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-   -   Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

lostandconfused 20-03-2008 17:43

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34510676)
I've had something very similar, however my original e-mail included notice to terminate all services. In their reply they added that "as they are not using webwise they won't act on my notice" or words to that effect. I don't think it works like that, forcing me to be a customer!

It's innane - at the end of the months notice I will forward the original notice to them again and just cancel my DD. Typical telewest/virgin. What i'm not prepared to do is spend hours on the 'phone sorting this all out.


The probably thought (reasonably IMO) that you wanted to cancel because you thought that phorm was being intorduced. seeing as its not they have not acted on your notice. Instead of making things difficult for yourselfd and eventually spendning much more time on the phone sorting it out. HOw about just sending another email explaining that you still want to cancel your services regardless of phorm being introduced???

popper 20-03-2008 18:52

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
i cant seem to find the reference now, but i seem to recall seeing a text that stated the Phorm Kit was infact NOT accessable to the ISP techs/staff.

that it was infact, a closed system that Phorm personel and only they could telnet/remote access in to these boxes and administer as required.

but it was said that they would not do so unless authorised by the ISP staff....

its not in the
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?...2&pid=22777122

and its strange that that thread hasnt gone anywere given the contents such as this.

"by anticypher (48312) <anticypher@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Monday March 17, @04:37PM
"Here are the notes I took from a sales pitch to a client.

Although NDAs were passed around, all of the technical and business consulting staff refused to sign them, so this information is freely available and can in no way be considered a trade secret.

Some of my notes come from other people's observations in the ensuing PR war. "
...
"Phorm has addressed the main part of pesky privacy laws in Europe by "gifting" the collection equipment to the ISP using a standard 5 year depreciation schedule.

The interception and initial filtering kit officially becomes property of the ISP, but is installed, maintained, configured and run by Phorm's technical team.

If the equipment stays 5 years in the ISP's premises, then it becomes the full property of the ISP.

The ISP can claim to privacy oversight groups that the equipment belongs to them, and that all the personal information hasn't left their network should post-analysis show the customer has "opted-out" of passing the information to Phorm's China-based servers.

The data is still captured and analyzed, just not all of it is passed to Phorm.
"
...
"The problem I, and others, had with Phorm's plan was that they leave some kind of HTML trick code running in the browser session to track all subsequent web traffic and to allow them to intercept anything they believe to be relevant"

anyone seen and got the text reference for the no ISP personel access to the kit?.

and its strange given the ISP wont fully own the kit until 5 years is up.

PS, i noticed earlyer, PRphorm was reading but didnt take the time to comment on any posts since his last PR'ed post here ;)

BeckyD 20-03-2008 19:16

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34510758)
i cant seem to find the reference now, but i seem to recall seeing a text that stated the Phorm Kit was infact NOT accessable to the ISP techs/staff.

that it was infact, a closed system that Phorm personel and only they could telnet/remote access in to these boxes and administer as required.

but it was said that they would not do so unless authorised by the ISP staff....

.......

anyone seen and got the text reference for the no ISP personel access to the kit?.

Is it the recent Q&A on badphorm.co.uk that you're looking for? Specifically questions 11 through 13?

Quote:

Q11. Do Phorm or Phorm agents have any physical access to these servers?
A11. No, unless there is a need for maintenance or an update, authorized by the ISP.


Q12. Do Phorm or Phorm agents have any remote access to these servers, other than to passively download information?
A12. No, and there isn’t such access even to passively download information.


Q13. In particular, can Phorm perform any remote configuration on these servers?
A13. No, unless there is a need for maintenance or an update, authorized by the ISP.

OF1975 20-03-2008 19:18

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34510758)
....PS, i noticed earlyer, PRphorm was reading but didnt take the time to comment on any posts since his last PR'ed post here ;)

The share price is only down 6.58% today so far today so maybe they think they have turned the corner and the fight back is running out of steam? If thats why they havent been active then they have made a big mistake. This isnt going to go away. No amount of PR, lies and deception will placate us. Only once this system becomes opt-in, with a complete bypass of phorms system for those who choose against opting in, will this issue die down.

popper 20-03-2008 19:46

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMinion (Post 34510775)
Is it the recent Q&A on badphorm.co.uk that you're looking for? Specifically questions 11 through 13?

no , but ill find it if i can find some time, its the total oposit of this , the text said only Phorm personel had access and i think it mentioned BT ISP personal didnt get access.

it wasnt a Q&A but a tech comment, i think about 2 or 3 days ago.

but i do read and go out of my way to find the less main stream Phorm tech postings sites to try and get a better view so if its on one of them it might take a while.

that reason i want it is so we can try and collate a reference with times and dates to make it easyer to to see the true access of the partys involved collecting and messing with our
data.

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:36 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by OF1975 (Post 34510778)
The share price is only down 6.58% today so far today so maybe they think they have turned the corner and the fight back is running out of steam?

If thats why they havent been active then they have made a big mistake.

This isnt going to go away. No amount of PR, lies and deception will placate us.

Only once this system becomes opt-in, with a complete bypass of phorms system for those who choose against opting in, will this issue die down.

carrage returns are good ;)

i like the
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=LON:PHRM graph.

although it seems they bounced back a little bit later today, most try harder...


Ps.why are you 19 guests reading not registering and posting here to give your thoughts, the more the meryer, go on you know you want too...

and take part in the poll, its upto 26 now...

BeckyD 20-03-2008 19:48

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34510790)
no , but ill find it if i can find some time, its the total oposit of this , the text said only Phorm personel had access and i think it mentioned BT ISP personal didnt get access.

No worries, I'll look forward to reading it myself should you come across it again. :)

I just found a new article on the NY Times that has an interesting quote (may need to login to view):

Quote:

“As you browse, we’re able to categorize all of your Internet actions,” said Virasb Vahidi, the chief operating officer of Phorm. “We actually can see the entire Internet.”
Well don't I feel all happy and secure now? </sarcasm>

popper 20-03-2008 20:00

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
LOL, Chris just has to keep bringing up Phorm in all the headlines
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/20/weekly_0320/
Vista SP1 launched as Phorm declared illegal


The Register Weekly Digest has been put together to make your life easy.

---------- Post added at 19:00 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyMinion (Post 34510801)
No worries, I'll look forward to reading it myself should you come across it again. :)

I just found a new article on the NY Times that has an interesting quote (may need to login to view):

Well don't I feel all happy and secure now? </sarcasm>

LOL Yeah, heres its billing and a fair use bit... incase you didnt register.

"
A Company Promises the Deepest Data Mining Yet.
By LOUISE STORY
Published: March 20, 20.08

Amid debate over how much data companies like Google and Yahoo should gather about people who surf the Web, one new company is drawing attention — and controversy — by boasting that it will collect the most complete information of all.

The company, called Phorm, has created a tool that can track every single online action of a given consumer, based on data from that person’s Internet service provider."

GO Virasb Vahidi, the chief operating officer of Phorm and PRTeam....:D

AlexanderHanff 20-03-2008 20:13

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
This is hilarious :)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...n_phorm_clone/

Alexander Hanff

Griffin 20-03-2008 20:16

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I wonder why it is, but i get the feeling that VM & Phorm are treating us all like Mushrooms.
We are being kept in the dark & being fed bull***t.

bigbadcol 20-03-2008 20:22

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34510790)
i like the
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=LON:PHRM graph.
although it seems they bounced back a little bit later today, most try harder...
and take part in the poll, its upto 26 now...

Somebody came along and invested £3,509,110 at the last minute. That is a heck of a lot of money. Even then the price is down day on day. :)

popper 20-03-2008 20:29

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34510817)
This is hilarious :)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...n_phorm_clone/

Alexander Hanff

:juggle: so which behavioral targeted ad do they send to which Esther Dyson :erm:

AlexanderHanff 20-03-2008 20:38

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbadcol (Post 34510826)
Somebody came along and invested £3,509,110 at the last minute. That is a heck of a lot of money. Even then the price is down day on day. :)

They obvious have way more money than sense. Given the news from the US today that US legislators are insisting that the service -must- be explicitly opted in and Phorm's success relies on opting people in by default. The news in the NY Times is not really mainstream at the moment, but it is going to have a huge impact on Phorm's attempts in the US and is likely to hit the share prices very hard next week.

The person who bought all those shares at the last minute probably assumed the price would not drop much lower, I think they are going to be very surprised and disappointed. Either that or it was a shorter who had a large sale to honour (which means they may have made a packet just from that single trade).

Alexander Hanff

dav 20-03-2008 20:48

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbadcol (Post 34510826)
Somebody came along and invested £3,509,110 at the last minute. That is a heck of a lot of money. Even then the price is down day on day. :)


If you look on the LSE, you'll see that that transaction was cancelled immediately



Quote:

Bid Offer Volume High Low Last Close
1,750.00 1,800.00 271,694 2,300.00 1,725.00 1,775.00 on 20-Mar-2008
Last 5 trades

Time/Date Price Volume Trade value Type
16:35:33 20-Mar-2008 2,300.00 152,570 3,509,110.00 Cancelled
16:35:33 20-Mar-2008 2,300.00 152,570 3,509,110.00 Ordinary Trade
16:25:13 20-Mar-2008 1,783.33 500 8,916.67 Ordinary Trade
16:23:40 20-Mar-2008 1,775.00 6,700 118,925.00 Cancelled
16:23:40 20-Mar-2008 1,775.00 6,700 118,925.00 Ordinary Trade

Florence 20-03-2008 20:56

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I just completed a tracert to a website I am trying to help the owner solve some issues he has and noticed the change in IP number for first hop.

Quote:

10.26.240.1

Tracing route to gizemail.com [84.203.122.69]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms WRT54GS [192.168.1.1]
2 27 ms 5 ms 5 ms 10.26.240.1
3 26 ms 9 ms 9 ms oldh-t2cam1-a-v144.inet.ntl.com [213.104.83.65]

4 6 ms 10 ms 8 ms 62.252.192.165
5 9 ms 12 ms 10 ms man-bb-a-as0-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.175.1]
6 15 ms 30 ms 21 ms 212.43.162.214
7 16 ms 30 ms 13 ms tele-ic-1-as0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.184.2]
8 23 ms 50 ms 21 ms te4-3.mpd01.lon02.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.14
.141]
9 25 ms 23 ms 31 ms te9-3.mpd02.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.1.
17]
10 24 ms 23 ms 24 ms vl3493.mpd01.lon01.atlas.cogentco.com [130.117.2
.17]
11 21 ms 22 ms 20 ms smart-telecom.demarc.cogentco.com [149.6.80.254]

12 24 ms 23 ms 21 ms ge2-0-0-100.bas1.deg.dub.stisp.net [84.203.130.1
26]
13 41 ms 40 ms 38 ms mail.gizagoo.com [84.203.122.69]

Trace complete.
When you do a whois the ip you get
Quote:

Request: 10.26.240.1

OrgName: Internet Assigned Numbers Authority
OrgID: IANA
Address: 4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330
City: Marina del Rey
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 90292-6695
Country: US

NetRange: 10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255
CIDR: 10.0.0.0/8
NetName: RESERVED-10
NetHandle: NET-10-0-0-0-1
Parent:
NetType: IANA Special Use
NameServer: BLACKHOLE-1.IANA.ORG
NameServer: BLACKHOLE-2.IANA.ORG
Comment: This block is reserved for special purposes.
Comment: Please see RFC 1918 for additional information:
Comment: http://www.arin.net/reference/rfc/rfc1918.txt
RegDate:
Updated: 2007-11-27

OrgAbuseHandle: IANA-IP-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Number
OrgAbusePhone: +1-310-301-5820
OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@iana.org

OrgTechHandle: IANA-IP-ARIN
OrgTechName: Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Number
OrgTechPhone: +1-310-301-5820
OrgTechEmail: abuse@iana.org

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2008-03-19 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.
So what is going on!

Yes since the phorm outbreak I feel like am getting paranoid on who is watching me...

JackSon 20-03-2008 20:57

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
That's the router talking to the Modem on the Modem's private internal IP I believe. Is why the IP is in the reserved private netowrk range. Its nothing on the external net.


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