need proof, see here - http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...wtopic.php?408
Quote:

Originally Posted by bubblehelp
It looks as if this nasty company is starting to take a hit in the share price.

from a high of 3506p at the end of last week, the current price is 2785p

By close on friday the the price dropped by 7.3% in the day

if we can can not win with the ISP's we can always bankrupt the scum. The prices and listings are at

http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/deta...n:PHRM.L&it=le

Sign up and in 48 hours you can post on the message board. Help to kill the company on the stock market spread the word.


You can also keep track of their share price here - http://www.londonstockexchange.com/e...RM#PriceChartl


With £16M riding on this, Kent Ertsdfsdfsf certainly has a lot to lose. So you can defiantly expect more PR fluff n spin in the coming weeks/months.

Traduk 08-03-2008 12:04

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
The announcement by Talk Talk needs IMO to be read in the context of purely what is says and what it doesn't say.

They state very clearly that they are committed to the trial from which it can be assumed that a contractual obligation exists which would be financially painful to them should they not proceed.

The statement regarding opt-in must be viewed ONLY with regards to the trial and trialists because that is all the statement truly relates to and has no relevance to what might happen with a general roll-out.

IMO they have hedged their bets very neatly and pushed into the future any decision on whether it's a failure and we will not implement or it's the best thing since sliced bread therefore everyone must have it and it's opt-out.

I suspect that this is a clever ploy to buy time and let the furore settle down and will probably be adopted by the other ISP's. It does open another avenue of approach for Talk Talk users which is that if the Phorm system can be totally by-passed in a trial then by default it must be possible if the profiler is implemented on a permanent basis. If the ISP subsequently chooses that opt-out is the way to go then they become accountable for that choice.

Sirius 08-03-2008 12:16

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Traduk (Post 34502761)
The announcement by Talk Talk needs IMO to be read in the context of purely what is says and what it doesn't say.

They state very clearly that they are committed to the trial from which it can be assumed that a contractual obligation exists which would be financially painful to them should they not proceed.

The statement regarding opt-in must be viewed ONLY with regards to the trial and trialists because that is all the statement truly relates to and has no relevance to what might happen with a general roll-out.

IMO they have hedged their bets very neatly and pushed into the future any decision on whether it's a failure and we will not implement or it's the best thing since sliced bread therefore everyone must have it and it's opt-out.

I suspect that this is a clever ploy to buy time and let the furore settle down and will probably be adopted by the other ISP's. It does open another avenue of approach for Talk Talk users which is that if the Phorm system can be totally by-passed in a trial then by default it must be possible if the profiler is implemented on a permanent basis. If the ISP subsequently chooses that opt-out is the way to go then they become accountable for that choice.

There has been a lot more said in Talk Talks statement then the Virgin Media one.

If they can completely remove you from the profiler then i cannot see why VM will not be able to do the same.

Toto 08-03-2008 12:54

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34502538)
Ok they really dont know there arses from there faces :LOL:



So even though you opt out Virgin Media will still receive the data stream and will know Exactly what you are doing at any time.

So in my eyes the OPT OUT from this SPYWARE is no such thing. VIRGIN will still be able to track you every move. ?

Anything whats so bloody ever. :upyours: Virgin Bloody Media

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 34502699)
Well done Talk Talk :clap::clap: for having the balls to listen to your customers



Off course VM will not say anything because they don't have the brain cells to work out that the quote above is what we want to hear. They will blindly carry on committing self destruction over this and forcing everyone into a OPT OUT situation by the stupid cookie system or the preferred for me option of total disconnection of all Virgin Media Services

Good news Sirius, but help me out here. In your top quote, when you still hated the fact that according to the opinions of some, and none from VM, they would still collect your browsing data, even after you opted out.....how is that different from Talk Talk?

Keep in mind also that both BT and Talk Talk have commited to trials which means installation of their equipment inside their network edge, that is why their logo's are on the Webise page, VM have not, they are only looking at the proposal.

Or were you just agreeing that Talk Talk made it an opt-in service?

Couple of questions then.

Would you go to Talk Talk now that they have made this opted in?

Would you stay with VM if they also went opt in only?

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traduk (Post 34502761)
The announcement by Talk Talk needs IMO to be read in the context of purely what is says and what it doesn't say.

They state very clearly that they are committed to the trial from which it can be assumed that a contractual obligation exists which would be financially painful to them should they not proceed.

The statement regarding opt-in must be viewed ONLY with regards to the trial and trialists because that is all the statement truly relates to and has no relevance to what might happen with a general roll-out.

IMO they have hedged their bets very neatly and pushed into the future any decision on whether it's a failure and we will not implement or it's the best thing since sliced bread therefore everyone must have it and it's opt-out.

I suspect that this is a clever ploy to buy time and let the furore settle down and will probably be adopted by the other ISP's. It does open another avenue of approach for Talk Talk users which is that if the Phorm system can be totally by-passed in a trial then by default it must be possible if the profiler is implemented on a permanent basis. If the ISP subsequently chooses that opt-out is the way to go then they become accountable for that choice.

:clap:

And you can bet there are a raft of other ISP's waiting to add this to their system. Reminds me of Sky going to google mail for its customers.....and the mess they made of that. ;)

none 08-03-2008 13:46

Dont want to be phormed? Look here
 
Just noticed that there a nice Firefox Plugin to help mess with phorms system. Its called dephormation.

Note however, dephormation is not a solution. Its mearly a fig leaf for your privacy.

original forum link - http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=758923
Quote:

Originally Posted by artnada
"Pete", is a user/customer who is as annoyed about VM's potential selling of your browsing habits, as the rest of us are. In the VM newsgroups he has created a Firefox (FF2) Plugin for us all. I considered this so important that I even converted to FF from Maxthon.


Here is his message.

Hello all,

I've got all the Dephormation options working now (see
http://www.dephormation.org.uk/ or http://www.planetsaturn.pwp.blueyond...k/dephormation .... same page).

I've added a feature which alerts you to Phorm/Webwise/OIX content/links/ads on a page (off by default, but easy to enable).

The startup alert is more informative, but can also be suppressed using the options.

Enjoy. Feedback is always welcome.

Pete.
=======================================

Tested on FF 2.0.0.12/Window XP. Will install into 1.5 - 2.0.0.x.

To install;
1) Save dephormation.xpi to your hard disk.
2) Select Tools Menu/Add-ons to display the Add-on window.
3) Drag the XPI file into the Firefox Add-on window.
4) Restart Firefox. An alert is displayed as Firefox starts confirming that Dephormation is active.

To uninstall
1) Select Tools menu/Add-ons to display the Add-on window.
2) Click on the Dephormation 'Uninstall' button
3) Restart Firefox.

Options;

"Disable Phorm" - sets a Phorm opt out cookie with every page load (defaults to on) Startup Alert - displays a Dephormation startup confirmation (defaults to on)

"Randomize UID" - changes the Phorm UID cookie to a random message (defaults to on)

"OIX Ad Alert" - displays an alert if a page you are viewing contains
Phorm/OIX/Webwise references (defaults to off)

nice to see people are already coming up with thoughts and ideas on how to hinder phorm

Sirius 08-03-2008 13:55

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34502774)
Good news Sirius, but help me out here. In your top quote, when you still hated the fact that according to the opinions of some, and none from VM, they would still collect your browsing data, even after you opted out.....how is that different from Talk Talk?

Keep in mind also that both BT and Talk Talk have committed to trials which means installation of their equipment inside their network edge, that is why their logo's are on the Website page, VM have not, they are only looking at the proposal.

Or were you just agreeing that Talk Talk made it an opt-in service?

Couple of questions then.

Would you go to Talk Talk now that they have made this opted in?

Would you stay with VM if they also went opt in only?

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------



:clap:

And you can bet there are a raft of other ISP's waiting to add this to their system. Reminds me of Sky going to Google mail for its customers.....and the mess they made of that. ;)

Just for those that CANNOT read what i stated.

I will stay with VM IF they can guarantee that my data does not get touched in any way by any of the equipment that they will install in there headends or pop sites. IF talk talk say that they can do that then VM should be able to do that again. I do NOT want my personal information to be subject to Deep Packet Investigation. To do that VM will have to install equipment. I do not give and will not give VM permission to do that. Should they do that i WILL disconnect all my services from them.

If i have to disconnect i will go to a company that has NO Phorm spyware equipment installed in the POP or exchange that they use. At the moment that will be Be Unlimited.


Now was that clear enough

mertle 08-03-2008 14:55

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
I know few here saying if VM go ahead thats it they are moving lock stock and barrel there custom.

Thats your decision but you must remember your moving from the frying pan and straight into the fire if you goto BT telephony & SKY TV.

If you think VM is bad then SKY, BT is just as evil to support PHORM and dont deserve custom.

Why should you move your TV to SKY if SKY talk talk is going to support PHORM. To me it does not add up on that front.

As for telephony its different you still got to go to a scummy company BT so we can get a NON compliant ISP.

BT probably laughing that they know they cant lose custom due to we all have to move to BT in order to get BE.

I maintain if I do have to go BT my TV will stay with VM the alternative I suppose is freeview(not exactly brilliant service), I am not allowed a satelite but for those who want a clean break from these companies I suggest look into FREESAT for TV.

You cant completely cut ranks to teach all companies a lesson due to telephony issue.
I suppose you could decide against a land line all together and go mobile but then what about internet.

Basically in a sense what I am saying you cant punish one to move to another evil attitude company who is going to support PHORM. It makes no sense.

Florence 08-03-2008 15:00

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
I have Sky for TV if I move all I move is Telephone and Internet...

RizzyKing 08-03-2008 15:25

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
Mertle i understand and see the point you are making but what alternative is there. Are you saying oppose this but if our protests are ignored do nothing??!!!!. can you imagine what will be next if everyone does that it just shout to company's "treat me how you want and i won't do anything cause your all crap" no if people feel strongly then they should take action. If that means moving to an isp using BT infrastructure then fine as long as that isp doesn't use and will not use phorm i can live with that.

Traduk 08-03-2008 15:42

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
It does not make sense to remove all packages from VM and place some or part of those packages with companies who also within BB divisions follow the same practices but the central point of leaving is being missed.

If I leave VM it will be all packages and the cost to them is way in excess of a grand per annum. They lose that money and will never get it back. If the replacements are B.T. landline then they get telephone rental and billing and from that I can choose a non Phorm ISP and change suppliers with a simple MAC code if they go Phorm.

The TV would be via Sky and it is fairly obvious that no contractual obligations would be entered into which incorporated BB.

With VM we are a captive audience based on technology but a break from that into the other technologies facilitates freedom.

It is the practice of many multi-faceted companies to operate separate divisions and independent profit centres under a central umbrella. Consumer power comes from recognising that the company is a whole environment and that removal of funding from the whole is maximising the impact against the division that wishes to implement undesirable changes. VM is without doubt very vulnerable to churn over this issue and on a spend factor per customer possibly on a ratio of X4 or X5.

popper 08-03-2008 16:09

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
:D
it appears PhormUKTechTeam is now known as PhormUKPRteam

see his latest comments here
http://techdirt.com/articles/20080306/074534461.shtml
well done, if only it were that easy to stop the unlawful processing of your data to the 'The ISP's profiler' (note their really pushing the onus of blame to the ISP now as noted above).

remember kids, send that 'Data Protection Act notice' and make sure to mention to remove the right to process,export or pass your data property to the 'profiler' as well as anything outside provision and billing.

ohh BTW, on that MPs blog,Techteam (as apposed PhormUKTechTeam, aka PhormUKPRTeam) claims to be infact a real tech inside Phorm
"I am part of the techteam (and use the name techteam) at phorm...."
http://www.bobpiper.co.uk/2008/03/theyve_got_phorm.php

---------- Post added at 15:02 ---------- Previous post was at 14:47 ----------

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...t_mid2006.html
Phorm has been hatching its plans since at least mid-2006
...
And here's some confirmation: an article from Citywire from April 2006, just after Carphone Warehouse announced its "free" broadband service. (Well, the broadband is free, but you have to switch to its phone service.)
Citywire doesn't store its old pages (how useless is that?) but Google's cache does.

The article begins:
One company that rejoiced at Carphone Warehouse's recent free broadband launch is 121Media, a recently AIM-listed company that reckons it has the revenue model ISPs will now need to survive.
121Media has developed a piece of technology that sits on the server of an internet service provider (ISP) and enables usage data to be collected and analysed on the fly for every one of the ISP's customers. The data is anonymous, but tells the system exactly which web pages the user has viewed and what they have done on those pages, so that an advert can be served to them as they wait for the next page to load, which is precisely targeted to their usage patterns.
Fascinating. I guess we all weren't paying enough attention, eh?

Slightly over-optimistic though was the prediction that
[Ertegrul] said revenues should start coming in from this new business model in the second half of this year.
That would be 2006. We might not see the results until the second half of this year - 2008.
...
"

---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dc5d99ee-e...0779fd2ac.html
"
Phorm down on search protests

By Robert Orr and Neil Hume
Published: March 7 2008 02:00 | Last updated: March 7 2008 02:00

Phorm shares came under pressure yesterday as the online advertising group ran into protests over its targeted search technology.

The Aim-listed company's software maps browsing histories and uses them to target individuals with tailored advertising.

Customers of internet providers that have struck deals with the company recently (BT, Virgin Media and TalkTalk) have complained and a website (www.badphorm.co.uk) has been created for the airing of grievances.

Phorm said its technology protected users' privacy. Its shares closed down 6.5 per cent at £30.75."

Tezcatlipoca 08-03-2008 16:46

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mertle (Post 34502808)
If you think VM is bad then SKY, BT is just as evil to support PHORM and dont deserve custom.

Why should you move your TV to SKY if SKY talk talk is going to support PHORM. To me it does not add up on that front.


Sky does not (yet?) support Phorm.


TalkTalk = The Carphone Warehouse's broadband, not Sky.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:40.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.