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OLD BOY 16-09-2019 19:25
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36010339)
That assumes the modified agreement isn’t just TM’s deal with fresh lipstick.
My firm belief is that Brexiteers will still see it as a pig.

nomadking 16-09-2019 19:41
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36010327)
It's evident no new arrangements have been offered regarding the N.I. Border. Boris is wanting the EU to capitulate.

You say Boris is a chicken, but he is certainly playing chicken.

He obviously thinks he has some way to circumnavigate the Benn Bill, no doubt that is what he went to the EU with, and no new deal.
The EU thought they could get the UK to capitulate. Parliament said NO on 3 occasions. What they would say "Yes" to is anybody's guess. There is no single answer to that.


Other than Remain, what other deal could he have put to the EU? Even then the EU would put a whole host of extra conditions, that they've long been itching to impose on us.

Chris 16-09-2019 19:43
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36010339)
That assumes the modified agreement isn’t just TM’s deal with fresh lipstick.
It might be. If the EU is going to agree to it, it quite possibly has to be. But I suspect anyone seen voting down any deal Boris puts to Parliament - any deal at all - is at risk of electoral evisceration. Will the electorate really listen patiently to earnestly delivered excuses about how bad this Brexit would be for Britain, or faux-outraged demands that Boris has to go back to Brussels and bring home an altogether different Brexit? Would the irresistible cry not then be, “well, if you think you can do better, agree to an election and campaign for the right to try”?

Much does perhaps hang on what strategy No.10 has for dealing with the Benn Act, but if they have something even plausible, or if Boris comes back from Brussels with a deal (even May 2.0), then I think Corbyn is totally boxed in.

nomadking 16-09-2019 19:52
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36010299)
Here I thought the right to peaceful protest was something key in a democracy.
Tell that to Labour.
Link
Quote:
Headlines about an 82-year old Jewish escapee from the Nazis being manhandled out of Labour conference for daring to yell "nonsense" at the foreign secretary is probably not the way Tony Blair wanted to end this rally. But, for many regular conference visitors, this was far from a surprise.
Ever-tightening security and a distinctly intolerant attitude towards "interruptions", as the prime minister called them, meant this was a headline waiting to happen.
There have been a few examples of it in the recent past.
Most notably, the prime minister was mid-speech last year when a hunting protester attempted a freestyle heckle only to be instantly grabbed by "burly bouncers" and helped to the exit.

No-one who was there will forget the incongruity of the prime minister telling the man he was lucky to live in a free society where such things were allowed - just as he was being bundled out of the hall surrounded by stewards.

jfman 16-09-2019 19:58
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36010352)
Tell that to Labour.
Link
Nice diversionary tactic. Two wrongs don't make a right.:)

Chris 16-09-2019 19:59
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Gosh, the Blair years, when the Labour leadership merely hated Walter Wolfgang for spoiling their press coverage, rather than for being a Jew. I never thought I’d say it but the current lot make Blair look positively benign.

---------- Post added at 19:59 ---------- Previous post was at 19:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36010353)
Nice diversionary tactic. Two wrongs don't make a right.:)
I’m still not convinced by the arguments that say Boris was wrong to refuse to hold a press conference with a baying mob as a backdrop. Why should he?

jfman 16-09-2019 20:03
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
By not even trying he leaves himself open to accusations he is trying to avoid press scrutiny. I accept that folk won't agree with me on this, that's the nature of discussion on here!

Chris 16-09-2019 20:07
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36010356)
By not even trying he leaves himself open to accusations he is trying to avoid press scrutiny. I accept that folk won't agree with me on this, that's the nature of discussion on here!
I accept that his opponents will say that, because they would do, wouldn’t they ... but given the specific circumstances it really doesn’t wash, does it. But even if you insist it does wash, all the baying mob has actually achieved for its self- indulgent road trip, is to have given Boris a way out of a difficult press conference. Rather counter productive really.

jfman 16-09-2019 20:09
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Those who support him would say exactly what you do though. For me, that doesn't wash. It makes the protestors look worse and Boris look statesmanlike if he perseveres and remains reasonable. He's there to get a deal, with a democratic mandate to leave after all...

nomadking 16-09-2019 20:18
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36010356)
By not even trying he leaves himself open to accusations he is trying to avoid press scrutiny. I accept that folk won't agree with me on this, that's the nature of discussion on here!
What press scrutiny? If you're prevented from saying anything, there is nothing to scrutinise. They weren't there to listen.

Sephiroth 16-09-2019 20:20
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36010294)
The Hulk runs scared of protesters and leaves the PM of Luxembourg to upstage him.
You mean renta-mob? And who the hell were they?

Plus what was it the Lux PM said about the need for the EU to build an empire, while, I think it was Verhofstadt, said how ridiculous it was that the UK wanted to go back to the days of empire, which were over.

jfman 16-09-2019 20:21
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36010360)
What press scrutiny? If you're prevented from saying anything, there is nothing to scrutinise. They weren't there to listen.
That’s a rather obtuse, but not unexpected, way you have interpreted Boris not attending a press conference that had journalists at it.

Chris 16-09-2019 20:23
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36010358)
Those who support him would say exactly what you do though. For me, that doesn't wash. It makes the protestors look worse and Boris look statesmanlike if he perseveres and remains reasonable. He's there to get a deal, with a democratic mandate to leave after all...
I sincerely doubt Boris’ statesman-like posture would be what you would be drawing attention to, had this evening’s news been full of images of him having to raise his voice to be heard over an anti-Brexit protest. ;). However ... what’s done is done.

What do you make of BoJo’s interview with Laura Kuenssberg? He has gone out of his way to repeat his explicit pledge to get the UK out on 31 October (i gave up counting after about the 8th mention of it in the transcript) while consistently refusing to be drawn on Kuenssberg’s chosen wording about ‘sneaking around’ the law. Do you think it’s hubris, or are you concerned that the Benn Act may not actually achieve what its supporters intended it to?

Mick 16-09-2019 20:26
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
UK Supreme Court release information on timing and other information... Has a nice link for Case by Case Arguments, which the SC Justices would have reviewed by now.... Looks like a three day affair.

https://www.supremecourt.uk/brexit/index.html

nomadking 16-09-2019 20:26
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36010362)
That’s a rather obtuse, but not unexpected, way you have interpreted Boris not attending a press conference that had journalists at it.
If you're prevented from saying anything, then there is nothing that can be scrutinised. What is complicated or obtuse about that?


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