Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Unsurprising. It was diplomatically odd for Bettel to go ahead with Boris’ podium empty alongside his, unless his aim all along was to try to create bad headlines.

Interesting comment from Laura K on twatter:

“Whatever side you are on, having been outside the presser that never happened, it would have been total pandemonium if it had gone ahead - protesters were shouting and chanting as loudly as they could within metres of the podiums.”

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Guy verhofstadt at the LibDems conf.

It’s 4.5 mins in before he starts actually getting down it.

He says Thatcher was a supporter of the Singlemarket, she was. I don’t think was a fan of much else though EU related.

He also says that to compete with India, Russia, USA and China ( that he classes as Empires) we need to be part of the EU, which is tantamount to classing the EU as an Empire.

He says the EU should be reformed but offers no substance to it.



https://youtu.be/8v3xruukans

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Ah, Guy Verhofstwat, former prime minister of a country where going on to become an MEP is quite literally a promotion...

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Well he is comparing them to large nations, none of those are actually Empires, so I think he means it in a different way than we think of Empire.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

There are sound arguments for recognising imperial tendencies in both Russia and China. The USA, on the other hand, will never be forgiven for doing a substantial chunk of the liberation of Western Europe.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Never be forgive by whom?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

By Stop the War types annoyed that WW2 complicates their goodie/badie view of the world I guess.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

A little off-topic but by whom? Putin seems quite ok with it.

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I don't think he was calling them imperialistic in that sense was he? He was make the point of a world of large economic blocs.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Make no mistake, it is a matter of deep national shame in France, and her natural continental allies tend to fall in line on the issue. Not official government policy, obviously, but they properly hate the fact that it was the Anglo-Saxons who got them their countries back, starting in 1944.

I don’t think Putin cares either way what everyone’s take on the liberation of Western Europe is, but Russians generally dislike the way their role in the overall road to victory tends to be glossed over by western historians. They fought harder and shed more blood than anyone.

Mind you, they did try carving up Poland with Hitler and then occupied the whole of Eastern Europe for 40 years on the pretext of needing a buffer zone, so don’t feel too much sympathy for them.

And yes, we’re veering, quite a lot. :D

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Ah, France - fair enough...

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Important to further appreciate that his first language is not English.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Has Bettel done the impossible and reunite the Tories.... this from Churchill’s grandson tonight:

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Not veer further but it's worth noting the French generally have a lot of respect for the American/British veterans and fallen of WW2. There are many examples of local graves of servicemen being maintained in the smaller villages by the locals. There is a story that I tried to Google but I am sure I remember about a French village who craft their own beer and named it after an American who would take beer back and forth to injured soldiers and in turn become somewhat of a legend in the town.

I know there are also programs where French people will visit and lay flowers at the graves of soldiers whose families can't visit.

I am not sure how you can measure the degree to which 'hate the fact that it was the Anglo-Saxons who got them their countries back' and I am sure Charles de Gaulle probably has something to do with it - he usually does - but it's less evident there is anything but respect for the soldiers themselves.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Utmost respect for the soldiers, yes, and actually respect for the British school system that still busses kids over there to see the Allied cemeteries. But at the top of officialdom there’s always been a quiet embarrassment that they owe so much to the Anglosphere. It would be overstating it to say it drives policy, but as an undercurrent of prejudice it is a factor.