U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

U.S news but pretty major: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...inion-00029473

Overturning Row vs Wade is huge alone. This would be the world's richest, most powerful, country removing abortion rights in a Western world which typically moves towards liberalising them. Although it wouldn't ban abortion but remove the constitutional block to individual states banning it themselves. Many have laws ready to be enforced the moment the bill is overturned.

But it's also a huge story because it was leaked and this is going to tear the country apart even more than it usually does. This is a country that hates each other over silly things like masks, what a comedian says on Netflix or on a podcast.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning abortion leaked
 

The issue is whether it should be a federal matter or a state-level(ie democratic) matter.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning abortion leaked
 

'State level' doesn't guarantee that actions are automatically more democratic.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning abortion leaked
 

It should definitely be federal and I would go one step further and I would argue should be international and enshrined in law based on an established consensus by the scientific community.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning abortion leaked
 

It would be more accurate to say the issue is whether it’s a constitutional matter. Most federal matters are settled by democratically elected representatives making legislation, or by exercise of executive power by an elected president. Federal government is just as democratic as state government.

In this case the Supreme Court rules on whether government can ban abortion, or whether that would infringe on the constitutional right not to have one’s liberty excessively infringed upon by government. Even so, it is possible, although very difficult, to alter the constitution to make it explicit on this point rather than subject to shifting legal opinion.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning abortion leaked
 

It's a difficult one, and always will be. I'm a man so will never be in the position of a woman with an unwanted pregnancy.

Still, I find an abortion of convenience uncomfortable. That's just my opinion.

What I can't square, is the fight for the right to take a life that hasn't been given a chance to live, yet deny a person who has lived a life and facing a debilitating and degrading death the chance to end their life on their terms.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning abortion leaked
 

There is also the way a lot of the evangelical right look at this. They don't want women to have access to safe and legal abortion, but as soon as the resulting child is born they don't seem to want any support for them and the family at either the state or federal level.

I also don't understand why a lot of the same people that are supportive for the 'right to life' when it comes to abortion are also big supporters of the death penalty.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Individual states are passing laws in relation to abortion. Therefore the legal competence lies with the individual states. It is the Supreme Court that has imposed limits on what they can decide(ie they can't have a blanket ban), not the Federal government. If the Federal government had legal competence on these matters, then they would've already shut down the possibility of the individual states having their own restrictions.

With the Roe vs Wade decision, not even the Federal government could overturn it. How is that democratic?

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

That's the way their system works.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning abortion leaked
 

Then again why do those who oppose the death penalty, can also be in favour of someone being pulled apart and needing an anaesthetic because they can feel pain.:confused:

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ral-right-vote

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

The US Constitution states, in terms, that government may not unreasonably impinge on the liberty of the individual. The Supreme Court’s opinion is that this means neither federal nor state government may pass laws banning abortion, as this would represent an unreasonable infringement of a woman’s liberty.

Your argument is illogical. You’re claiming that states are trying to do something, therefore they have the competence to do it, whereas federal government hasn’t tried to stop them, therefore does not have the competence to stop them. However there are a range of other possible explanations for the actions of the states and the federal government. In particular there would be no value in the federal government legislating on abortion when it is a controversial issue, and the Supreme Court has already ruled on it.

The constitution is held a couple of steps back from being able to be changed by simple legislation because it is supposed to be the defining document of a nation state, not a reflection of temporary political preferences. Nevertheless there are democratic procedures available to change it, and those who interpret it are appointed by others who have been democratically elected. In fact it is the shifting political climate in the USA that has now brought it to the point where the Supreme Court position on abortion might now change.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

That's not what the ruling says though (if true)

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

The individual states ARE imposing their own restrictions because they have the legal competence to do so.
As your quote stated :- "part of strategy to push back against rush of state laws". Of course, if the makeup of Congress etc changes, then they could return full control to the individual states.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

As much as I can tell without the full knowledge of how the US law works, if Roe vs Wade is struck down (along with the linked Casey one) then the States laws are the ones that will apply without the ability to dispute them at the federal level - unless or until a federal law is passed.

If a federal abortion law is passed you can bet this ends up back at the Supreme Court where the states who have the opposite one would dispute it. That's true in both circumstances i.e. restrictive state laws and a federal access law or vice versa.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

States can do whatever they are competent to do. By definition they cannot do what they are not competent to do. Even if they try, their actions will be struck down by the Supreme Court. States can make laws around access to abortion but they can’t ban it. They are not competent to do so because it is unconstitutional.

I didn’t say that, nor have I linked to anyone who did. :confused:

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

I don't think that's true. From the Politico story:


---------- Post added at 12:10 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------

There has been no law banning it to date because of Roe vs Wade. Once that's gone I don't think there is any constitutional bar to a ban.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning abortion leaked
 

:tu:

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Somewhat confusingly, I’m talking about the constitutional ban as it now stands, not as it might change… Don’t forget, what we’re talking about this morning is a draft, unpublished ruling that may yet never come to pass. As of right now, the states are not competent to ban abortion, because the supreme court opinion as it presently stands is that abortion is unconstitutional.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

It's going to be interesting to see what happens now. As the original stated it was been known for votes to change between drafts and the Justices debate and seek to change each other's minds.

But it's hard to imagine that they hadn't known where they are on this issue for years now. It's one the main issues they get appointed with in mind.

And who leaked it? Why? Seems like someone inside the court released it in order to try and exert pressure on the justices or politicians ahead of the mid-terms.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

If this had been on another subject it would have been called a violation of procedural justice and a threat to democracy. But it was this, so it's fine.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Here we go again, media scaremongering that will probably lead to another 100+ page thread on something that may not turn out to be fact.

It's a draft of what one of the SCOTUS considers to be the final decision which has gone to the others for input.

Everything or parts could change before the final decision as has happened before. It is not yet a done deal.

The final ruling will not be until June/July.

If Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, Texas will completely ban abortion.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...inion-00029473



---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:07 ----------

Interesting point (imho) at the end of an article in today’s Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...supreme-court/

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

What are you trying to say Hugh? Yes it is is the first draft of apparently the majority opiniion written by ONE person. Has he got the opinions of those others correct? This is why it is a draft.

Why does it matter when it was circulated when the final decision isn't expected until June/July?

Has it been corrected/changed/ammended since then?

Kavenaugh has to be very careful as he stated under oath in front of congress that Roe v Wade was a settled question. Even a Supreme Court Justice can be impeached.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

The Majority and Minority opinions are usually written by one person to speak as the voice of the court.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Yes, they can but like presidential impeachments, requires super majority in the Senate, Republicans won’t side with the Democrats and the pathetic Democrats can’t keep using the impeachment tool to get their own way, it wasn’t designed for that.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

If the document is genuine, then it has already been decided. The document is in order to set out the reasons for that decision, and for the other majority Judges to agree with it.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Not necessarily true…

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/10961...pinion-process

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

The reasons for a decision are one thing, the actual decision is another.
If the decision changes, who then writes the reasons? There must've been a broad agreement on the reasons for the document to exist.


It would be silly if each Judge had to write two personal opinions of the reasons. One agreeing with an outcome, the other disagreeing.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Not necessarily, however multiple people apparently in the know have said today that in this case, the basic decision has been made and it is only likely to be the reasons that are finessed before publication. The leak is likely to have occurred in order to get maximum change to the reasons, potentially limiting the impact of the decision.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Either the Federal government can impose it's own restrictions over the heads of the individual States, or it can't. Can't see too much of an in-between.
The document is now out there, so any significant changes will involve interfering with the judicial process. The leaking of the document means the decision cannot be changed or the reasons finessed in any significant way.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

The ‘finessing’ would only occur in private discussion between the Supreme Court justices. There’s no role in this process for the federal government. The leaking has probably occurred at the hands of one of the dissenting minority and is designed to put public pressure on the majority to weaken their final, official opinion as much as possible, given that what they’re intent on doing is clearly opposed by a majority across the US as a whole.

Assuming Roe v Wade is set aside this summer, and certain states trigger their pre-prepared legislation to ban abortion, there then might arise the question of whether the federal government can legislate to overrule them. That in itself would I suspect become a constitutional issue though it’s far beyond my knowledge of the subject.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

You say that the "finessing" would be in private, but also say that it would be a result of public pressure.:confused: That is still unduly influencing a judicial decision.

With this decision, complete control would rest with the individual States. Nothing the Federal government could do about it.
Whether or not the majority of the US as a whole, has a certain opinion, doesn't give the Federal authorities the automatic right to override matters that are controlled at State level. Just as the UK government doesn't have a say on devolved matters in the UK.
Link

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

I’m not sure what you find confusing about this. Decisions taken in private can most definitely be affected by public pressure.

Actually not quite the same because the UK devolution settlements only delegate responsibility for certain issues, they don’t cede sovereignty over them. The UK Parliament can legislate in devolved areas, without agreement from the devolved administrations, and has done so in some recent changes to UK market rules post-Brexit. The UK government has a say - when it really wants to - by putting legislation to the UK parliament.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Funny isn’t it how liberals scream and protest my body, my choice, but didn’t do the same when it came to compulsory covid vaccinations.

If and when Roe v Wade is struck down by the Supreme Court of the United States, abortion doesn’t become banned. Each State will have their own laws, so California and New York, would still permit abortions.

To ban or permit abortion nationwide, would require a Constitutional Amendment and that requires in itself huge hurdles to overcome, it would never happen.

If the Democrats create a law, just via Congressional means, the Supreme Court could declare it unconstitutional via judicial review and strike it down. Critics feel the Supreme Court is undemocratic, overturning Congress and executive orders via the president, but the Supreme Court, always applies the Constitution to legal tests, and the Constitution, is Democratic, because it’s always been the ‘will of the people’.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

You'd better have a read of this. It doesn't represent the court's decision.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Yes but that can be quite a hurdle if you've not got much money and are in the Southwestern States. I believe some of these states are also looking at criminalising going across State lines for an abortion although I imagine that would end up in the Supreme Court pretty sharpish.

The Republicans might be looking at a federal ban after 6 weeks as well: https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...t-mississippi/

Although that is probably unconstitutional as well.

---------- Post added at 09:05 ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 ----------

It doesn't represent a final decision but no one is saying that, they're saying this is a very strong indicator they're going to be making this decision.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

I don't think the supreme court can strike down such a federal law, especially if it was considered THE correct interpretation of the constitution just a few months ago.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

I see they have sorted out their priorities :rolleyes:


In the US, it's easier for someone with mental health issues to buy an AR15 and enough ammo to start WWIII and WWWIV, than a woman to get an abortion.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Not in all States it's not - some States like California have by American standards, the most restrictive gun laws.

When I mentioned above about the "Will of the people" being enshrined in to the Constitution - most of it is the will of the people 200+ years ago, when it was the era of the musket which fired one round of a musket ball (lead ball). Given the high death toll attributed to more modern and fast firing guns in the U.S - makes the second amendment out of date and lethal cultural mistake, IMO.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

And therein lies the problem with the constitution Mick. As the "will of the people" changed over the years so should've the constitution. An odd amendment or two is not enough.

The "will of the people" then and now is different.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Their approach makes sense if you believe you can work together and come to a common arrangement occasionally. Amendments should be hard but possible. It's hard to imagine the United States ever making a new amendment now.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Whose approach?

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

The constitution is not meant to encode the will of the people, in fact it is the opposite, it is suppose to constrain the government and the will of the people in accordance with the designs of the founders and their ideas of a functioning state.

This is a crucial difference between a republic and a pure democracy and why France declares a new republic whenever they throw a temper tantrum (they are on their fifth)

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

America's system where they have these check and balances designed to slow things down past a single election cycle.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

BREAKING: WASHINGTON, May 11 (Reuters) - Legislation to make abortion legal throughout the United States was defeated in the U.S. Senate on Wednesday, amid solid Republican opposition.

Democrats had sought to head off an impending Supreme Court opinion that is expected to overturn the nearly 50-year-old Roe v. Wade decision that established the national right to abortion. Wednesday's effort was a protest gesture that never stood much chance of success.

With 49 votes in support and 51 against, the "Women's Health Protection Act" was 11 short of the 60 votes needed to be fully debated in the 100-member Senate.

All 50 Republicans voted to block the bill. They were joined by one Democrat, Senator Joe Manchin. - Reuters.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Was never going to pass.

Still surprised the filibuster remains, I wonder how the vote would have gone if a simple majority were needed? I.E Joe Manchin voting No is more consequential for him if it's the decided vote on abortion.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

BREAKING: U.S Supreme Court overturns Roe V Wade that gave women right to legalised abortion. More to follow…

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

There isn't a US wide ban on abortion.:rolleyes:
It is now in the hands of the individual states.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Of which half are set to impose bans immediately or the next few days. 25 States is still a big part of a nation.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Link

The Left and Liberals are much too keen on imposing their will on people, regardless of what any electorate think.
The irony is that this decision couldn't arise until somebody decided to challenge restrictions in a particular state.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

BREAKING Missouri becomes first US state to ban abortion after Supreme Court ruling: attorney general - AFP News Agency

And so it begins…

---------- Post added at 16:54 ---------- Previous post was at 16:48 ----------

NEW: Former U.S President Barack Obama condemned the U.S. Supreme Court ending constitutional protection.

---------- Post added at 16:58 ---------- Previous post was at 16:54 ----------

BREAKING: Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton declares that abortion is now illegal in Texas as it becomes the 2nd State to outlaw it straight after Highest Court of the land, reverses R v W.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Can you not see the irony in the right curtailing the freedom of an individual regardless of what decision that individual wishes to make?

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion...n-on-abortion/

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

There's more than one individual involved.
The court can't choose what it's going to rule on. It can only decide on cases brought before it. If State imposed restrictions hadn't been challenged, they couldn't rule either way on the issue.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Most of the recent abortion laws passed in Republican states were specifically designed to be challenged so that this would end up in the Supreme Court.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

And that's in each and every state is it? Or is it yet another instance of certain states trying to impose their will on the others.
Individual states already had certain restrictions and the electorate in those states would seem happy with those allowed by Roe v Wade.

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Return of the backstreet abortionists with the consequent health issues for women. :rolleyes:

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Wonder what rights they'll go after next, can't imagine they're massive fans of gay marriage or contraception

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

There ya go.....

Re: Draft Supreme Court opinion overturning (Roe v Wade) abortion leaked
 

Judge Thomas has already stated that using the same legal thought process, he would want to revisit the Supreme Court rulings that allowed for US wide access to contraception, allowed same-sex relationships and same-sex marriage.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/c...-b2108823.html

There is also an argument that as it's not in the constitution but was a Supreme Court ruling, that 'Loving vs Virginia' could also be reversed at some point, which struck down laws banning inter-racial marriage.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-...rtion-n1296339

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

ffs, was joking, in the land of the free as well, seems like the only thing you're free to do is have a gun :rolleyes:

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

And Mike Pence wants to ensure that all states ban abortion

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...151852518.html

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

The Taliban will wonder if they've got some competition out there for taking a country back to the dark ages!

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

He's still saying that it's up to individual States to decide on the matter.
Too much tacking onto the Constitution of things that were never intended to be allowed, and if they knew in the future these issues would be raised, they more than likely would have explicitly banned them right from the start.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

What is the point in forcing women to give birth to children they don't want :td:

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Or they already knew it happened and didn't want to ban it

https://www.history.com/topics/women...ore-roe-v-wade

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Ok, so this basically means that a woman can still have an abortion up to 15 weeks after becoming pregnant, I'm not trying to be funny here, but how long realistically would a woman know that she is definitely pregnant?
A screening test for Down's syndrome is available between weeks 10 and 14 of pregnancy.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

No - states are moving towards banning of abortion 'from conception'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61804777

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Really? That's not what I'm seeing on the news.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Former U.S Presidential Candidate: Hillary Clinton:

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

So still not a Constitutional right, back then. If it was legal at a federal level, how come States had to pass laws allowing it?



---------- Post added at 18:03 ---------- Previous post was at 17:55 ----------

There is a list of States in the link.
The problem is that the exceptions allowed will end up be so widely defined as to allow abortion on demand. The number of rape and incest cases is going to magically shoot up to match those wanting abortions.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

States, mainly Republican leaning, will ban it in some form or totally ban it outright.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Many states don't have those as exceptions.

Texas doesn't, nor does Oklahoma, Ohio or Kentucky amongst others.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Horrible. Women to be forced to keep pregnancies caused by rape.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

And the effect was to allow abortion on demand, on the bogus grounds of the woman being suicidal. A cleft palate was considered a serious handicap. They always find a way to selectively dodge the law.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

BREAKING: U.S President Joe Biden says U.S Supreme Court decision will jeopardise millions of womens health and blames his predecessor, former president, Donald Trump.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

i have just finished watching the latest series of the Handmaid's Tale and for those who have not watched it, I would recommend it. For the great acting, yes but also for how much closer the US has just become to Gilead.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

We can't have little thing called democracy get in the way of diktat.:rolleyes: You're only allowed to vote or decide the way they demand.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Here are the various Supreme Court nominees lying their way into the job:

US Supreme Court justice promising to not overturn Roe v. Wade (abortion rights) during their appointment hearings

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Well then, he should change it!

It’s quite simple, the law courts do not make legislation they adjudicate on it. Politicians make law, not judges.

All the Supreme Court has done is recognise this anomaly.

I’m not an expert on the US legislative system, but I would think a Federal bill on abortion rights could be brought before the Senate and House of Representatives and be voted on.

That’s democracy isn’t it?

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Of course he does, blaming the "predecessor" is standard policy.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

So what. Shouldn't have been a question in the first place. Not for anybody to unduly bully and interfere with a potential judicial decision, as that question attempts to do.
As I pointed out, "You're only allowed to vote or decide the way they demand".:mad:

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

They can't because although they have a majority you need a super majority in the Senate which the Democrats don't have.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Then watch the squealing when the legislature changes hands.:rolleyes:

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Democrats tried, earlier on but failed in part because of the 50/50 split Senate and the old filibuster chestnut. One Democrat Senator sided with Republicans, so they couldn’t even use Vice President, Kamila Harris to break tie vote

The legislative branch of Government is the bottleneck to real modern day changes required in America.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Well they have to work within the confines of their democratic system and not circumvent it via the courts. Roe v Wade and the actions resulting from that were unconstitutional (which is a big thing in the US)

If they can’t get a federal bill through , then it’s down to state legislature.

Many states will still offer abortions, if your state doesn’t, then lobby the state senate and Governor and /or vote them out.

Again……..democracy.

---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:07 ----------

Understood, but you can’t short cut democracy when it suits, or doesn’t suit.

Look at the blow back here on the ECHR interference with the Rwanda plan.

We will sort that out through our government changing the law, the US has to do the same with the abortion issue.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Silly question, but who gets to determine "modern day changes required"?
"Modern day" science has determined that unborn children can feel pain when pulled apart by the abortion process. Is that an example of "modern day changes required", you were referring to?

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

I've watched all of the episodes, fantastic series.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

It’s probably one of the hardest issues to debate. The rights of the unborn child v the rights of the mother.

I don’t think there is really any “one size fits all” answer.

There are perhaps stages throughout pregnancy that certain decisions can be made.

One thing is certain though it is poor women in states that ban abortion or have shorter deadlines that will suffer. If you can afford to fly to California, it won’t be a problem for you. If you’re poor and live in Texas…..not good.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

The Supreme Court and the Constitution are intentionally designed to guarantee some rights. For a time they had decided that a woman's right to choose was one of them. The debate is if it should be.

I understand you're saying these rights shouldn't circumvent lawmakers by using the court but that's their system. If we want to debate the merits of their democracy, I would also find fault with a system where California's 40 million people get the same level of representation as Wyoming's 500,000 people. A system which means 61% of Americans can support the right to have an abortion but legislation to protect that is never likely to pass because those people aren't distributed across the country. But again, their system.

Personally, I think there should be protection for individual rights beyond a show of hands at any given time. People's fundamental rights should not be taken from them because a majority (or this case, a minority) simply say so. And as long as America recognises this concept of inalienable rights then it's legitimate to question the court on what those rights should be.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

You think they'll try to punish people who leave their state to have one once they return or prosecute clinics in the states that perform the procedures on their citizens?

The vast, vast majority of people there aren't in favour of this but don't let that get in the way of your little rant

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

There have been plenty of decades, before and after Roe v Wade, to change anything.
In each and every individual state? It's about those that are constantly trying to rule by diktat, without the messiness of a ballot box getting in their way.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

100% agree, it would probably require an amendment to the constitution though.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

:tu:

This is the law in Arkansas.

https://twitter.com/NicoleClowneyAR/...49907357167617

This people claim to be protecting life and religiously motivated but the people who wrote that law are not. At least not like any religious person I have ever met. The minds behind this law are sick.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

Like all things, the debate is nuanced. Extremes to either side of the debate are unpalatable.

But the debate needs to be had and a consensus needs to be reached.

That is a democratic and reasonable societal path to take.

If we cannot do that, in this or other matters, then Western democracy is screwed.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

I don't want to keep going on about and beating a dead horse but I think what was the law: that women can choose what they do with their bodies with regard to pregnancy was correct. There isn't really an extreme position there. Like the U.K there was a limit at the point the fetus is considered 'viable', you could maybe debate a few weeks here and there but that isn't central to the issue.

Beyond that, I don't think there should be a debate on someone's rights. You can be against abortion no problem but it's not a belief you should impose on others. I understand that if someone believes that life begins at conception this is an extremely hard thing, you're talking about ending a life, but again I come back to the same argument that you can't force a woman to carry a fetus to term. Although I accept that taking that argument to the extreme means you could have an abortion just before birth.

I am pretty tired and this argument is a bit all over the place. There is also a lot of debate that could be had about the nature of the American democratic system. But for now, it's just a very sad day.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

It’s the ultimate hypocrisy that the same people who are in favour of people being able to have virtually unlimited weapons of death, are the same people imposing a law that prohibits women having a choice with childbirth. Whatever the circumstances.
They are truly twisted.

Re: U.S Supreme Court overturns (Roe v Wade) legalised abortion
 

I am afraid I am pro life. I know as a man I do not have say and I know my opinion will go down like a ton of bricks. I understand cases where there is risk of life and those cases of rape resulting in pregnancy so I am not totally heartless on this matter

In the UK they allow abortion up to 24 weeks a friend of my ex wife gave birth at 22 weeks and the child survived so how can that be right to literally kill a viable person?

Ands lets be honest here the vast majority of unwanted pregnancies that are aborted are down to convenience " I am not ready" or "I just do not want it". That pregnancy is alive the cells are alive in a very short time there is a heartbeat and the potential of that child is unknown and totally lost.

Plenty of people out there want children and can not have them if abortion was harder to get then A the parent could when gone to term find they love the child and B if not they can put them up for adoption.

End of the day if you do not want a child do not have unprotected sex there is no excuse and it is totally irresponsible from both the female and male who makes the choice to not bag up or take the pill

I am sorry not sorry that my opinion will make people angry with me, I have held this opinion all my life and has nothing to do with my faith before some say it is. Abortion is the killing of a potential person will all the possibilities taken away from them