Re: Coronavirus
 

641 - 8th October

462 - 30th September

So an increase of 28%, but an increase all the same, but compared to the peak figure

3,564 - 1st April, only 18% of peak.

Nightingale hospitals on standby?

8th October - 436 on ventilators.

10th April - 3,301 on ventilators. Bearing in mind that during the peak we didn’t out weigh ventilator capacity, so we still have at the very least 7.5 x capacity we are currently using.

Covid patients in hospital 9th October- 3,788

Covid patients in hospital at peak - 21,209 = 5.5 x capacity being used, considering we didn’t use the nightingales, putting them on “standby“ helps fuel a narrative.

Oh and the last one deaths.

Still well below 100, not been above 100 Since July.

The data is there for all.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/healthcare


I’ll wait another week. See what happens.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Following the science in the same way that the car in front is a Toyota and we're on a side road.
This is the most worrying bit to me:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54518002

Re: Coronavirus
 

You can have as many hospitals, beds and ventilators as you like. If you don't have enough ITU nurses its pointless. A ventilator needs a trained nurse 24/7.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And you have evidence that we don’t have enough? Has the number of such nurses dropped dramatically in the last 6 months? We had enough then and we’re nowhere those levels......

Re: Coronavirus
 

The evidence that we were begging for staff to come out of retirement to help. We can't rely on that forever, its going to take more than a bit of a clap.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I guess I'm curious, when would Pierre intervene? If we accept that the figures are going up and intervention is inevitable, what is the benefit of delay?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Futility of lockdowns?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah, so if it’s deciding to never intervene we know how flawed that idea is it’s unworthy of further comment.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I would follow the government’s own advice, when “ the NHS is in danger of being overwhelmed”.

Which it isn’t even close to at the moment.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What figures would you attribute to that level? Would you factor in projected rise in growth or just wait til the last bed was full? If you did factor in projected growth what would you take into consideration?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just how long are you planning to live in the cupboard under the stairs hiding away, are you pre programmed to live in fear or is something that has developed recently,when was the last time you felt the sun on your face or fresh crisp air in your lungs.

Re: Coronavirus
 

:tu:

Re: Coronavirus
 

A couple of weeks ago when I went on holiday. :)

Don’t get much sunshine or fresh air where I live.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We do need to take care with this virus and it's those who are really not taking care that need to brought to book. Those holding large parties and the like. They do get caught and fined but by that point it's likely the damage has been done.

But there is the issue of paying for all of this. Large tax rises that the really wealthy will avoid and the really poor can't pay so it's left to the middle (probably most of those on here) to pick up the tab. There is talk of end to free banking with interest rates possibly going below zero. More cost. But what is the alternative?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The number of Covid inpatients at our local hospital went from 51 at 8am on Friday to 67 at 8am yesterday (Monday). End of August there were 4 inpatients.

Whilst I worry about the impact on the economy I think more needs to be done to stop the spread. I'd be interested to know from those that want the country to throw caution to the wind, what would you choose - a lower standard of living or be dead and have no standard of living?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Your way or dead let me have a think about it :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Your way is better how?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't actually have a way,i would not presume to make people bend to my will. especially when the choice is a poor standard of living or dead.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Problem is that there is often a 2 to 3 week lag between initial infection and admittance to hospital - waiting until the NHS is in danger of being overwhelmed is like only applying your car brakes when you are 5 feet from the car in front.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes but you can wait until the NHS is projected to be under load. There is now masses of data so this should be possible.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think you are both saying the same thing and that preparing the Nightingale sites in areas currently experiencing rising hospital/ICU intakes due high Covis-19 shows that the government /NHS are trying to react to the projected figures.

I just hope that those who can't see what could happen have had their brakes serviced.

Re: Coronavirus
 

This is fair but I'm not sure we are even reaching saturation. Last time a thousand people were dying a day and I was told that most of the nightingale hospitals were completely empty. think yesterday it was 50.

I feel I have no clue what is going on any more.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I wonder how many of those deaths were assisted by lack of health care since the nhs closed it's doors in march.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Easy enough to check, the ONS publishes figures for deaths in England and Wales and separates out COVID in respiratory causes of death. If you subtract COVID registrations, we are around the 5 year average week by week this year. Some weeks up, some weeks down.

Fill your boots here - https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...5september2020

Excel download at the bottom...

Re: Coronavirus
 

For what it’s worth, and in fairness, I do think Pierre is making a very good point. However we don’t have the confidence a) that we are quickly finding cases or b) that test, trace, isolate is finding contacts.

Without this you end up stuck modelling growth - which is unfortunately inevitable without the above. We can introduce these measures now, or in two weeks, or in four. All we will have to show for it is more ill people and more deaths. It won’t save the economy, it’s only likely that the restriction phase will run for a longer period of time before we enter a phase of reduced restrictions.

Whitty and Vallance are already on record saying we are likely to cycle in and out for months to come. The question isn’t the merits of the restrictions, it’s the merits of delay. If we are going to keep restrictions until test, trace, isolate gets under control and figures drop to 5,000 a day or so it’s better to start now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So they haven't been following the science over the last few weeks and cases have spiralled. From here on in the Govt is solely responsible.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't know what the rules are any more and quite honestly i no longer care,bugger all is working and the forecast is doom death and disaster,i'm going to put some beer in the fridge and put my tin foil hat on.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I belong to a several forums where people are waiting for major surgery, life changing surgery which is unfortunately designated as Elective. Along with many other people waiting for many other forms of elective surgery my friend's surgeries where put on hold because of lack of beds, resourses and staff due to the concentrated efforts needed to cope with hospitalisation of Covid-19 patients. These people in my area have been waiting for their operations since March and have been informed that it will be at least next Spring before their surgeons lists will be re-opened as beds have to be kept free for emergency cases.

Our Nightingale in Manchester is now being prepared and hopefully if this is used as more than just an overflow area it may allow some of the routine operations to go ahead.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Today, the local press are stating that our area has:

1) A large drop in the number of positive cases reported.
2) An increase in those hospitalised with (not due to) the virus.
3) Getting nearer to the level 2 of lockdown due to a rise in cases (see 1 )

I've now traded in the tin foil hat for a shotgun, and will be going press reporter hunting . . when I find which school they attend :dozey:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hospitals in Grimsby, Scunthorpe and Goole are currently treating 27 people for covid across all three sites - a rise of six inpatients in four days.
Two of the people currently being treated are in intensive care units, although it has not been confirmed whether they are using ventilators.

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/n...spital-4601474



The next thing to happen will be a fake food shortage just to ramp up the panic, followed by full lockdown then the vague promise of being allowed some kind of reduced xmas celebration.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is a geographical element to all of this too though - the FT is reporting that Liverpool's intensive care hospitals there are 95% full. Looks like the nearest Nightingale (Manchester) can't open soon enough.
https://www.ft.com/content/53272e22-...4-004d0328fdfa

Re: Coronavirus
 

We need to take the Swedish approach. Raise public expenditure to nearly 50% of GDP and invest in infrastructure. Raise effective tax rates for the most well off. Raise capital gains tax. 14 days sick pay for all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They cannot be blamed for the nut jobs just ignoring the advice, and all those hugging etc etc when leaving the pubs and heading to house parties.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Do any of these tax rises affect you?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Here we go, lets tax the rich & spend, spend, spend ..... the 1970's are calling you.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Very likely, yes.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Life on Mars. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

You can only “save” yourself into further recession with further austerity. GDP is as much about how quickly you move money around an economy, rather than how much you’ve got in it.

Anyway, I was simply pointing out that Sweden, high on the world happiness index, has some different social attitudes from the “freedom loving” UK.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Is the solution a higher basic rate tax for everyone, increased VAT or more borrowing?
Being slightly more efficient won't pay off the massive tax burden BoJo's government has bestowed on the country.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah, the social contract in Sweden is very strong compared to the UK. The whole Sweden didn't lock down thing is a bit of a myth - the government asked people to be careful and everyone locked themselves down if they could. Our site in Sweden pretty much closed down in March for office staff and everyone has worked from home since apart from manufacturing. No one complained, people saw it as their duty to stop the disease spreading.

They pay a lot in tax but get a lot in return

Re: Coronavirus
 

Newsflash - Sir Keir is asking the government to introduce a circuit breaker of up to three weeks, in line with the SAGE advice.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...kdown-12103329

Re: Coronavirus
 

The bold Kier with a policy proposal. Just not the one some were hoping for...

Re: Coronavirus
 

A circuit breaker in areas that have very low or no infections, that's a great idea.:rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Keeps them lower. Stops those migrating from lockdown areas to for a day by the seaside and a pint.

The more I think about this it's a stroke of genius for Keir. A second national lockdown is near inevitable, with the CMO saying Tier 3 won't be enough in all instances. Boris hasn't ruled out a second national lockdown - so if/when we get there - and the science says we would have less deaths had we done so one week/two weeks earlier, Keir is laughing all the way to the next election.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Still don't agree, a day by the seaside in October doesn't really appeal, as far as a pint goes, well, they could venture to the central belt in Scotland but be seriously disappointed....:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'd go to the sea for a pint under these restrictions :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Saltcoats? :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

I live at the seaside and i'll be having a couple of beers tonight[out of the fridge];)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good man.....:beer:

Re: Coronavirus
 

A national lockdown explicitly pits Boris against members of his own party who are against further restrictions and aligns him with the Opposition. It makes it harder for him to get a lock down accepted in his own party whilst at the same time his scientific advisers will probably gain confidence in advocating one again. Great move.

---------- Post added at 18:31 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

I understand Cumbria has issued warnings for fans venturing across the border to see the Old Firm Derby in a pub - the rule of six applies. That's probably a luxury compared to drinking outside in rather fresh air and no screens.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Thanks Kier, we tried that already.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If it's such a good idea, why haven't Labour-run Wales tried it?

Re: Coronavirus
 

You can't implement a GB- or UK-wide scheme if you only run Wales. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

starmer only suggested it for England. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Or indeed have the fiscal powers to fund it.

Wales are suggesting closing the border though. That should get unionists foaming at the mouth.

Re: Coronavirus
 

IIRC They've already locked down 60% of Wales.
Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bestowed at the request of everyone who wanted (still wants) lock downs.

Whoever was in power would have had the same burden, Labour would likely have spent even more, with any even bigger resulting debt.

Re: Coronavirus
 

No generation of politicians until this one has ever considered debt a problem.

Despite record low interest rates meaning the cost of the debt is virtually zero, especially compared to the 80s and 90s, and in actual fact the real terms amounts of debt frequently being eroded by inflation.

There’s never been a better time to borrow and invest.

It’s a political choice to erode the role and purpose of the state. Nothing more and nothing less. It’s got no basis in any economic theory for promoting growth.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's the scientists. Best to follow their advance than internet warriors.

We're suffering a stuffed economy and a high infection rate due largely to poor track and trace. That's a government failing, not an inevitability.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Of course they have, I can remember endless talk about it on the news in previous decades.
I can even remember the government (labour, Callaghan) having to be bailed out by the IMF.

Re: Coronavirus
 

£10bn on that failed system too!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good grief, what utter nonsense, what planet are you on ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Didn’t stop any Government before 2010 spending or have them “balancing the books”. Tory governments don’t have a record of running budget surpluses - even when they sold off all meaningful state assets.

Re: Coronavirus
 

LOL, your just making this up as you go along.


Anyway, it all has very little to do with the topic, so lets get back to the subject at hand.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You're the only person who took Boris at his word when he said "world-leading track and trace".

Re: Coronavirus
 

Still on that other planet I see. I never said any such thing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Whatever happened to the 17.5 million antibody tests?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52140376

Or the 20 minute tests from May?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ed-nationwide/

I’m being serious before anyone says I’m not. Was the tech flawed? Did contractors not deliver?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes, but he wants that to coincide with half term so as not to disrupt the education of our children.

Someone needs to tell Sir Kier that half term only lasts one week.

It’s not easy for boring man to come up with a policy proposal that works. Next he’ll be suggesting we all do what jfman does and hide away in that cupboard under the stairs for two years. That’ll show that pesky virus who’s in charge. Until it comes back and bites him in the bum when he declares lockdown is over and the virus is defeated. Because it won’t be.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Another day, another attempt by Old Boy to insult people with genuine concerns over the virus.

Not a single country in the world - or even an opportunistic leader of the opposition - considers your proposals to have any credibility at all. On any other topic posting your persistently inaccurate predictions, wishful thinking and now verging on insults would be considered petty trolling.

Other countries have made varying degrees success with their response to the virus, treatments are improving and many vaccine candidates are entering the final phases of development.

Old Boy wants to send thousands to their deaths and crush the NHS, ending routine treatments for months to come, to “save the economy”. How’s the Swedish economy coming along?

Fifth richest economy in the world - can’t afford a solution for our citizens. Such a notion is laughable when you see success stories in much poorer countries.

Maybe next summer the virus will not like the heat and I’ll come out from under the stairs then. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

So do you now acknowledge it's not actually world-class and has therefore impacted the country adversely - economically and health-wise?

---------- Post added at 20:39 ---------- Previous post was at 20:33 ----------

Sadly, there's no other solution than lock-downs whilst we get closer to a vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well there is varying restrictions and an effective test, trace, isolate system. There’s no solution with private sector charlatans at the helm channeling billions out of the public purse without delivering solutions.

The solutions to this virus are, unfortunately, grounded in the ideological polar opposite of some on the forum. They cost money. The state needs to serve it’s primary function - to protect it’s people. It cannot do that as a hollowed out shell.

If the IRA were gunning down 150 people a day you’d can bet that’d get a stronger reaction.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Country supports following SAGE's advice - YouGov.

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/13...520256/photo/1

Re: Coronavirus
 

Perhaps they were not proven to work?

Er.....no ....they didn’t

https://www.ft.com/content/f28e26a0-...b-b3a618ca659d

Concerns about the 20min test and the issue of false positives raised last month in the BMJ

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3482

The false positives issue has never been addressed. The amount of people testing positive with out symptoms, especially ( because i happen to follow it) footballers and football managers. People in bio- bubbles tested every day, lots of protocols etc. But still testing positive. However, every news item I listen to they test positive without symptoms. I wonder are they tested again a few times to confirm the result?

I don’t know. They should be!

Re: Coronavirus
 

*Sigh*
What do you mean by "now".
Ive never said anything about how good, or bad, it is.
In fact, Im pretty sure the only comments I have ever made are that I dont have a smart phone to run any app on.
Stop trying to put words into my mouth Andrew, it wont work out well.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Biggest Tory revolt since Boris Johnson won the election in 2019, had Labour full on voted against the 10pm curfew measures, Boris would have lost despite his huge majority.

The full list of 42 Conservative MPs who rebelled to oppose the curfew regulations were: Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield)
Sir David Amess (Southend West)
Steve Baker (Wycombe)
Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire)
Bob Blackman (Harrow East)
Crispin Blunt (Reigate)
Peter Bone (Wellingborough)
Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West)
Sir Christopher Chope (Christchurch)
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds)
James Daly (Bury North)
Philip Davies (Shipley)
David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden)
Dehenna Davison (Bishop Auckland)
Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock)
Richard Drax (South Dorset)
Marcus Fysh (Yeovil)
Nusrat Ghani (Wealden)
Chris Green (Bolton West)
Tom Hunt (Ipswich)
Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire)
Chris Loder (West Dorset)
Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham)
Anthony Mangnall (Totnes)
Karl McCartney (Lincoln)
Esther McVey (Tatton)
Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle)
Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot)
Sir John Redwood (Wokingham)
Andrew Rosindell (Romford)
Gary Sambrook (Birmingham Northfield)
Bob Seely (Isle of Wight)
Henry Smith (Crawley)
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West)
Sir Robert Syms (Poole)
Derek Thomas (St Ives)
Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire)
Matt Vickers (Stockton South)
Christian Wakeford (Bury South)
Sir Charles Walker (Broxbourne)
Giles Watling (Clacton)
William Wragg (Hazel Grove)

The 23 Labour MPs who voted against the regulations, which included the 10pm curfew and other restrictions, were:
Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington)
Apsana Begum (Poplar and Limehouse)
Ben Bradshaw (Exeter)
Chris Bryant (Rhondda)
Dawn Butler (Brent Central)
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North)
Geraint Davies (Swansea West)
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish)
Mike Hill (Hartlepool)
Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton)
Kevan Jones (North Durham)
Ian Lavery (Wansbeck)
Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields)
Rebecca Long-Bailey (Salford and Eccles)
Ian Mearns (Gateshead)
Grahame Morris (Easington)
Kate Osborne (Jarrow)
Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Streatham)
Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton Kempton)
John Spellar (Warley)
Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton)
Jon Trickett (Hemsworth)
Derek Twigg (Halton)

Ten Liberal Democrats, six DUP MPs and Green Party MP Caroline Lucas also opposed the regulations.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...-vote-12103423

Re: Coronavirus
 

500 MPs in favour then?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some will have voted against thinking its too little too late, and others as they think we should just keep calm and carry on regardless. None of them know, they're just politicians. The scientists have more of a clue and they say we should have locked down weeks ago. Boris has stopped "following the science', bad move.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Maybe its bad science.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Or maybe its a PM who doesn't know wtf he is doing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Much like Old Boy, the country doesn't want personally infected by Coronavirus.

Re: Coronavirus
 

nah, they're experts, they couldn't be wrong again . . . could they?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Looking at the behaviour in Liverpool last night i don't think it matters anymore.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...begin-12103642

Re: Coronavirus
 

Which goes to show the problems the government in the UK has (whoever would be in power). Other countries the population do what they are asked, here it's hard enough to get people to do what they are told. (OK here the rules were not present yet but you do wonder if other populations would conform earlier rather than one last fling).

Same as back in Feb/Mar when asked to take care people flocked to tourist spots expecting lockdown which must of created greater infection vector.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Almost 20,000 cases. 2276 days to herd immunity.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Another day, another attempt by Old Boy to insult people with genuine concerns over the virus.

No, just a bit of humour, old chap. Like most people, I do have major concerns over the virus. What you are not grasping is that no matter how many lockdowns and circuit breakers we impose, the virus is still there. You still haven’t told us why another lockdown will have a different outcome to the first.


Not a single country in the world - or even an opportunistic leader of the opposition - considers your proposals to have any credibility at all. On any other topic posting your persistently inaccurate predictions, wishful thinking and now verging on insults would be considered petty trolling.

On the contrary, the herd immunity idea is gaining currency. The problem is the loud voices who are attempting to claim that such a policy indicates an uncaring attitude. It doesn’t. It is an acknowledgement of the nature of the virus, the fact that there is no cure and that if economies are wrecked by ineffective actions like this, economies will be wrecked, people will lose their jobs in the millions and governments will no longer be able to offer public services. More people will die as a result of all this, not less. As for trolling, the words pot and kettle come to mind.

You describe my ‘predictions’ as inaccurate. I call them opinions actually, and as we don’t know the outcome of these ‘predictions’, you are inaccurate in portraying them as inaccurate.

Other countries have made varying degrees success with their response to the virus, treatments are improving and many vaccine candidates are entering the final phases of development.

You are premature in describing these attempts at eliminating the virus as ‘degrees of success’ just as you are premature to judge Britain’s response to date if the measure is the number of cases/numbers of deaths. The time to rank countries in terms of their success is when the virus is eliminated. Your examples of ‘successful’ countries all have one thing in common. All of them have a higher proportion of their population who have not been infected to date and are still in danger of infection. As for the vaccines…well, let’s wait and see. After many decades, there has not been a single vaccine that has been found for coronavirus that is effective and does not have unacceptable side effects. The reduction of 10 years of testing down to less than 12 months spells danger to me. I shan’t be putting that ‘quick fix’ into my body.



Old Boy wants to send thousands to their deaths and crush the NHS, ending routine treatments for months to come, to “save the economy”. How’s the Swedish economy coming along?

As I have pointed out, the deaths will come anyway unless you lock people up forever. I don’t want anyone to die, but what you are failing to acknowledge is the absolute futility of how we are tackling this and the fact that this policy is actually increasing deaths. It is lockdown after lockdown that will simply extend further the inability of the NHS to treat people who have anything but COVID symptoms. I don’t see what similarities there are between the Swedish and the British economies - that is a laughable comparison.



Fifth richest economy in the world - can’t afford a solution for our citizens. Such a notion is laughable when you see success stories in much poorer countries.

Sixth richest, actually. As an economist, you should have known that.

So how many inaccuracies in that one post, jfman? I shan’t bother to count.

---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:23 ----------

Why? Has the virus gone away after the last lockdown? Do you want this to go on forever?

Your faith that a vaccine is just around the corner is remarkable. It would be good if you were right.

---------- Post added at 17:32 ---------- Previous post was at 17:28 ----------

Only if you persist with these lockdowns, which are simply prolonging the agony.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Are you now making it deliberately difficult to quote your posts?

Herd immunity gaining currency? Where?

Hadn’t realised we’d slipped to the sixth richest economy in the world. That’s probably the collapse of the pound post Brexit. We better get working on an economic stimulus like the bold Donald. The old economy isn’t coming back.

Nobody wants to die for it.

https://twitter.com/edconwaysky/stat...704594952?s=21

It’s quite interesting what the Government can afford despite spending so much time saying it can’t afford things.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Paranoia - i think that's on the symptom list;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lockdown on it’s own can’t without an effective test, trace, isolate regime. Plus wider public health measures. Including paying people sick pay, at or close to their wages, to incentivise getting a test rather than dismissing it as a cough/cold.

Lockdown and restrictions pushes more cases to later in the pandemic with better treatments and the flow of a vaccine.

It’s not a desirable outcome - my point all along remains it’s an inevitable one for all the reasons that justified it in March. There’s no saving the economy by letting the virus run through the population.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

You're right that it has to be across the world or else as soon as holidays start countries start importing and exporting it between themselves. In retrospect that looks like madness now to have minimal impact on saving airlines anyway

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is no saving it by constant lockdowns either.
The evidence is already there, loads of job losses and business closures already, with many more predicted to come when the furlough scheme ends in 2.5 weeks.

The NHS should probably be renamed the NCS, (National Covid Service) since thats about all they seem to deal with now, getting treatment for anything else is more & more difficult. I'm supposed to have an eye appointment at my local hospital, cancelled in March, still no new date available. I had a suspected chest infection the other week. I could not even visit the doctor, they just rang me and prescribed antibiotics (in hope I guess).

Re: Coronavirus
 

An expensive and in fact ruinous waste of time.

---------- Post added at 18:59 ---------- Previous post was at 18:52 ----------

Herd immunity can occur either naturally or with a vaccine. The latter is not guaranteed and constant lockdowns delay but don’t eliminate infections.

Reinfection has occurred only rarely and therefore can be ignored without further evidence. Spanish flu disappeared on its own after two years.

There is only one sensible solution, in my view. All the alternatives I have heard seem to be fatally flawed and these are for the pussies.

The PM knows what the right answer is, he just needs the courage to run with it.

---------- Post added at 19:03 ---------- Previous post was at 18:59 ----------

If this goes on much longer we won’t be able to afford these remedies. This is cloud cuckoo land if ever I saw it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's such an expensive and ruinous waste of time not a single country on earth is proactively pursuing the policy. Neither is the leader of the Opposition.

What is ruinous is arranging tens of thousands of unnecessary funerals, condemning those who need the NHS over the next 12 months to go without treatment as it fills up with Covid beds and achieving NO IMMUNITY AT ALL.

Stick to your seasonal epidemiology Old Boy. At least it was harmless banter.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah, people who want to protect the vulnerable and are concerned about the unknown dangers of long COVID are "pussies’?

Nice to see rational, reasoned arguments being put forward...

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...6&d=1602698716

Re: Coronavirus
 

You accuse me of not replying to the points you make in your posts (which is false, by the way) and when I respond to each point, you complain because that makes it difficult for you to respond. So you didn’t!

---------- Post added at 19:10 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

At last, a grudging acceptance that anything other than herd immunity is, ultimately, futile. Such an agreement is never going to happen.

Re: Coronavirus
 

After killing 50 million people (and infecting 500 million, out of a world population of 1.8 million) - so your example is something that kills nearly 3% of the world's population?

Re: Coronavirus
 

You are so right. I mean, how many repeated failed experiments does anyone need to have before admitting that the experiment has, well, failed?

As for the NHS, I have raised this very point with Sir John Redwood, and he is taking this forward. Given that in my area the infection rate is comparatively low, I’d like to know where all the GPS and nurses have gone. And if I can get served in a shop with the aid of a screen between us, why can we not have face to face doctor appointments? Seems to me that this is health and safety gone mad.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Old Boy has been clear since the start in fairness. He values human lives at less than the fraction of a percentage point on GDP this would lessen out economic decline by.

Here's one for Old Boy how deadly does a virus have to be before you put health first (bearing in mind your twisted view that there actually is a choice - there isn't). 1%? 5%? 10%?

What about longer term health implications - 10% of the population. 25%?

Or am I right that you'd never put health first?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Who cares what other countries are doing? We want a solution, not a lot of pussy-footing around.

It was by following what other countries are doing which has got us into this mess.

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:19 ----------

Not exactly, Hugh, you haven’t quite got it. My solution was to protect the elderly and the vulnerable, remember? The healthy population has little to worry about, so why lock them down?

We have tried the scattergun approach, and look where we are now.