SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

hi all ,

my shub3 rebooted last night and since then my tbb bqm graph is a lot better. Is there an actual fix for this issue that virgin have rolled out or is this new firmware just masking the issue and making the graph look 'pretty' for most users .

TIA

adz161

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/02/4.png

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I see this also:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/02/6.png

Ran a ping test form here: http://ping-test.net/ and seems much better:

1;"Ping Test: NL - Amsterdam";"30";"29";"25";"27";"27";"25";"27";"25" ;"26";"30";"28";"30";"27";"23";"26";"25";"24";"25" ;"33";"27";"24";"30";"31";"26";"26";"25";"26";"24" ;"24";"26";

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Same here, after a re-boot on Monday ;

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/02/7.png

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Just so we all understand what has happened to the Hub 3, the code that handles ICMP packets (the BQM pings) has been shifted from the CPU (Puma 6) to one of the comms chips. At least that's my understanding. It makes the BQM look wonderful and does release the CPU to some extent to process the other protocols. However the periodic housekeeping interrupt still occurs. It could be classed as a cosmetic measure.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

In case it's any use:

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Ah. The VW fix. :D

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

What is this "periodic housekeeping interrupt" that for me keeps occurring about every 80-100mins? It seemed to disappear throughout today but has popped up again. Is it now happening less often?

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

It is the basic flaw of the Puma 6 and occurs every 20 to 30 seconds. The processor interrupts whatever protocol stuff it is doing in order to clear itself down having got too much to do and too little resource with which to do it.

The Puma 6 CPU is the Intel Atom 4100; a single core processor running at 1.4GHz. You couldn't get a cheaper version of Puma 6. And only single core. Displacement of the ICMP processing to the comms chip slightly improves the Puma 6's real data processing bandwidth but not to any significant extent.

The BQM is, to my mind, a false positive.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

But .... it looks better :D

TBH, aside from the pings issue, I cannot say Ive really noticed any issues using the HUB3, my upload and download speeds have always been fine.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

yeah, and I play fast paced fps every day and never have a problem



I have just had a look at the shub config to make sure nothing else untowards has happened and it looks like they have finally fixed some other stuff as well. A second table has been added in the downstream tab showing your pre and post-rs errors for each channel and in the upstream tab a second table has been added to show your T1, 2 3 and 4 timeouts for each channel. How long has it taken them?

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Did the power levels get taken away, Mon General?

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

nope, they are still there and a second table has been added for the rs errors. You will note that the scroll bar is on the second half of the page. It is similar to the upstream screen shot you can see, it just can't all fit on one screen.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

That is my take on this as well.

Our USA cousin's still have a Class Acttion lawsuit ongoing as far as I know against "Pumagate". Intel have done themselves no favours recently.
Hopefully the next gen cable modems will go back to Broadcom ?

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

You guys maybe on the firmware trial as people are reporting that they never signed up for it but still got it.

---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------

My Puma 6 test now looks normal on a wired pc compared to all the red before, although doing the same test via wifi on my android phone produces 100%
red so not sure what is happening there?

---------- Post added at 23:17 ---------- Previous post was at 23:16 ----------

http://www.dslreports.com/tools/puma6

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I havent signed up for anything. I wonder if they are in a second phase of testing. They have tested router mode shub on peeps and now they need to test it in modem mode with proper routers. They havent bothered asking because they know the type of people who buy quality stuff will say no.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Just noticed that this is under the 350mbit label. Is the move to 24 downstream channels etc that are being discussed different than the changes I have noticed on my 200mbit?

I did notice the change on my BQ monitor with most of the yellow being wiped out a couple of days ago and the additional channels/pages now showing on my hub3.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Yes it is under the wrong label as the reduction in yellow appears to be on all tiers, i am on 150mbit.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

From being on the VM Forums, the updated firmware was rolled out to Trialist's first and then to general release, apparently by post code ?
I use Modem mode for any hubs I've been supplied with and was picked for the early trial of this firmware. However it was in general release fairly quickly afterwards.
As I'm not a great gamer I can't say I've noticed any difference, apart from the already noted change to the GUI stats.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Big improvement here as well regarding my TBB BQM.

Another difference i noticed was on my SamKnows WhiteBox.On the same day as the hub/reboot/firmware upgrade my latency also dropped from a constant 27.7ms and it has now been sitting at a constant 19.9ms since the reboot.

A couple of users were saying that this change was only to make the TBB BQM look better to the eye LOL but i'm happy to report that there has definitely been a drop in my latency since the hub firmware upgrade according to my whitebox.

Now of course this drop is only in ms so of course i'v not really noticed the difference in everyday use of my net connection here but a drop is a drop so all good :)

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I signed up for it, but they never got back to me. :smokin:

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Same with me

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Awh I did sign up for a trail of something from VM. Is there a way to find out what FW i am on now in the SHUB 3 ?

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

They never got back to me either after the signup, you will know if you're in the trial if you can access the trial forum page on their forum.

---------- Post added at 18:31 ---------- Previous post was at 18:29 ----------


Login to your hub and the firmware number will be displayed but i cant remember where and i am currently in work.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

It's in ADMIN/INFO

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

i forgot to add my BQM ;)

Before firmware upgrade:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/02/11.png

After firmware upgrade:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/02/12.png

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Checked today and Im on 9.1.116.603

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

9.1.116V Thats my version

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Same here, see if you have access to the trials forum.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Apparently I do, they just neglected to tell me. :dozey:

This is a different remote monitor, pinging my hub, the graph is about the last 8 days.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1518834931

It clearly shows the change between the 12th & 13th Feb.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I've been reading the Trial Forum posts each day and have to admit to not really understanding half the comments.

I guess I have been put on the trial as the token elderly, nongeek VM bb 'out of the box' hub3 user.

So far the only things that I have noticed is the tbb monitor looking a lot less yellow. Ping and speed test results have not changed, wifi remains good and connection solid.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Yeah they never told me either, I just noticed I had access to the trial forum, then checked firmware version to see it had been updated.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Same, didn't notify me I was part of the trial. Not sure what I'm even supposed to be doing as they haven't said anything.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Same here, I went and looked as I can see the trial access forums part. No FW update nor no email from them. :eh:

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Does this update improve the wifi?

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

If you can access the trials forum then you need to let them know you didn't get the firmware drop as a few missed out.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Ta and I just literacy just posted on there asking/update etc

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Got the firmware then the next day everyone not on the trial seemed to be getting it anyway, so not sure what the point in the "trial" was....

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Yes it was strange that a few days after the trial started most people seemed to get given it.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

To placate people and paint a lovely TBB monitor.
IMHO the underlying chipset cannot be fixed by a firmware update.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Here's what I posted in the VM Forum:

1/
The PUMA 6 CPU is of low spec (single core) and is thus heavily utilised because all of the traffic on a segment hits it and is filtered through by your own security key generated when the modem is switched on.

2/
The processor and associated memory is so overloaded that every 20 to 30 seconds it does an emergency interrupt to clear its cache and so on. This will stop some games in their tracks.

3/
Every second, the TBB BQM system, for those subscribing, makes an ICMP call (you can Google that) to your router. This call has to be handled hitherto by the Puma 6 chip.

4/
The yellow portion of the graph is very misleading. It is a maximum latency measure. So that in any 30 second period, you might get 25 of those ICMP pings being serviced in around 10 to 20 milliseconds; when the Puma 6 chip interrupts, the ping round trip time rises and it is this maximum that is recorded in the BQM as the yellow area. The blue average area remains relatively unpurturbed.

5/
The new firmware displaces processing of ICMP packets from the Puma 6 into the AR9382 chip. A clever dodge which shows a nice BQM graph, but isn't even the tip of the iceberg when it comes to load that remains on the Puma 6.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

What are people saying about their gaming experience on the new firmware?

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Surprisingly little. They appear fixated on the BQM! At least that's my reading.

Anyway, a PRO comment is at post http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...3653927#M40407

And a NAY comment: http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/...3650922#M40236

And that's about it. Rest is a sideshow (dozens of posts).

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

My pings definitely lower but i don't game much so i never really had an issue with the Hub3.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

As I said, what they've fixed is useless because in the real world people don't do pings except to make false deductions on the state of their circuit/hub.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I hope they have a Hub4 modem in the pipeline that doesn't have this issue and i can get on a trial.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

For what my opinion is worth, the Hub 3 stays unless a legal surprise occurs. The cost of replacing a million Hub 3s or whatever is beyond VM's means.

The next hub would be for DOCSIS 3.1.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

They wont replace a million hubs, just the 1% who notice this issue would need replaced to begin with

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

And then the bandwagon rolls.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I would think that the vast majority of VM BB users have no idea what a Hub3 is.

They just know they have a black box that provides their internet, and it seems to work just fine.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Apart from the wireless dropping upstairs everytime u break wind. Thats why i bought my own router.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

there wasn't an issue before and the new firmware makes no difference either way and nor should it given the technical explanation which has been provided.

and like previous shubs, it will come with a whole host of problems which we'll wait 2 years and numerous updates for them to fix.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

So true, i never had an issue with the Hub3 other than the TBB looking rather yellow.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I’ve got numerous Consoles, Laptops, Smart Speakers and a NAS // Plex Server connected to my Hub3 and they run faultless... I get pretty good Wi-Fi range aswell! :angel:

(I disconnected my Netgear R7800 // Linksys WRT3200acm because they were a waste of electricity when the Hub3 does exactly the same job!) :angel:

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

The majority of 'normal' users won't have an issue with the Hub3 it does its intended purpose to get them on the internet wired/wireless, it is just users that want to play around with network settings or increase the wireless range that are not happy with it, although some gamers have said they have issue with it but other gamers say it is fine but that is the case for most ISP provided kit in my opinion.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

My SH3 is awful at wireless. If one of us eats beans and lets rip the wireless dies on its backside.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I'd be shocked of the Hub 4.0 isn't DOCSIS3.1 and I'd be even more shocked if that didn't cause it to have even more problems than usual, even before the 3.1 upgrades to the network are deployed.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I slightly disagree. I agree that that is pretty much the current state of affairs atm (which is ok) but it wasn't when it came out. Remember they had those hourly disconnects if you were connected to a certain brand of UBR?

yup. The most frustrating thing for me though is the stinky attitude. I am very laid back and forgiving if something is a genuine mistake or happened by accident however VM seem to make bad decisions on purpose and their approach is money first and customers second. They make each shub on the cheap, do laughable trials, ignore errors/bugs/feedback and then send it out to the general customer base knowing it doesn't do what it needs to, sometimes even as a necessity, and if your connection doesn't work then who cares. I hate being screwed over and I would have switched isp years ago out of principle, the only saving grace is modem mode. I can't be doing with uncertainty and sitting down for a game thinking "am I going to get through this or is my shub going to have a spazz fit and my connection drop?"

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I remember the Superhub 1 didn't even have a modem mode when it first came out and they only put it in when loads of customers complained.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

What is the best arris gateway at the moment, probably will be based on that

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

9.1.116V That is still my version too, even after a reboot.

Are we clear on this? Is 9.1.116.603 a trial firmware or is it being rolled out?

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Virgin are currently piloting a new version of firmware for the Hub 3 with a small group of customers.

Virgin are also running a trial related to this.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

yup, and that is why I insisted on keeping my ambit 300 all the way up to 152mbits. I was forced onto a shub2 (which I was expecting and didn't mind) when I upgraded to 200mbits.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

James_W on the VM Community Forum said it was trial firmware - in an enigmatic way!

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I heard some people that are not on the trial have it on the VM forums.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I’ve got the latest hub3 firmware and was in modem-mode when it downloaded! :)

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Yeah loads of "normal" customers (not on the trial) seem to have got it too, wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't intended and someone at Virgin messed up with the MACs they sent the trial firmware to.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Yeah, i have never been on a trial for anything and i have got it.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Phaps they were used to using windows instead of MACS ;).

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Ah so that explains why i have triangular shaped ears .... oops:

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Bah, walked into that one haha

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Martin_D has actually cleared up why this is:

There's two separate test groups - those that opted in and those that are piloting it.

And those that opted in but still haven't got it (i.e. me).

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

They finally sent out the email yesterday telling the trial people they are on the new firmware, only a week or so after it dropped.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

i thought they had dropped one i could smell it!

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Any news on an update for the CGNV4?

I've had a pre-emptive outage notification sent to me recently from VMB - for an hour in the morning early in March and wondered if it was related (not that it's a proper fix to the problem!).

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

The March date you have been given is likely to roll out the firmware to help correct the poor performance with static IP addressing on the VMB network. Following the successful trial they are rolling it out in batches to all business customers with the Hitron box. The new version is 4.5.10.173-UPC

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Looks like I'm on the .603 firmware too. At first sign the pings are lower. Not bad.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

I am still waiting for mine to be pushed for the .603 :/

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

If you're on the trial have you told them on the forum you didn't get it?

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Yep, I only found out a week ago and I have poked them a few times and told them enough times on there. I have restored the default setting on the SHUB3 and powered down/up just encase it was pushed and I needed to reset the SHUB3 to take affect. However still no joy!

I think what annoys me more so is that the people who didn't sign up to the testing has got the new FW and is commenting on it and yet there is a NDA in place sort of thing.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

NDA only applies to those on a trial. It has been said a limited general release has been pushed out which will not be covered by an NDA.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

ya, so I can say whatever I want such as this is what it should have been like from the get go and the fact they have finally fixed stuff makes me think this is the final update before shub4 comes out in preparation for docsis3.1

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

So it was update night last night.
New FW is indeed 4.5.10.173-UPC - but from initial glances it certainly looks like it's also resolved/masked (which is the better word?!) the Puma issue. I only have the dynamic IP option so I can't comment on if the static fix works.

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/03/1.png

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

where would you look to find out if you have the new firmware?

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

http://192.168.100.1/?device_status&mid=Info - Modem Mode

http://192.168.0.1/?device_status&mid=Info - Router Mode

*You will need to login to see this page

Attachment 27331

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Thanks

---------- Post added at 17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------

This is my version : 9.1.116V so I don't have the update, but the weird thing is, it says that I have no connected devices?? I have my IPhone connected and so does my wife and my daughter, I also have three V6 boxes connected, anyone understand why this should be? Thx.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

No takers?

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

shit router that can't provide basic features

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

ISPs are never going to provide anything much more than basic home network facilities. They don't want to get involved in troubleshooting problems with VPN, USB applications, media servers, AiProtection etc.

All we want is an excellent modem with essential network facilities. Those, like me who want more, just want to maintain the modem only option so we can get ourselves a proper router.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Liberty Global set to launch its first Docsis 3.1-capable gateway in germany as part of its Gigaworld

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/05/1.png

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

cool, I am sure VM said they were planning to do the same this year in one of their powerpoint presentations back in 2016.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

They need new headroom to offer those "free" speed upgrades ;)

Still very interesting though.

Re: SHUB3 Puma Bug - TBB BQM Improvement
 

Definitely interesting and likely a sign of the gateway we'll get eventually.