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Media Boy UK 26-12-2018 21:36

Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
This is a continuation of the 'Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2018)' thread which you can find here:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33705858

1. The old thread has been closed, but will remain for information purposes;
2. I will collate all the information from my various sources and post on Cable Forum;

In addition to that I will be on hand to answer any questions that arise and to provide links to other sources of information as they come up.

Thank you.

gba93 27-12-2018 08:59

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Many thanks for all your hard work in 2018 and wishing you a great 2019 (with lots of good news).

OLD BOY 27-12-2018 11:08

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
So, what will 2019 bring that's new to Virgin Media customers? Well, here are some distinct possibilities:

Starzplay
VM have promised we will get this streaming service, which was due to start a few weeks ago, but has been delayed for technical reasons. Hopefully, this will arrive before the spring. It would be good if VM could make this part of a bundle of free SVOD services (along with Hayu) but it might be a stretch to expect that this will happen at this stage, as the monthly charge is £4.99. However, you never know!

Insight
This UHD channel may arrive on the platform this year. This service charges £2.99 per month, so bundling of this channel is perhaps more likely.

Universe 4K
This UHD channel was available only in North America until recently but is now a Prime channel in the UK. Not sure if this would be available with a subscription or pay per view. It's $10 per month in the States.

Disney+
This service may launch towards the end of the year and will contain three strands - Disney, sport and Hulu content. Almost certainly, this will not be part of a bundle, and you will be able to subscribe to the stream(s) you want.

Prime
Set to launch on Virgin earlier this year, it was pulled during the course of negotiations as this was more of a retail operation. At least that's what VM said - many have suspected that it was the competition of the Amazon channels that sent the deal into a nosedive. Nevertheless, I think it is inevitable Prime will launch on Virgin sometime, and this year is now more likely, given it is now available on BT.

Sky Atlantic and Sky UHD content
The VM contract with Sky ends this year, and this may at last signal the launch of Sky Atlantic on Virgin. Sky finally relented and let BT have it for the first time via the Now TV app in negotiations that took place earlier this year and Sky has indicated that the channel will be on all major TV platforms in 2019. The negotiations will almost certainly include Sky's UHD content, so hopefully, that will come to pass as well.

AMC
Not so sure about this one. Viewing figures for AMC are very low, and the BT Sport wholesale deal with VM is up for renegotiation this year. BT must be fairly heavily dependent on Virgin to guarantee this revenue given the cost of the content, and so Virgin may try to wrestle AMC from BT as part of the eventual agreement.

Sky Sports Racing
This channel launches in January.

If we get all of these on VM before the end of 2019, it will have been a very good year!

cheekyangus 27-12-2018 17:32

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
I was under the impression Sky Sports Racing is just an At The Races rebrand and therefore everyone has it (it was a base pack channel back when Starter was a package).

denphone 27-12-2018 17:42

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35977031)
I was under the impression Sky Sports Racing is just an At The Races rebrand and therefore everyone has it (it was a base pack channel back when Starter was a package).

Sky Sports Racing is just an At The Races rebrand but don't be surprised in time that in order to get it you will have to subscribe to Sky's premium sports channels.

cheekyangus 27-12-2018 17:59

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35977032)
Sky Sports Racing is just an At The Races rebrand but don't be surprised in time that in order to get it you will have to subscribe to Sky's premium sports channels.

I won't be that surprised. But I always got impression ATR was purposely free to give it the wide reach the race courses involved wanted. I think I read that somewhere once.

I never watch ATR.

denphone 27-12-2018 18:04

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35977033)
I won't be that surprised. But I always got impression ATR was purposely free to give it the wide reach the race courses involved wanted. I think I read that somewhere once.

I never watch ATR.

Most of ATR's best rights currently are foreign racing rights.

Raider999 27-12-2018 21:18

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35977033)
I won't be that surprised. But I always got impression ATR was purposely free to give it the wide reach the race courses involved wanted. I think I read that somewhere once.

I never watch ATR.


Nor, do I - no interest whatsoever in Horse Racing, but each to his/her own.

vincerooney 28-12-2018 19:11

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Good evening all- so 2019 is the year the BT sport deal comes to an end. Will Virgin Media pull off the impossible and keep it "free" or will BT desperately try to claw more money back? Apparently they're losing a lot with the sport coverage hence why they're stepping back a bit and with a new chief executive i believe. We may not get so lucky anymore.

Its a shame really as BT sport was an excellent channel but you sense the wheels are coming off slightly even though its sadly kept the champions league coverage rather than it reverting to the superior sky.

As for Sky Atlantic finally...i bet it'll be some sort of "vm customers get 10% off now tv but you need to watch it via your laptop or smart tv" rubbish. I have a horrible feeling sky will do a uktv move and leave the deal to the last minute as cheap skate virgin attempt to pay bottom dollar whilst inevitably sending out the "we dont like to raise bills" generic letter.

As for AMC i can see BT refusing to give that even if virgin renew the BT channels as a sort of "hey you cant get everything off us" sort of attitude

2019 shapes up with Sky the front runner, BT cooling down with purchasing rights but still the commanding second place and virgin media continuing to be cheap skates who are bullied in negotiations after going in with a low ball offer and leaving it to the last minute.

Mystic Vince hopes to be proven wrong.

Hope you all have a great new year to you wonderful people

Inactive Digital 28-12-2018 19:28

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
A new agreement for BT Sport was made in the summer:
https://www.virginmedia.com/corporat...in-4k-uhd.html

So it looks unlikely AMC will arrive at the moment.

jfman 28-12-2018 21:27

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Where is the source for this “uncertainty” over BT Sport wholesale deal? I’ve seen it repeated a few times but can’t find where it originated.

The Virgin/BT deal was a good deal when it started for both, a good deal when BT got ambitious (Champions League period to date), and there’s really no indication as to why it’d be a bad deal now they are retreating into their shell somewhat.

If they were unlikely to pick up many direct subs in the 2016-2019 period with maximum rights I’d guess the chances aren’t high as the quality of their Premiership games drops (arguably) from next season, SPFL goes from 2020 and who knows about the Champions League from 2021. If anything the stable revenue stream in their period of transition will be a good thing, not a bad one.

OLD BOY 29-12-2018 10:18

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Inactive Digital (Post 35977119)
A new agreement for BT Sport was made in the summer:
https://www.virginmedia.com/corporat...in-4k-uhd.html

So it looks unlikely AMC will arrive at the moment.

Thanks, ID. I missed the fact that a multi-year deal was done last summer. For some reason, I thought the 4K channel was a one-off agreement until the existing deal ended.

I agree, therefore, AMC seems to be out of reach for the time being.

---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977136)
Where is the source for this “uncertainty” over BT Sport wholesale deal? I’ve seen it repeated a few times but can’t find where it originated.

The Virgin/BT deal was a good deal when it started for both, a good deal when BT got ambitious (Champions League period to date), and there’s really no indication as to why it’d be a bad deal now they are retreating into their shell somewhat.

If they were unlikely to pick up many direct subs in the 2016-2019 period with maximum rights I’d guess the chances aren’t high as the quality of their Premiership games drops (arguably) from next season, SPFL goes from 2020 and who knows about the Champions League from 2021. If anything the stable revenue stream in their period of transition will be a good thing, not a bad one.

I think the deal has advantages for both BT and Virgin Media. We are safe for now.

Maggy 29-12-2018 11:16

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35977033)
I won't be that surprised. But I always got impression ATR was purposely free to give it the wide reach the race courses involved wanted. I think I read that somewhere once.

I never watch ATR.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ra...utbid-ITV.html

Quote:

ATR chief executive Matthew Imi, who said the new channel will have access to 14million homes via the Sky and Virgin platforms, added: 'There has been a portrayal of our relationship with ITV being somehow adversarial. That could not be further from the truth.
'We both have a common objective to grow the sport and generate new audiences. We should be working together to achieve that and that is the intention.'


RichardCoulter 29-12-2018 11:46

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
ITV would do well to take no notice of what Sky have said about racing rights. They aren't to be trusted as a company after renaging on previous promises e.g. saying that they would never charge for non premium channels and other sly underneath behaviour e.g. coming to a deal with VM for their full portfolio and then launching Sky Atlantic.

Cardiffboy88 30-12-2018 12:42

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
I noticed that the Worldbox service has a message that it will be closing. I may have missed this in the last thread, but does anyone know if these channels will be made available on the EPG instead? Seems a big chunk of channels to drop.

RichardCoulter 30-12-2018 14:38

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardiffboy88 (Post 35977323)
I noticed that the Worldbox service has a message that it will be closing. I may have missed this in the last thread, but does anyone know if these channels will be made available on the EPG instead? Seems a big chunk of channels to drop.

See post #27.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33706964

Media Boy UK 30-12-2018 19:11

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Sorry for being offline over the past three weeks or so "Media Boy Dog" pass away in early December. We will be back to full power from January 7th.

RIP pal.

jfman 30-12-2018 19:17

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Sorry to hear that, they truly are man’s best friend.

RichardCoulter 30-12-2018 19:28

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 35977353)
Sorry for being offline over the past three weeks or so "Media Boy Dog" pass away in early December. We will be back to full power from January 7th.

RIP pal.

Sorry to hear that, it's horrible when a beloved pet dies, they really are part of the family.

https://www.rainbowsbridge.com/Poem.htm

Media Boy UK 30-12-2018 21:16

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Radio Times: Sky Cinema to make you Feel Good next month.

Radio Times has confirmed that Sky Cinema Comedy will become known as Sky Cinema Feel Good from the 11th of January until January 25th.

vincerooney 30-12-2018 21:17

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 35977353)
Sorry for being offline over the past three weeks or so "Media Boy Dog" pass away in early December. We will be back to full power from January 7th.

RIP pal.

Very sad news MB. All the best.

Media Boy UK 30-12-2018 21:58

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Can I ask if Virgin Media are still broadcasting NDTV Spice on Virgin Channel 837?

The listing has been saying "This is NDTV Spice" for weeks now.

ozsat 31-12-2018 17:21

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
The channel is still broadcasting - just no proper listings.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 35977377)
Can I ask if Virgin Media are still broadcasting NDTV Spice on Virgin Channel 837?

The listing has been saying "This is NDTV Spice" for weeks now.


Media Boy UK 02-01-2019 23:54

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ozsat (Post 35977426)
The channel is still broadcasting - just no proper listings.

Thanks for info. Happy late new year everyone.

Dave42 03-01-2019 00:47

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
hopefully 2019 will be good year for VM

OLD BOY 03-01-2019 13:29

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35977697)
hopefully 2019 will be good year for VM

With luck, it will be, Dave, see post #3. Unfortunately, it now looks almost certain that we will not be getting AMC, as the multi-year deal on BT Sports was actually renewed last year.

Dave42 03-01-2019 14:07

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35977749)
With luck, it will be, Dave, see post #3. Unfortunately, it now looks almost certain that we will not be getting AMC, as the multi-year deal on BT Sports was actually renewed last year.

well be getting SA OB and hopefully can get sky UHD but not holding my breath for that one

denphone 03-01-2019 14:25

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35977751)
well be getting SA OB and hopefully can get sky UHD but not holding my breath for that one

l ain't not holding my breath for either...

vincerooney 03-01-2019 17:39

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35977749)
With luck, it will be, Dave, see post #3. Unfortunately, it now looks almost certain that we will not be getting AMC, as the multi-year deal on BT Sports was actually renewed last year.

was it? i thought the bt sport contract ends this year with VM and thats the whole panic about us losing BT sport channels in XL?

OLD BOY 03-01-2019 19:12

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35977761)
was it? i thought the bt sport contract ends this year with VM and thats the whole panic about us losing BT sport channels in XL?

That's what I thought, too, but the press release issued when BT Sport 4K was introduced last summer said otherwise!

jfman 03-01-2019 19:14

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
There’s never been a source given when I asked about the “panic”.

OLD BOY 03-01-2019 19:20

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35977751)
well be getting SA OB and hopefully can get sky UHD but not holding my breath for that one

All I can say, Dave, is that Sky stated last year that in 2019, SA would be on all major TV platforms. We know it will be on BT later this year (via Now TV on their platform) and so it would be reasonable to assume that it will be added to Virgin following the expiry of the 10 year deal this coming summer.

It is expected that Sky UHD content would also be discussed during these carriage negotiations. I would be surprised if a deal was not done, frankly.

jfman 03-01-2019 19:33

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
The problem is “major tv platforms” doesn’t have a fixed definition.

OLD BOY 03-01-2019 22:25

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977768)
The problem is “major tv platforms” doesn’t have a fixed definition.

What is there to interpret? Virgin Media is second only to Sky.

jfman 04-01-2019 00:46

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35977776)
What is there to interpret? Virgin Media is second only to Sky.

Sky could view themselves as the only major TV platform. The statement holds true if they take that view and it isn’t on Virgin.

You, me and this forum may take another view. I’d not be holding my breath for Sky Atlantic on the basis of a line in a Sky press release that doesn’t explicitly say there’s a deal with Virgin for it.

If Sky/Virgin had negotiated terms I’d have expected it to be available sooner.

Ddonald2016 04-01-2019 01:04

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35977754)
l ain't not holding my breath for either...

Sadly at the end of the current contract ends and virgin can’t get sky UHD then it will be years until we get another chance

jfman 04-01-2019 01:32

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
I’m not sure it is like that.

This forum seems to obsess over when contracts start/end as if these are the only points where agreements can be made. While it’s the most natural point, certain things have appeared outside the cycle. Virgin are Sky’s biggest customer after all, it’d be ludicrous to only negotiate deals at set points in a cycle if there’s a deal to be made.

Sky News HD and Sports News HD launched in January 2015.
Sky Sports 3&4 and F1 in HD in May 2014
Sky Arts 1 and 2 HD in April 2011
Sky 1 HD in October 2010
Sky Sports 1&2 HD (Movies HD?) in July 2010
Basics dispute resolved in November 2008

OLD BOY 04-01-2019 09:23

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977780)
Sky could view themselves as the only major TV platform. The statement holds true if they take that view and it isn’t on Virgin.

You, me and this forum may take another view. I’d not be holding my breath for Sky Atlantic on the basis of a line in a Sky press release that doesn’t explicitly say there’s a deal with Virgin for it.

If Sky/Virgin had negotiated terms I’d have expected it to be available sooner.

No, they used the plural (all major platforms) while permitting BT to access the channel from this year (2019). History shows that we rarely get to hear of deals that are done on carriage deals between Virgin Media and the TV channels.

---------- Post added at 09:23 ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977783)
I’m not sure it is like that.

This forum seems to obsess over when contracts start/end as if these are the only points where agreements can be made. While it’s the most natural point, certain things have appeared outside the cycle. Virgin are Sky’s biggest customer after all, it’d be ludicrous to only negotiate deals at set points in a cycle if there’s a deal to be made.

Sky News HD and Sports News HD launched in January 2015.
Sky Sports 3&4 and F1 in HD in May 2014
Sky Arts 1 and 2 HD in April 2011
Sky 1 HD in October 2010
Sky Sports 1&2 HD (Movies HD?) in July 2010
Basics dispute resolved in November 2008

Nonetheless, there are many more examples of where nothing changes until the carriage deal expires.

jfman 04-01-2019 09:32

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Do any of your many more examples involve Sky?

If so can you provide dates the contracts began, ended and what additional channels (if any) were added at that point?

How Sky define major TV platforms and how you define this can still vary. They could include Now TV as a platform they describe as major because they own it. It still doesn’t guarantee they mean Virgin or that we will see Sky Atlantic.

Which ten year contract expires this summer? Can you provide a source for this? Ten years doesn’t fit any of the timelines of channel launches I outlined above.

Maggy 04-01-2019 12:28

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Look even if Sky give up Sky Atlantic to VM they will just start up a new premium channel that isn't on VM which of course everyone will speculate that it will eventually be offered to VM..and around and around it goes.

OLD BOY 04-01-2019 16:53

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Punching through the negativism, some positive news. The Smithsonian Channel is set to launch on Virgin Media in February.

Smithsonian Networks is a joint venture between CBS Corporation's Showtime Networks, Inc. and the Smithsonian Institution.

According to Wikipedia, the network’s content is inspired by the Smithsonian Institution’s museums, research facilities and magazines. It features original non-fiction programming that covers a wide range of historical, scientific and cultural subjects.

denphone 04-01-2019 16:58

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Any links to substantiate this OB?.

RichardCoulter 04-01-2019 17:02

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
I've not seen anything to say that it's definitely launching on VM.

OLD BOY 04-01-2019 17:14

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977783)
I’m not sure it is like that.

This forum seems to obsess over when contracts start/end as if these are the only points where agreements can be made. While it’s the most natural point, certain things have appeared outside the cycle. Virgin are Sky’s biggest customer after all, it’d be ludicrous to only negotiate deals at set points in a cycle if there’s a deal to be made.

Sky News HD and Sports News HD launched in January 2015.
Sky Sports 3&4 and F1 in HD in May 2014
Sky Arts 1 and 2 HD in April 2011
Sky 1 HD in October 2010
Sky Sports 1&2 HD (Movies HD?) in July 2010
Basics dispute resolved in November 2008

You are so argumentative!

The current distribution agreement runs until this coming May. People have been referring to it as the 'ten year agreement' because we got the Sky Basics channels back late 2008, and successive agreements have been built on that. You could have discovered that for yourself with a quick internet search, which took me all of five minutes.

https://www.virginmedia.com/corporat...agreement.html

---------- Post added at 17:14 ---------- Previous post was at 17:11 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35977828)
Any links to substantiate this OB?.

I couldn't remember where I picked that up, but this link confirms it.

https://www.tvchannellists.com)

You will find it by scrolling down to 'United Kingdom', tapping on 'Virgin Media', go right down to the bottom of the page to 'Forthcoming changes to digital platforms', and it's under February. Sorry, couldn't link the actual page on here.

cheekyangus 04-01-2019 17:14

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35977825)
Punching through the negativism, some positive news. The Smithsonian Channel is set to launch on Virgin Media in February.

Smithsonian Networks is a joint venture between CBS Corporation's Showtime Networks, Inc. and the Smithsonian Institution.

According to Wikipedia, the network’s content is inspired by the Smithsonian Institution’s museums, research facilities and magazines. It features original non-fiction programming that covers a wide range of historical, scientific and cultural subjects.

Love the sound of that. :)

denphone 04-01-2019 17:18

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35977832)



I couldn't remember where I picked that up, but this link confirms it.

https://www.tvchannellists.com/Forth...UK_%26_Ireland)

It does not back it up OB as it just states the channel is only on Sky in HD.

jfman 04-01-2019 17:21

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35977825)
Punching through the negativism, some positive news. The Smithsonian Channel is set to launch on Virgin Media in February.

Smithsonian Networks is a joint venture between CBS Corporation's Showtime Networks, Inc. and the Smithsonian Institution.

According to Wikipedia, the network’s content is inspired by the Smithsonian Institution’s museums, research facilities and magazines. It features original non-fiction programming that covers a wide range of historical, scientific and cultural subjects.

I wouldn't describe asking for information to corroborate a detailed post as 'being negative'.

Original reporting of the Sky Basics dispute being resolved points towards that contract being until June 12, 2011.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...yb-virginmedia

Obviously the channels remained available so we can assume a further deal was done, the next reports I can find are from May 2014 for a five year deal (covering Sky Basics and additional Sports channels in HD, but not Sky Atlantic).

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...l-sky-atlantic

It's worth noting the deal that is making Sky Atlantic available on BT is actually BT selling Now TV (a Sky product) directly to it's customers.

I'd like to see Sky Atlantic available as much as the next bloke, but I'd not be holding my breath. If a deal had been done there's no real reason it wouldn't be available now, as opposed to a delay of a number of months.

As Maggy J rightly points out Sky generally always retain something as a unique selling point - Sky Sports Xtra, interactive functions, HD content, streaming services, Sky Atlantic.

Eventually it moves on to something else - so the question is whether UHD is going to be appealing enough to do that on its own without content.

OLD BOY 04-01-2019 17:39

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35977804)
Look even if Sky give up Sky Atlantic to VM they will just start up a new premium channel that isn't on VM which of course everyone will speculate that it will eventually be offered to VM..and around and around it goes.

That might have been the case once, but not now. Relationships between the two companies have improved massively since 2008, and Sky is now looking to scale back on the number of channels it runs.

---------- Post added at 17:39 ---------- Previous post was at 17:36 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35977835)
It does not back it up OB as it just states the channel is only on Sky in HD.

I'm not sure where you found that, Den. On the page I was looking at, it says the channel will be on all platforms.

I have amended my original post as it did not link to the page I was referring to. Follow the advice that is now on there, and you should arrive at the page I was looking at.

denphone 04-01-2019 17:44

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Thanks OB as l have found it now.:tu:

cheekyangus 04-01-2019 18:08

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Smithsonian Networks is a partner with Blue Ant Media in Blue Skye Entertainment which is behind LoveNature and ZooMoo.

denphone 04-01-2019 18:11

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
LoveNature is a good channel IMO.

RichardCoulter 04-01-2019 18:45

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35977841)
Smithsonian Networks is a partner with Blue Ant Media in Blue Skye Entertainment which is behind LoveNature and ZooMoo.

As VM now have an existing relationship with them, let's hope it does come to the platform.

---------- Post added at 18:45 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35977835)
It does not back it up OB as it just states the channel is only on Sky in HD.

I believe that tvchannellists is a website where anyone can amend it like Wikipedia. As such, whilst some predictions turn out to be correct, many do not.

The last I heard was that carriage contracts were "to be confirmed" for VM, Sky, Freeview and Freesat, so it looks like no carriage agreements have yet been finalised.

jfman 04-01-2019 19:41

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
It’d be helpful if the Wikipedia style page cited sources too. I know the thread loves it’s rumours but it’d be nice to split the rumours and facts.

RichardCoulter 04-01-2019 23:26

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
There can be cases where it becomes a grey area though e.g. something confirmed as definitely coming could be called off or someone may have correct, but unverifiable, info that has been given on the basis that no names are mentioned etc.

jfman 04-01-2019 23:49

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Then it should ideally say who it can be attributed to.

(Sources of ... on ... forum)

If something is definitely coming and a deal has been signed I expect the channel to turn up. If someone is speculating on the outcome of negotiations that should be made clear.

johnathome 05-01-2019 13:23

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35977834)
Love the sound of that. :)

You can view some of their documentaries through the Smithsonian addon available through official kodi repo, it doesn't appear to be region locked.

japitts 06-01-2019 17:52

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35977842)
LoveNature is a good channel IMO.

Seconded - we probably watch more natural history & wildlife shows from LoveNature HD than we do Nat Geo/Wild HD these days.

It's also a non-advert channel too, along with ZooMoo. It's really quite handy having an educational kids channel that doesn't carry commercials.

Raider999 06-01-2019 19:41

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35977857)
It’d be helpful if the Wikipedia style page cited sources too. I know the thread loves it’s rumours but it’d be nice to split the rumours and facts.

I totally agree, split this thread into confirmed new channels and rumours, wish lists etc

OLD BOY 07-01-2019 09:34

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35978081)
I totally agree, split this thread into confirmed new channels and rumours, wish lists etc

That'll be the Changelog! When was the last time Virgin Media confirmed a new channel? Admiitedly they did that with Starzplay....that went well, didn't it?

The return of UKTV was also announced in advance, but that was an unusual dispute situation. We still haven't got the increased on demand programming we were promised.

Mr K 07-01-2019 13:43

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35978111)
That'll be the Changelog! When was the last time Virgin Media confirmed a new channel? Admiitedly they did that with Starzplay....that went well, didn't it?

The return of UKTV was also announced in advance, but that was an unusual dispute situation. We still haven't got the increased on demand programming we were promised.

Surely they're isn't anything on UKTV you'd want to watch anyway OB ;)
(apart from the wonderful vet drama 'All Things Bright and Beautiful', with Timothy Christopher :) ).

vincerooney 07-01-2019 14:00

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35978111)
That'll be the Changelog! When was the last time Virgin Media confirmed a new channel? Admiitedly they did that with Starzplay....that went well, didn't it?

The return of UKTV was also announced in advance, but that was an unusual dispute situation. We still haven't got the increased on demand programming we were promised.

I think people forget about the change log old boy as nothing is usually posted there as we rarely get anything... for people who don’t want discussion or rumours just go to the change log and never come here. You’ll get cold hard facts there of any new channels, channels being removed or new services

The coming soon thread is to discuss and debate rumours etc.

System works very well I think!

OLD BOY 07-01-2019 17:55

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35978135)
Surely they're isn't anything on UKTV you'd want to watch anyway OB ;)
(apart from the wonderful vet drama 'All Things Bright and Beautiful', with Timothy Christopher :) ).

I didn't say I watched it at all, Mr K! I did record 'Harrow' as it was new (a rarity on UKTV) and was severely unimpressed! Some of the stuff on there is OK, but of course it's been on before.

denphone 07-01-2019 20:20

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Starzplay coming to Virgin TV on the 9th of January.

jfman 07-01-2019 20:42

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35978138)
The coming soon thread is to discuss and debate rumours etc.

If so it's got the wrong name.

"My mate down the pub says we will get Sky Atlantic by the end of the month. His cousin dog sits for someone who works in a VM call centre on Saturdays and Sundays."

epsilon 07-01-2019 21:46

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35978240)
If so it's got the wrong name.

"My mate down the pub says we will get Sky Atlantic by the end of the month. His cousin dog sits for someone who works in a VM call centre on Saturdays and Sundays."


Sounds legit...

OLD BOY 08-01-2019 07:38

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35978235)
Starzplay coming to Virgin TV on the 9th of January.

Good news, Den. Has this been confirmed anywhere?

denphone 08-01-2019 07:44

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35978287)
Good news, Den. Has this been confirmed anywhere?

It was on Virgins discovery content bar OB.

OLD BOY 08-01-2019 10:03

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35978288)
It was on Virgins discovery content bar OB.

Thanks, Den.

Raider999 08-01-2019 11:35

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35978240)
If so it's got the wrong name.

"My mate down the pub says we will get Sky Atlantic by the end of the month. His cousin dog sits for someone who works in a VM call centre on Saturdays and Sundays."


I quite agree, as a relative new year to the forum I was unaware of the 'change log' wherever that is.

This thread should really have the word "Rumoured" at the start of its title so everyone knows it is just that.

OLD BOY 08-01-2019 12:07

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 35978356)
I quite agree, as a relative new year to the forum I was unaware of the 'change log' wherever that is.

This thread should really have the word "Rumoured" at the start of its title so everyone knows it is just that.

Except that it is not only rumours that are posted to this thread. Also included are official announcements, media reports, forecasts and speculation.

I agree that 'coming soon' may be a bit of an exaggeration, but now that you have been appraised of the general idea, you are up to speed and can choose whether or not you wish to read this thread.

If we just had confirmed developments, there would be very little to report and this thread would disappear from the index, which for some reason is restricted to one and a bit pages of titles at the moment.

spiderplant 08-01-2019 13:27

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35978365)
which for some reason is restricted to one and a bit pages of titles at the moment.

Try changing your "Default Thread Age Cut Off" in User CP

Maggy 08-01-2019 15:52

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Let's just accept that rumours and official notices collide all the time on the internet. Quite often official notices turn out to be nothing of the kind. As for speculation why not? It gives members hope. Also topic matter is extremely fluid on this thread. I gave up trying to apply that a long time ago. However it's not a general chat thread so do actually try to discuss what's coming soon to Virgin TV gossip or otherwise.

OLD BOY 08-01-2019 19:05

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 35978383)
Try changing your "Default Thread Age Cut Off" in User CP

Thanks, spider - didn't realise that option was there!

trevrpb 09-01-2019 09:43

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Hi all,

Going back to the rebrand of ATR to SkySportsRacing, do we know if/when Virgin are getting the HD variant. All the lead up since the announcement was made early last year about this, it was alluded that Virgin would be getting it in HD and there was even a sponsored race at Newcastle early January with a title of Watch SKySportsRacing HD on Virgin ....'(Channel No was wrong, saying 435 instead of 535).

I've seen a date of 8th January mentioned elsewhere, but now see 25th as a date.

As regards to it becoming part of SkySports premium package, personally do not see that happening..yet. It really is being used as a vehicle to plug the premium Sky Sports / Sky Cinema channels.

If/when Sky manage to secure rights to more channels from more of the top courses from RacingTV, then it may be that they include it as part of the main SkySports package. They have already got the rights back for Ascot from March 2019 and Chester. (Bangor as well). But although I am an avid horse racing follower, it really doesn't have as much mainstream appeal as some racing fans seem to think it has, so Sky have to factor that in, if they are thinking about making it a 'premium' channel

Trev

denphone 09-01-2019 10:03

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by trevrpb (Post 35978535)
Hi all,

Going back to the rebrand of ATR to SkySportsRacing, do we know if/when Virgin are getting the HD variant. All the lead up since the announcement was made early last year about this, it was alluded that Virgin would be getting it in HD and there was even a sponsored race at Newcastle early January with a title of Watch SKySportsRacing HD on Virgin ....'(Channel No was wrong, saying 435 instead of 535).

I've seen a date of 8th January mentioned elsewhere, but now see 25th as a date.

There was a site that said Sky Sports Racing HD was coming on then 8th of January but of course there was no substantiation of that by the companies involved.

Have you any link that says it is coming on the 25th of January?.

---------- Post added at 09:58 ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevrpb (Post 35978535)

As regards to it becoming part of SkySports premium package, personally do not see that happening..yet. It really is being used as a vehicle to plug the premium Sky Sports / Sky Cinema channels.

Yes you are probably right in the short term but longer term that might change.

---------- Post added at 10:03 ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevrpb (Post 35978535)

If/when Sky manage to secure rights to more channels from more of the top courses from RacingTV, then it may be that they include it as part of the main SkySports package. They have already got the rights back for Ascot from March 2019 and Chester. (Bangor as well). But although I am an avid horse racing follower, it really doesn't have as much mainstream appeal as some racing fans seem to think it has, so Sky have to factor that in, if they are thinking about making it a 'premium' channel

Indeed this will play out over the next few years as some racecourses come to the end of their current contract with Racing TV as Sky have huge finances which will be hard to resist especially for the independent racecourses who are not tied to Jockey Club Racecourses or the other racing groups.

trevrpb 09-01-2019 10:05

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35978544)

Have you any link that says it is coming on the 25th of January?.[COLOR="Silver"]

Unsubstantiated but here:-

https://tvchannellists.com/Forthcomi...(UK_&_Ireland)

Virgin not commenting/giving any dates, no response from ATR

Trev

denphone 09-01-2019 10:09

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by trevrpb (Post 35978554)
Unsubstantiated but here:-

https://tvchannellists.com/Forthcomi...(UK_&_Ireland)

Virgin not commenting/giving any dates, no response from ATR

Trev

That was the site that was giving us the 8th of January date HD launch the other day.

trevrpb 09-01-2019 10:11

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35978555)
That was the site that was giving us the 8th of January date HD launch the other day.

Apparently so

OLD BOY 09-01-2019 10:21

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35978555)
That was the site that was giving us the 8th of January date HD launch the other day.

These things are very fluid. Could be all manner of reasons for the delay. At least the signs are still positive so far!

Starz Play has still not appeared yet. It's supposed to arrive today.

denphone 09-01-2019 10:28

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35978560)
These things are very fluid. Could be all manner of reasons for the delay. At least the signs are still positive so far!

Or it might be rumours that have no substantiation to them at all.

---------- Post added at 10:28 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35978560)
Starz Play has still not appeared yet. It's supposed to arrive today.

Perhaps someone with much greater insider knowledge can give us a update on that.

trevrpb 09-01-2019 10:34

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35978562)
Or it might be rumours that have no substantiation to them at all.[COLOR="Silver"]

Or just plain finger in the air guesswork !!

Trev

ozsat 09-01-2019 11:03

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
It is available in: OnDemand -> BoxSets -> Channels
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35978560)
Starz Play has still not appeared yet. It's supposed to arrive today.


OLD BOY 09-01-2019 11:46

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ozsat (Post 35978567)
It is available in: OnDemand -> BoxSets -> Channels

That's a strange place to put it! I was looking for it under 'Apps and Games'.

denphone 09-01-2019 11:59

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35978579)
That's a strange place to put it! I was looking for it under 'Apps and Games'.

That is where l thought it would have been put..

BenMcr 09-01-2019 12:09

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35978579)
That's a strange place to put it! I was looking for it under 'Apps and Games'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35978582)
That is where l thought it would have been put..

It wouldn't go there as it's not an app. It's content being delivered using VM's On Demand platform.

denphone 09-01-2019 12:19

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Thanks for that confirmation BenMcr.

cheekyangus 09-01-2019 13:19

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 35978586)
It wouldn't go there as it's not an app. It's content being delivered using VM's On Demand platform.

So is it bundled with a package then? And which levels?
-------
I just checked, it must be above Mix as it says Upgrade To Watch here.

denphone 09-01-2019 13:24

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 35978598)
So is it bundled with a package then? And which levels?

As far as l know you still have to pay the £4.99 a month subscription fee for it whatever package one is on..

BenMcr 09-01-2019 13:41

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35978599)
As far as l know you still have to pay the £4.99 a month subscription fee for it whatever package one is on..

Correct. It is a separate subscription to all TV packs.

denphone 09-01-2019 14:32

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by trevrpb (Post 35978535)

If/when Sky manage to secure rights to more channels from more of the top courses from RacingTV, then it may be that they include it as part of the main SkySports package. They have already got the rights back for Ascot from March 2019 and Chester. (Bangor as well). But although I am an avid horse racing follower, it really doesn't have as much mainstream appeal as some racing fans seem to think it has, so Sky have to factor that in, if they are thinking about making it a 'premium' channel

Trev

Coming back to your original post Trev here is the list of British Racecourses and there are quite a few independent racecourses on that list and l would say most of these in time in regard to their TV media rights will sign up with Sky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sh_racecourses

trevrpb 09-01-2019 19:17

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35978607)
Coming back to your original post Trev here is the list of British Racecourses and there are quite a few independent racecourses on that list and l would say most of these in time in regard to their TV media rights will sign up with Sky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sh_racecourses

Yeah, as an avid racing fan, I know the courses on both channels. It was disappointing that Chelmsford (Origianally known as Great Leighs) jumped ship to RacingTV after all the support from ATR through the dark days before it re-opened as Chelmsford.

I have no doubt some of the tracks that are able to switch to Sky Sports Racing will do in time. SkySportsRacing just need to entice higher profile courses with Grade 1 races, both Flat and NH, and who knows, the gates will open. I should add, i have no angst with RacingTV. As far as I am concerned, it is healthy competition.
If there was only one Racing Channel as there was in the past, with the amount of race meetings on some days, they just wouldn't cope with just one channel, it would have to be across at least 2 channels, just like Australia.They have Sky Thoroughbred Central along with Sky Racing 1 and Sky Racing 2, which covers most of the racing across Australia. There is also Racing.Com which covers racing run by the Victoria Racing Club

Trev

RichardCoulter 09-01-2019 21:10

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
The usual Sky policy is to eliminate any competition as well as offering things cheap or free until you're used to having the channels. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to get more and more races to make Racing TV unviable. This would then pave the way for Sky Sports Racing 2...and then take it out of the basic channels and put it into the Sky Sports pack (with an opening special offer).

Raider999 09-01-2019 21:42

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35978672)
The usual Sky policy is to eliminate any competition as well as offering things cheap or free until you're used to having the channels. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to get more and more races to make Racing TV unviable. This would then pave the way for Sky Sports Racing 2...and then take it out of the basic channels and put it into the Sky Sports pack (with an opening special offer).

That would make sound business sense - something Sky are good at

Media Boy UK 10-01-2019 00:08

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Radio Times has reveal that from Saturday:

-Sky Cinema Hits will be known as Sky Cinema MegaHits until February 9th.

---------- Post added at 00:08 ---------- Previous post was at 00:01 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevrpb (Post 35978535)
Hi all,

Going back to the rebrand of ATR to SkySportsRacing, do we know if/when Virgin are getting the HD variant. All the lead up since the announcement was made early last year about this, it was alluded that Virgin would be getting it in HD and there was even a sponsored race at Newcastle early January with a title of Watch SKySportsRacing HD on Virgin ....'(Channel No was wrong, saying 435 instead of 535).

I've seen a date of 8th January mentioned elsewhere, but now see 25th as a date.

As regards to it becoming part of SkySports premium package, personally do not see that happening..yet. It really is being used as a vehicle to plug the premium Sky Sports / Sky Cinema channels.

If/when Sky manage to secure rights to more channels from more of the top courses from RacingTV, then it may be that they include it as part of the main SkySports package. They have already got the rights back for Ascot from March 2019 and Chester. (Bangor as well). But although I am an avid horse racing follower, it really doesn't have as much mainstream appeal as some racing fans seem to think it has, so Sky have to factor that in, if they are thinking about making it a 'premium' channel

Trev

Sky's deal with Virgin Media UK is set to be up in May 2019 so we may not see Sky Sports Racing HD until after April 2019.

denphone 10-01-2019 04:45

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35978579)
That's a strange place to put it! I was looking for it under 'Apps and Games'.

Here is some more info here.


https://www.virginmedia.com/virgin-t...tarzplay_JAN19

denphone 10-01-2019 09:35

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by trevrpb (Post 35978653)
Yeah, as an avid racing fan, I know the courses on both channels. It was disappointing that Chelmsford (Origianally known as Great Leighs) jumped ship to RacingTV after all the support from ATR through the dark days before it re-opened as Chelmsford.

Yes l am surprised that Fred Done came to the decision to move to Racing TV.

---------- Post added at 09:28 ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevrpb (Post 35978653)
I have no doubt some of the tracks that are able to switch to Sky Sports Racing will do in time. SkySportsRacing just need to entice higher profile courses with Grade 1 races, both Flat and NH, and who knows, the gates will open. I should add, i have no angst with RacingTV. As far as I am concerned, it is healthy competition.

No l certainly don't have anything against Racing TV but a 80lb gorilla has now entered the race and they don't like finishing second to no one so l expect some big courses in time to cross the divide.

---------- Post added at 09:31 ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevrpb (Post 35978653)
If there was only one Racing Channel as there was in the past, with the amount of race meetings on some days, they just wouldn't cope with just one channel, it would have to be across at least 2 channels, just like Australia.They have Sky Thoroughbred Central along with Sky Racing 1 and Sky Racing 2, which covers most of the racing across Australia. There is also Racing.Com which covers racing run by the Victoria Racing Club

Trev

Funny such is my increasing old age l remember the old Racing channel before there was Attheraces and Racing UK.

---------- Post added at 09:35 ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevrpb (Post 35978653)
If there was only one Racing Channel as there was in the past, with the amount of race meetings on some days, they just wouldn't cope with just one channel, it would have to be across at least 2 channels, just like Australia.They have Sky Thoroughbred Central along with Sky Racing 1 and Sky Racing 2, which covers most of the racing across Australia. There is also Racing.Com which covers racing run by the Victoria Racing Club

Trev

Yes it is certainly hard to fit all the meetings onto one channel especially when there is also Irish , French , USA , Australian as well as some other racing jurisdictions.

RichardCoulter 10-01-2019 10:32

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
What happened to The Racing Channel Den, I remember that too?

trevrpb 10-01-2019 10:47

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35978735)
What happened to The Racing Channel Den, I remember that too?

There was a breakaway group of racecourses, that became RacingUK, and the remainder of the courses eventually became AtTheRaces, (perhaps after initially retaining the RacingChannel name I believe).

RacingUK,now known as RacingTV runs on a subscription model, supposedly with all 'profits' staying within racing

AtTheRaces, now SkySportsRacing, still operates essentially as a non subscription channel, as part of other packages that are available from Sky and Virgin

Trev

denphone 10-01-2019 10:50

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35978735)
What happened to The Racing Channel Den, I remember that too?

That was the one l was talking about Richard as sorry but l should have been more descriptive.

DVD Cinema 11-01-2019 01:54

Re: Coming Soon to Virgin TV (2019)
 
iTunes app would be nice to see on Tivo.

The app is now coming to a few tvs this year.


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