Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Interesting

https://www.choose.co.uk/news/2020/v...and-berkshire/

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

not true, dont believe a word of it

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

?????

Er, it is true.

DOCSIS 3.1 can deliver 10G, each step up will have to be carefully planned and implemented but these upgrades will be on a rolling programme.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

They blab about something like this every few years, usually whenever a competitor beats their last max speed. It's not hard to hit a high number in lab-like conditions, and gives them a cheap headline and a bit of real-world data.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

It’s not “lab Conditions”.

As I have said, the equipment they have is 10G capable. It will be a challenge on various parts of the network, but CIN and RPhy will get us there.

In regards to the 2G, that is quite simply turning up the dial on what is already in place. Once 1G is rolled out nationwide,they are just signposting that 2G is already there.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

I wait for a mind blowing explanation as to how >2gbit speeds were achieved using a router with 1gbit ports.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

The speeds were delivered via the existing cable network using DOCSIS 3.1 broadband technology and the Hub 4. The trial also provided average upload speeds of 214Mbps.

To overcome the issue if the 1G ports they partnered with SamKnows who delevoped a clever little speed tester that will actually run the test within the Hub4. This removed the usual restrictions with the 1Gb Ethernet ports.

This, apparently, is a live feature on the network today and all Hub4 customers can access this via www.samknows.com/realspeed. SamKnows will then accurately run a speed test in accordance to the OFCOM Speed Code and return the results back to the customer in just under 30 secs.

If you’re on the Gig1 service or on the latest Hub4 then You can try it. Hub3 users not yet.

---------- Post added at 21:47 ---------- Previous post was at 21:41 ----------

How’s your mind?

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Why do you think I said "lab-like"?

Easy to choose a part of the network with the right conditions to give you the expected outcomes.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Well it’s not that either, it was done in the field on existing network

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Deflated by a misrepresented bodge job

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Given the 1G limitation this is pointless.

Absolutely stupid to release a new hub where it's day 1 speed tier is higher than it can achieve to any device due to only having 1G ports. A single SFP+ cage would have had minimal costs.

I can't believe that there are many people who would pay for 2.2G broadband that wouldn't also want to use modem mode, so even the multi device argument is out the window.

---------- Post added at 18:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------

The Hub 4 definitely can't, even if you play the "multiple devices in router mode" angle as it doesn't have 10G worth of LAN interfaces total.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Except Arris/Commscope don't do a cable gateway like that. Liberty Global can't install a product that doesn't exist.

https://www.commscope.com/product-ty...teways-modems/

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:38 ----------

At the point the Hub 4 was locked down for its specs, they didn't do a 2.5Gbit Ethernet product either.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

There are plenty of modems a out that at least support link aggregation, which would have been a big improvement.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Arris are one of Liberty Global's technology partners. They made the Hub 3, Hub 4 and the V6 hardware along with other network hardware in both Virgin Media and the wider Liberty Global network.

So it would have been odd to pick another supplier for the Hub 4 based on the existing relationship.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

It’s not a product. 2G won’t be offered for god knows when. It was an exercise to prove that 2G is capable on the HFC network to be rolled when ready.

I wouldn’t expect 2G to be available for a couple of years at least, probably more. More than enough time to for new hardware to rolled out.

Of course it can’t, i don’t understand what you’re getting upset about. 10G when lands could be a decade away.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

I mean, you said "the equipment they have rolled out is 10G capable", when the hub 4 definitely isn't.

I'm not upset, I can't even get Gig1 here in Ipswich yet, and it seems that CityFibre may arrive before Gig1, in which case I'll be jumping ship anyway.

My point was only really that the usual practice for VM, seems to be that a gateway launches with a speed tier that is then significantly upgraded over the course of it's service life. E.g. when the Hub 3.0 launched, the top tier was 200mbit. It seems it will finish it's life delivering 600mbit, a 3x uplift.

I don't think with the port limitations the Hub 4.0 is in any way a suitable device for 3Gbit, a 3x uplift from the launch speed, given that it can't actually deliver the full provisioned speed of it's launch tier over Ethernet.

They may have history with Arris, but even Arris have say the SB8200 which supports link aggregation.

The hub 4.0 is a flawed and short sighted product with a limited shelf life imo.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

That doesn't include the Telco ports required by Liberty Global for their products.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Captain here... People need to stop worrying about CPE. If a 2G+ tier launches then there will be equipment launched to support it. Multi gig is in its infancy and that's mainly due to CPE support, you will struggle to find even a third party device that can handle these speeds especially over wireless. We are doing lots of testing in this field now so no doubt there will be more press releases about speed tiers in the near future :)

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Will be interesting to see what VM do. I feel like there will be a Hub 4.1 or 5.0 much quicker than usual, with some form of multigig, maybe based on the TG9442.

I don't think wireless will be the driver for multigig speeds myself, and there is plenty of kit about that can handle such speeds over a cable. We've had many times in history where cable providers have offered speeds that can only realistically and reliably be maintained over a cable, and even today I'd be surprised if many people managed to achieve 500mbit down on a superhub 3.0 in anything but the same room.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

I am already on the 1Gb service. Indeed the service will test at 1.1Gb using the onboard Samknows test device. It is not designed to deliver that speed to any one device or through any one ethernet port or one wifi connection. It is designed to provide the possibility of using all that available broadband through multiple ports, i.e. two or more speed-hungry devices using two or more 1gb ethernet ports / wifi connections. I guess a 2.2Gb service, if it is a serious proposal, could be fully used the same way.

In reality, only large premises with multiple speed-hungry users, would really need this. Schools and multiple-user business premises already have 10Gb PON connections, with all that bandwidth being delivered through multiple ports.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

This precludes modem mode, I feel like anyone who actually sprung for 2.2gb would be highly likely to be wanting to run their own router/firewall


I'd pay for it if it were available to me, my router has an SFP+ WAN and LAN port (Unifi UDM-Pro) and my two main devices are connected via 10G, so could utilise it on one device.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

The test is likely for two things. First, it probably is for bragging rights. Second. Vm have a large amount of network infrastructure that is likely to remain in service for years. They need to ensure that equipment is able to handle not only their current needs, but their future needs. Tests like this are one way of doing that.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Agreed, except those very same enthusiasts would want to ensure that their router is capable of WAN aggregation and has the necessary WAN to LAN throughput capability. A modem delivering 2.2Gb would have to support aggregation too. I would imagine that any roll out of such a service is a considerable way off, plenty time for VM to consider an appropriate modem and, indeed, for affordable router technology to catch up. The GT-AX11000 has a 2.5Gb ethernet port, so that's not such a big step.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Yes, but this gets back to my point, the Hub 4.0 is of limited life as it doesn't support aggregation or 10GBe.

Personally my router does support 10GBe but not aggregation, although I guess if I had to I could put a 10GBe switch that did aggregation in the middle.

Aggregation is a poor way of doing it vs faster links.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

It depends what you mean by limited life.

It's always the case the the new kit that is released for the top tiers filters down to be standard kit and is replaced for the top tier by new kit.

Happened with all of the SuperHubs and Hub 3. So it will happen with the Hub 4. The only exception that I can remember was the the standalone D3 modem. By the time the lower tiers were put onto D3 then the SuperHub 1 was available (may be misremembering my timelines a bit though)

So the Hub 4 hardware will be around for a while.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

VM won't provide a modem which supports aggregation until they seriously go for a 2.2 or a 1.6Gb service. Right now, my GT-AX11000 delivers 945Mb to me. The full 1.1GB would be nice, using two modem ports instead of one, but VMs calculation is that it isn't worth upgrading to make that small difference. Hub 4 will stay until they see the need.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Just came across this post when looking for something else, appreciate it is getting on a bit and there might have been a more recent post.

The SH4 does support round-robin aggregation and has done pretty much since early on in the lifecycle. I have it running in Modem Only mode (also works in normal mode) with two connections to my router. This allows speeds of up to around 1.15Gbps and for example Steam downloads hitting sustained 140MB/s.

Nice not to be losing ~250Mbps compared to just gigabit :)

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Already Hub 4 dishes out almost 1.2Gb for those on the Oomph deal, but over more than one Gb port at a time. Surely, the principle of sharing 2.2Gb over a number of 1Gb ports is no different than what we have now. Admittedly this is only for larger households with data-hungry users, but surely it is a viable product.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Most users at that speed will want to use it with their own router. Unless you use aggregation of two or more ports then you will only get up to around 930Mbps or so losing out on 200Mbps or ~25% of the actual speed.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

I don't know if you are right about this or not. No matter how techy someone is, unless they have a need for 2.2Gb available bandwidth surely they won't waste their cash on it. To me the most likely customers are a large family with teens etc or a student household. Having said that I wouldn't expect massive take up in the first instance.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Asus have quite a range of routers now with 2.5 and 10gbps ports, and high end motherboards are shipping with similar port mixes.

The Hub4 is a bottleneck. Nobody wants to use Wifi for the desktop gaming PC.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

At the time the Hub 4 was designed, 2.5Gb ports weren't an option from Arris (Commscope). They now have Gateways with a 2.5Gb port on them - although it seems to lose two 1Gb ports to make up for it

https://www.commscope.com/product-ty...modems/tg9452/

Other manufacturers will be doing the same now, so whenever the Hub 5 comes along it will likely have at least one 2.5Gb port on it.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Past 200Mbps you are well in to diminishing returns, plus the bottleneck moves to somewhere else in the network, when you get north of 500Mbps. Most people are probably wasting their money past that point, but in the case of VM you need to go there if you want a better upload speed.

As an example I have discussed some connections that have typical peak usages on 7Gbps on a 10Gbps connection and that's a university network with several thousand users. That peak load is the evening and is down to Netflix ... :D

The Hub 4 used in modem only mode with the right routers isn't a bottleneck as such. Here is my current speedtest on my desktop PC.

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2021/08/3.png

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

I get this or slightly higher with my AX11000. It has the necessary WAN to LAN throughput, but without combining two SHUB 4 ethernet ports, something the hub doesn't facilitate, I cannot achieve over 1Gb. How did you get 116Mbps?

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2021/08/5.png

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

The limitation of a single gigabit port is around 930-945(ish) Mbps depending on the strength of the prevailing wind. :)

The Super Hub 4 (and 3) for that matter do support link round-robin aggregation on 2 or more connections. It is not widely known and seems to be misunderstood which is part of the reason I posted this.

So long as your other router can do this, which I am not sure whether yours can or can't (nice looking router, reminds me of the ship out of The Abyss.) then and assuming the device you are testing on has at least a 2.5Gb NIC then you will be able to use the full bandwidth which is up to 1.2Gbps on VM.

For reference, I am using a Mikrotik CCR1009-7G-1C-1S+ with a 10Gb link to the rest of my network and the test PC has a 10Gb NIC too.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

The AX11000 will handle port aggregation / dual WAN and has a 2.5Gb port. I guess all I would need is a 10Gb NIC for my main PC, but I'm not about to invest in the Mikrotik CCR1009-7G-1C-1S+ .

I'll let you know if it works out.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Sorry wasn't suggesting you should buy the Mikrotik just referencing it as an example.

Are you running the Merlin custom firmware on yours as not sure the stock router will do what needs to be done?

Having a quick look at the manual, the WAN port is the 2.5Gb port so not sure if you could actually use that downstream to your desktop PC.

Link Aggregation appears to only work on ports 1 and 2 and then is 802.3ad which if I remember correctly didn't work with the SH when I last tried. Only round robin worked when I last tested it setting it up. I know a few others found the same issue.

Dual WAN won't give what you need in this case.

Therefore unless the Merlin firmware offers more configuration am not convinced if it will work to give the higher speeds.

You would need to have something upstream of your modem between the SH and the modem but then you start getting potential more NATing etc. Somebody was going to try a managed switch but haven't heard back if that worked or not.

You could try configuring it anyway without upgrading the NIC. I don't know if it is my imagination but one thing to note is that the SH4 seems to take longer to establish the connection this way. E.g. reboot takes several minutes before Internet is back.

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 ----------

Here a couple of links (hope that is allowed) about it for more reading, didn't realise I got it working so long ago as it was Jan 2020...

https://forums.servethehome.com/inde...dia-isp.26354/

and also a nice article written up by a fellow forum member on another site.

https://tech.msh100.uk/virgin/networ...ter-than-gbit/

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

You don't need the server grade Mikrotik routerboard. I use a RB4011iGS+RM with all four Virgin hub LAN ports bonded together using balance-rr.

It has a choice of RJ45 GigE or 10GBe SFP+ outputs depending on your requirements. 1145Mbps out from Virgin on the 10GBe side.

Rock solid performer, has been up 24/7 all year and no issues whatsoever in the comms cupboard.

Attachment 29195

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Yep don't disagree with you there, I looked at the RB4011 as the option to start with, think it is even mentioned on the link I put. I did however want some of the features that were present on the one I went with in the end. Both very nice and stable as you say.

Unlike the SH4 which only just had its password masked and router stats fail after a bit and thinks it is not connected to the Internet :)

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Tested up to 8gig in Cambridgeshire a few years back. Was fibre though

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Thanks. It doesn't look hopeful, unless I am prepared to invest a lot of time.

I wasn't taking the Mikrotik as a recommendation. Any additional kit will cost me and I don't want to spend more cash on something that only gets me just over an extra 100Mb bandwidth. :D (Remembering when we used to be grateful for an extra Mb)

The 2.5Gb port can be used downstream if I were to need it. I use the standard firmware atm, but would change to Merlin if I saw an advantage.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Luxury, I remember when we used to live in ole in road, get up 30 minutes before we went to bed ... ;)

I had VM's first digital service at 512Kb but that was such a jump compared to dial up.

The thing that annoyed me is that the Gig One syncs at nearly 1.2Gbps and with the speed tests I get now are 22% quicker than just one gigabit connection to the SH.

Why they couldn't just put a 2.5Gb port on the SH4, the cost difference would not have been that much and it would have future proofed them for when the 2.2Gbps service rolls out.

Having said that I do think we are getting to the point of silly speeds for home usage, and for the majority of the time 200Mbps would be sufficient for a regular size family.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

For whatever reason Liberty Global will only buy modems from Arris these days (and seemingly only horrible puma chipset ones) and at the time of the SH4 there was no modem with a 2.5G port.

Personally I think they should ideally have SFP+, but even better would be for VM to allow people to use their own modems like US cable ISPs do.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

I remember looking at the time and there were 2.5Gbps Arris ones available from Germany. However, given the lead time on rebranding them and ordering process etc plus additional cost then LG probably wouldn't have bothered.

I am still half tempted to try and import one, but confirming that cloning the MAC would work as well as T&Cs is still prohibitive.

Same they don't do a business version that consumer could upgrade to which as you say could include SFP+ and solve all the problems easily for those that would pay a little bit more on a one off cost.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

will the hub 4 still do port aggregation on ports 1 and 2 when in modem mode?

If so the this may help roughbeast:
https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1039053/

regards

John

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Yes, it works in modem mode. I think *only* in modem mode, but it's not 802.3ad, it's just round robin, so won't work with Roughbeast's Asus router.

You need a proper router like a mikrotik not a consumer grade one for RR support.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Just cloning the MAC wouldn’t work, as the CMTS knows to only accept the correct type of modem, it’s not done at MAC level. It also quite often sends a software/firmware update down to the modem. I imagine there would be a lot of cost involved in supporting every cable modem on the market, for not much uptake. 99.9% of consumers want minimal fuss on their part.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

I mean, US cable companies manage it. I assume they leave it up to customers to do updates. They do authorise modems by MAC.

Your logic is the same as ADSL/VDSL ISPs used to use to say people couldn't be trusted to use their own modem or router - think of the support effort!

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Unfortunately it doesn’t appear to support 802.3ad link aggregation

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

That's only because the FCC legislation has forced them to. And it's not as straightforward over there anyway

https://uk.pcmag.com/networking/1338...-from-your-isp
And even where they do, they will still have require certain specs for the 3rd party kit.

In the UK there isn't the same legislation or cable modem market.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

The US has allowed people to use their own modem for as long as I can remember, certainly back before VM even released the SH1.

There was a new law in 2020 that forbid them for charging modem rental fees on a modem you own ( https://www.engadget.com/tvpa-bans-i...213955005.html ) but prior to this people were still able to use their own.

Back in 2012 the replies here were discussing it: https://superuser.com/questions/4444...ernet-provider

It's not something that's only appeared over there since the TVPA act came in.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

I didn't say it was a new thing. But it's forced by US regulation that doesn't exist here and was originally aimed for cable TV:

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...11201&rgn=div8

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

The situation in the US is quite different. Cable companies have much larger subscriber bases there, and they frequently add on lots of extra charges and fees, as well as complicated tax rules making the final bill very opaque.

Virgin Media has never charged a monthly fee for a specific piece of equipment, so I don't think there is as much need for regulation here.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Would a phone line be classed as a specific piece of equipment?

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Not sure how it would that’s used to provide a service. If they provided a phone as well then that would be equipment.

All the models I have seen so far don’t have a VoIP port anyway so phone line would no longer work :(

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Definitely!

My brother-in-law lives in Connecticut (and has for 10 years), and has just bought a place in Hampshire (he’s retiring next year, and coming home), and he’s paying VM half of what he pays his US Telco/Cable company.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

But will get a lot less:rolleyes: I suspect

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

You would suspect wrongly - he gets faster broadband, and he doesn't subscribe to Films in either country, and he says the channel choice is fine by him (he says a lot of the choice in the USA is just re-runs).

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Didn't say it wouldn't work for him . I am on 100 meg was very happy with 50 . And reruns was surprised how many l hadn't seen before ! Let's face it virgin etc also have no end of channels showing reruns . But great that he as am l happy with the choice :D

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Much like the UK then.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Yup, but I think itshim’ s point was that there is a much wider choice of re-runs on US cable TV… ;)

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

:D

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Just a thought not a dig at anyone. When is a repeat not a "repeat" , when you/ me have not seen it before. In my case. ,"how to get away with murder" and " peaky blinders" both repeated on Netflix but NEW to me. So perhaps channels with repeats are not so bad.:dozey:

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

I do think it is very good that you can turn the tv on at pretty much any time during the day and be blessed with the wisdom of Judge Judy.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

Don't you mean 'Very bad' ?

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

I think Judge Judy should be supreme Judge of the world.

Re: Virgin testing 2.2 Gbps
 

She falls into my b*****cks TV category.