Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If anyone is feeling a little sleepy and wants to experience an upsurge of anger, then check this post and my reply over on BT Beta forums.
http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/me...ID=25763#25763

Please note my willingness to have the post copied. At this rate we should soon have an entire text based transcript of the leaked report on line.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I haven't read all the detail yet but it seems to be a client side plugin. The idea being that a web site owner can specify a set of restrictions on the client side.

An example pertinent to this discussion could be...

A web site owner specifies that clients can only run javascript that is served from the same domain. In the case of the trials where javascript was inserted that made requests to dns.sysip.net, the web site owner could specifically say that the javascript was not allowed to run and the browser would obey that restriction.

At least that is what I am reading into that. I think it's a great idea, although for it to be of any use it really does need the major browser vendors to adopt it by default. Look at what happened to p3p, probably something that would be of interest to most of us here... http://www.w3.org/P3P/. I'm not sure if the idea has been dropped entirely, but it appears to have stalled due to lack of support from the major browser vendors.


"After a successful Last Call, the P3P Working Group decided to publish the P3P 1.1 Specification as a Working Group Note to give P3P 1.1 a provisionally final state.
The P3P Specification Working Group took this step as there was insufficient support from current Browser implementers for the implementation of P3P 1.1."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This is going to be a really simple questions to answer.

How would I know if my surfing experience was being looked at right now.

What are the Tell Tale Traces that someone has implemented PHORM on any network not just Virgin Medias.

Is there a tool? A device or some simple command that tells me somone is not feeding me the pages as I want them but as they want me to see them?

I sat down this morning and just picked up on some string of some Google update in an e-mail. I havent stopped surfing all day looking in to this PHORM thing. I'm trying to be objective, I've contacted Virgin Media support who have told me it's not running but when it does start (or to be fair they said if it does start) I will be given the option to opt out. Having looked at as much detail as I can I'm struggling to see technically how I can opt out.

I've been in Telecomms and ISP business for 19 years now and while I fully understand the very real issues of trying to derive revenues from a market that is slashing it's own throat on price, while trying to build solid performance networks and pay those gents at BT huge Central charges. I never thought I'd see us hawking through the deritas of our customers surfings looking for a few spare pennies.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You might like to get back to them on that, and ask them, didn't they mean "the option to opt-IN"? That is what the ICO kindly very politely suggested that if they really didn't mind, he'd be very grateful if they could do it that way. (Think of the ICO as Mr Barraclough in Porridge, but without Mr Barraclough's overt aggressive tendencies)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

At the moment it is difficult to know for sure. All we have to go on is the technical information they have given out. "IF" what they have said is true then the dephormation firefox plugin should be able to pick up the existence of any webwise cookies that are placed on your machine. Although again "IF" they implement it the way they say they will you should be redirected to an opt in page once they turn it on (or opt out page if they are feeling brave, or is that stupid? ;))

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Lets get /.'ing folks - http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=712283

Vote it up, leave some comments.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:rofl:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It does make me angry when I read the 'tale' written in such an eloquent and readable manner. Excellent post Mr Jones, you have clearly shown some of BT's inconsistencies.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What the hell are the ICO there for to prevent a very unseemly demise of a failing ISP and its failed sidekick or to provide a line where the small person can with ICO help get to the facts of dishonest ISP,s

We vote we pay taxes and in return you get what?

Tarquin

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I wrote to the ICO on Friday. I do not know if today's announcement is in response to my letter or they made the announcement before 'reading' my letter.

The letter was a follow up to the letter they wrote to me on the 30th May. This is the letter where they said

I asked them if they had seen the report on the 2006 trials.
I pointed out to them the folly of BT saying they could not contact me.
I asked them to confirm that they had seen the "legal advice" which BT said they had sought.
I asked them about the 'small scale' quote and asked them to confirm how big a scale the trials would have had to have been in order for them to take action.

Along with a few other questions I stated this:

"May I inform you that I am in full conversation with John Penrose MP and that I am asking EU Commissioner Viviane Reding to investigate this matter, as I believe the ICO is failing in it’s duty to protect personal information.

If I do not receive a satisfactory response I will be forced to not only ask the EU Commission to intervene but also initiate a complaint with the Parliamentary Ombudsman."

The EU and the Parliamentary Ombudsman it is then.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You should all be starting to realise by now the purpose of regulators is not to protect the people from big business but big business from the people while trying their best to give the opposite impression while allowing them to maximise profit and control.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

DEPHORMATION WITHDRAWN

Regret to announce Dephormation site will be taken down later this evening and replaced with a notice demanding the resignation of the Information Commissioner.

This temporary protest will last for 7 days (or until Richard Thomas has resigned). During this period Dephormation will be unavailable to new users.

If you haven't downloaded already, I'd urge you to do so immediately. The software remains copyright and is owned by me. Do not copy or redistribute the software without my consent.

Why am I doing this? Because there is no point me providing software to express a wish to 'opt out' if there are no legal consequences when ISPs flagrantly ignore or even fail to obtain consent from hundreds of thousands of users.

The ICO has brought the IT and communications industry into complete disrepute.

Richard Thomas, please resign now.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just a quick one for the tech bods because I can't get my head around it.

Two weeks prior to the trial, advertising space was bought on non-phorm advertising platforms to do the cookie drop (as it would otherwise have breached BT T&C's).

Does this mean that the cookies would have been dropped into the 3rd party ad host domain?

Does this also mean the ad hosts must have been complicit? (Although I can't think why, they are rivals).

Presumably, then once the trial started, BT/Phorm would need to wait for the user to visit that ad domain again in order to retrieve the cookie and read the UID. Then it could forge cookies into all domains?

Why would this still not breach BT's T&C's?

Or have I got it all wrong?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Pete, did you send a FOI request via writetothem? I can't find anything on there: http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/ico
Just wondering if it has been 'misplaced' or perhaps you wrote directly to Richard Thomarse?