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-   -   Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

lucevans 17-06-2008 22:25
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I've just had an e-mail from Virgin Media asking for feedback on a potential new service they are thinking of offering; online storage of personal files (photos, music, videos, backup files).
I don't usually respond to such messages, but I thought it would be a good opportunity to let them know that I would not use any such service if they launch Phorm/Webwise, for the specific reason that once such snooping was underway, I would have absolutely no faith in the security or privacy of my personal data transmitting across or stored on their network.
It's a minor side issue, I know, but in the words of the great satan of supermarkets, "every little helps" - perhaps if enough people cite Phorm as a reason not to trust such services, it'll come to the attention of policymakers at VM.

AlexanderHanff 17-06-2008 22:29
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by serial (Post 34577767)
I'd recommend that the best route to the main entrance is from the barbican tube, but go right to the end of Beech street and turn right as per the map. The other routes involve going through the labyrinth.

Is it worth staying until 5?
Well the finishing time is not absolute, but I expect I will still be there until 5ish so people are welcome to protest all day or come at different times of the day which are most convenient for them.

I will update the event page in a little while with the extra info you have added.

Thanks

Alexander Hanff

rogerdraig 17-06-2008 22:53
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucevans (Post 34577799)
I've just had an e-mail from Virgin Media asking for feedback on a potential new service they are thinking of offering; online storage of personal files (photos, music, videos, backup files).
I don't usually respond to such messages, but I thought it would be a good opportunity to let them know that I would not use any such service if they launch Phorm/Webwise, for the specific reason that once such snooping was underway, I would have absolutely no faith in the security or privacy of my personal data transmitting across or stored on their network.
It's a minor side issue, I know, but in the words of the great satan of supermarkets, "every little helps" - perhaps if enough people cite Phorm as a reason not to trust such services, it'll come to the attention of policymakers at VM.

lol would have to agree with you on that ;)

mark777 17-06-2008 22:54
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phormwatch (Post 34577575)
Hey! What a good idea: Added 'Stop Phorm/Webwise Spyware' to my user agent string.

Firefox users, do type: about:config in the address bar and search for 'agent'.
Could we use this for a URL to a page aimed at webmasters?

Would they look it up?

Privacy_Matters 17-06-2008 23:00
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Virgin Customers

Anyone else experiencing strain on your connection (no stm)? Also anyone else notice a change to their ubr?

Also, interesting topic in the NG Feedback thread - a senior VM Employee has shown his head, which only seems to happen when something is hinted at.

Alex

I'll get that sent to you tomorrow, pm me you email please.

icsys 17-06-2008 23:07
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davethejag (Post 34577690)
I did not add the Virgin web address as I thought that it was directly linked to my phone call which if you click on it now seems to have been the case!

http://survey.ccsurvey.com/virg0701a...634252554acuyg

Dave.
Was hoping it was generic. Thanks anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Privacy_Matters
Virgin Customers

Anyone else experiencing strain on your connection (no stm)? Also anyone else notice a change to their ubr?

Also, interesting topic in the NG Feedback thread - a senior VM Employee has shown his head, which only seems to happen when something is hinted at.
Yes, the connection has been frustratingly slow lately, and I am definitely not STM'ed.
Remind me how to check my UBR.... OK sorted.

davethejag 17-06-2008 23:32
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Privacy_Matters (Post 34577846)
Virgin Customers

Anyone else experiencing strain on your connection (no stm)? Also anyone else notice a change to their ubr?

Also, interesting topic in the NG Feedback thread - a senior VM Employee has shown his head, which only seems to happen when something is hinted at.

Alex

I'll get that sent to you tomorrow, pm me you email please.
Hi, I do not understand the technicalities but yes I am on Virgin and the last few days have been dreadful with pages taking ages to load etc.

Dave.

AlexanderHanff 17-06-2008 23:37
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Is anyone going to bite the bullet and be the first person to post a video to the YouTube Video Petition group I set up? Go on give it a go, you know you want to and it should be a laugh at the very least.

There is some info on how to do it here:

https://nodpi.org/forum/on-topic/you...-group/page-1/

I will try to get one done by the end of the week and would have done one already but I am so damn busy with everything else I just haven't had a chance.

I would love to see what people come up with, I suspect many will be quite amusing and it would add a bit of fun to an otherwise very serious topic.

So go on, give it a go.

Once some start to appear I will add them to the new site in rotation using the YouTube video API.

Alexander Hanff

bluecar1 17-06-2008 23:45
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davethejag (Post 34577882)
Hi, I do not understand the technicalities but yes I am on Virgin and the last few days have been dreadful with pages taking ages to load etc.

Dave.
been the same on bt the last week, getting intermittent page not found errors, refresh and it comes in, or pages hang part loaded then refresh and come in quick,

anyone on talk talk ? or others to see if this is bt,vm,tt only?

peter

just had one of those errors as i posted this

davethejag 17-06-2008 23:51
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Hi All, Anybody signed up to Hot UK Deals care to enlighten a few people?

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/20079...f-contract-ge/

Dave.

Privacy_Matters 17-06-2008 23:51
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Peter

I've noticed that my ubr had changed several times during today. (sorry not noted [slaps face very hard]).

Keep an eye out for it.

Sammy

wecpc 18-06-2008 00:02
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34577897)
been the same on bt the last week, getting intermittent page not found errors, refresh and it comes in, or pages hang part loaded then refresh and come in quick,

anyone on talk talk ? or others to see if this is bt,vm,tt only?

peter

just had one of those errors as i posted this
I am getting the same problems and I am on O2 (Non LLU) but I am still using the BT/Yahoo home page on IE7 as I have got used to the layout as I have everything to hand which I use regularly. I did download and install FF 2.0 but I did not like it and in desperation I even tried the Beta 1 of IE8 but that would not work at all, so I went back to IE7. Maybe I should try FF 3.0 which should be out by now.

Colin

Wildie 18-06-2008 00:05
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
web pages last week was blank untill a refresh and some even timing out, also notice the trace routes are different again compared to last week and the one before that less hops now last week more hops inside the bt network.

phormwatch 18-06-2008 00:30
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
>Could we use this for a URL to a page aimed at webmasters?

How do you mean? In what sense?

>Would they look it up?

It would appear in their logs, yes. Anyone who has access to the server logs could/would
see it. Anyone who doesn't probably won't.

bluecar1 18-06-2008 00:33
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildie (Post 34577926)
web pages last week was blank untill a refresh and some even timing out, also notice the trace routes are different again compared to last week and the one before that less hops now last week more hops inside the bt network.

hmm, 6 hops inside BT now rather than 5 last week

am in brum tonight but the hotel is BT as the router is a home hub sat in reception

12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 217.32.86.13
12 ms 12 ms * 217.41.216.1
10 ms 11 ms 11 ms 217.41.172.66
11 ms 12 ms 11 ms 217.41.172.118
13 ms 14 ms 13 ms 217.41.172.54
12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 217.32.85.50

bt playing hide and seek again?
peter

mark777 18-06-2008 00:48
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phormwatch (Post 34577948)
>Could we use this for a URL to a page aimed at webmasters?

How do you mean? In what sense?

>Would they look it up?

It would appear in their logs, yes. Anyone who has access to the server logs could/would
see it. Anyone who doesn't probably won't.
What I meant was if webmasters saw a string like :-

"http://WhyPhormIsBadForWebsites,com/"

In the logs, would they be likely to visit it? If so, that site could explain the issues from a siteowners point of view. e.g. copyright, takes people to competitors etc.

It would be a very easy way to spread the word.

Wildie 18-06-2008 01:13
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34577950)
hmm, 6 hops inside BT now rather than 5 last week

am in brum tonight but the hotel is BT as the router is a home hub sat in reception

12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 217.32.86.13
12 ms 12 ms * 217.41.216.1
10 ms 11 ms 11 ms 217.41.172.66
11 ms 12 ms 11 ms 217.41.172.118
13 ms 14 ms 13 ms 217.41.172.54
12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 217.32.85.50

bt playing hide and seek again?
peter
I`ll see your 6 and raise 7:D
3 25 ms 25 ms 23 ms 217.47.73.13
4 26 ms 25 ms 24 ms 217.47.73.170
5 25 ms 25 ms 24 ms 217.41.176.17
6 24 ms 25 ms 24 ms 217.41.176.114
7 25 ms 25 ms 24 ms 217.41.176.58
8 25 ms 25 ms 25 ms 217.47.110.50
9 26 ms 24 ms 25 ms 217.32.171.233

phormwatch 18-06-2008 03:10
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34577955)
What I meant was if webmasters saw a string like :-

"http://WhyPhormIsBadForWebsites,com/"

In the logs, would they be likely to visit it? If so, that site could explain the issues from a siteowners point of view. e.g. copyright, takes people to competitors etc.

It would be a very easy way to spread the word.
Well, yes, possibly. Perhaps the more curious admins might. It's not a way to reach a huge audience, but we may a few dozen people interested that way.

popper 18-06-2008 04:53
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34576735)
I like to think of them as my very own "Smoking Man" like the dude in the X-Files who is always helping Fox Mulder.

Alexander Hanff
lets just hope he/she doesnt become "TheWickerMan"
on the sacrifical alter to DPi Interception and the persuit of profit and power at ANY COST (as long as its not theirs).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wic...281973_film%29

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...dsUpraised.jpg

---------- Post added at 04:53 ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo (Post 34576741)
Googling for "Ertugrul" to find out about connections with the Times.

Nothing found yet but have found an interesting article from the NY Times in 1999. Apologies if this has already been posted amongst the 605 pages already.

Lifetimes of Memories Preserved on CD-ROM's by Kent
Quote:
The company, Life.com, has recently released a CD-ROM called My Life that encourages people to assemble their memories, thoughts and long-held secrets into a multimedia memoir.

My Life asks people to select a electronic cards from 230 categories, like ''Creativity'' or ''As a child.'' Each card poses questions that range from practical to probing. One asks: ''What is the flat-out stupidest thing you have ever done?''

Quote:
''We went through a lot of research to make the questions interesting in and of themselves,'' said Kent Ertugrul, the company's founder
interesting,no matter what cash/power generating idea's he dreams up over the years, it always seems to come back to collecting other peoples secrets and personal data for his own nefarious use.

you might start wondering what kind of private and personal infomation he managed to get out of all those rich people that took his old fly in a fighter jet business plan.

Anonymouse 18-06-2008 06:53
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popper (Post 34577450)
Yes, the Irish really did the whole of Europe a big favour there - good show!

This isn't quite OP, because DPI threatens our freedom re privacy and the Lisbon Treaty threatens our freedom to self-govern...however badly.

warescouse 18-06-2008 07:50
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Alex, PM

bluecar1 18-06-2008 08:14
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
very worrying development in sweden

http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?.../06/17/0126243

sweden are looking for sweeping power to tap any communications that crosses their border (E-mail, fax, telephone, web, SMS, etc. 24/7) WITHOUT A WARRANT

there is another article today "understanding privacy" may be of interest as well

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/17/1857256

icsys 18-06-2008 08:48
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34578019)
very worrying development in sweden

http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?.../06/17/0126243

sweden are looking for sweeping power to tap any communications that crosses their border (E-mail, fax, telephone, web, SMS, etc. 24/7) WITHOUT A WARRANT
That news actually broke two weeks ago but was not picked up on by the mainstream media.
Much the same as Phorm wasn't picked up on by the mainstream media over here. Until the anti-phorm drum was beaten loudly.
Strange coincidences? Government hush hush tactics? Conspiracy theories?

Privacy_Matters 18-06-2008 09:24
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Pete

Check the details below, are these Dephormation Cookies? They look different, Pete (VM Connection for both):

(From VM NG)
>uid
>RespectMyPrivacy033322||
>a.webwise.net
>/services/
>Any type of connection
>08 January 3000 00:00:00

(from my PC)
a.webwise.net

Name: uid
Content: RespectMyPrivacy852219||
Host: a.webwise.net
Path: /services/
Send for: any type of connection
Expires: 01 January 2038 00:00:00

Have you changed the format with the latest release?

BetBlowWhistler 18-06-2008 09:29
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
More slogans..

BT's 'War on Privacy'!
Just say no.

Defend your right to Privacy!
Stop BT/Phorm!

K*ntK*ntK*nt Entrugal
Take your 30 pieces of silver and F*ck off!
<ok this one was a joke>

Webwise is Spyware!

just saw this on the front page of bbc news for England
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7460270.stm

Privacy_Matters 18-06-2008 09:29
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildie (Post 34577926)
web pages last week was blank untill a refresh and some even timing out, also notice the trace routes are different again compared to last week and the one before that less hops now last week more hops inside the bt network.
I'm having alot of blank pages too. Some will load with a refresh, some won't!!!

SelfProtection 18-06-2008 09:57
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Privacy_Matters (Post 34578053)
I'm having alot of blank pages too. Some will load with a refresh, some won't!!!


I have a question about Web Browser Operation.

What Really happens when a Browser receives a 307 relocate request & the relocated Site is blocked either in the Hosts File or a Firewall?

Does the Browser repeat the request for the Original WebSite or retry on the 307 relocate, if it is the Original Website then the Webwise System may have a real problem; how do they stop looping if the cookie option is no longer being used to test for it?

I was wondering whether this could be the cause of many reports of Routers re-syncing & more rst commands in the past couple of weeks?

Wild Oscar 18-06-2008 10:01
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34578019)
very worrying development in sweden

http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?.../06/17/0126243

sweden are looking for sweeping power to tap any communications that crosses their border (E-mail, fax, telephone, web, SMS, etc. 24/7) WITHOUT A WARRANT
It seems strange there is nothing on the RELAKKS site about this, since they are based in Sweden you would think they would be aware of it!

Quote:
Legal
RELAKKS is a company incorporated in Sweden. The service is basically a Swedish broadband subscription offered over the Internet. This means that the legal framework mainly consists of the The Electronic Communications Act 2003 389.

What will this mean if:
· Swedish authorities or,
· Other organization or individuals demands access to information protected by RELAKKS?

RELAKKS Safe Surf enjoys the strongest legal protection possible under Swedish Law because of the service type (pre-paid flat-rate service). This means that RELAKKS do not have to keep an ordinary customer database (to be able handle transactions etc.). This is of importance if forced to hand over information.

If Swedish authorities can prove beyond reasonable doubt that they have a case for demanding subscription information from RELAKKS (they have to be of the opinion that if convicted the user will be imprisoned – fined not enough). .

RELAKKS then have to hand over the subscription information entered by you (but that’s all). RELAKKS do not store any subscribtion information about you except what you entered yourself when signing up for the RELAKKS Safe Surf service.

For Swedish authorities to force RELAKKS to hand over “traffic data” including your RELAKKS IP at a specific point in time, they will have to prove a case with the minimum sentence of two years imprisonment.

Regarding inquires from other parties than Swedish authorities RELAKKS will never hand over any kind of information.

The combination Swedish high-tech encryption and the strongest legal protection give you true access to Internet, safer and speedier then ever before.

bluecar1 18-06-2008 10:08
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelfProtection (Post 34578060)
I have a question about Web Browser Operation.

What Really happens when a Browser receives a 307 relocate request & the relocated Site is blocked either in the Hosts File or a Firewall?

Does the Browser repeat the request for the Original WebSite or retry on the 307 relocate, if it is the Original Website then the Webwise System may have a real problem; how do they stop looping if the cookie option is no longer being used to test for it?

I was wondering whether this could be the cause of many reports of Routers re-syncing & more rst commands in the past couple of weeks?

if you are on about home routers, look at http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?.../06/07/1727240
peter

jtechs 18-06-2008 10:19
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phormwatch (Post 34577980)
Well, yes, possibly. Perhaps the more curious admins might. It's not a way to reach a huge audience, but we may a few dozen people interested that way.
what about btweblies.com ?? I was bored so I made a site. nothing really.

SelfProtection 18-06-2008 10:37
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34578070)
if you are on about home routers, look at http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?.../06/07/1727240
peter
Not really, for instance my ADSL Router does not crash, it just re-syncs for a connection every so often more & more over the last couple of weeks.

The only change on reconnection is a new WWW IP address.

I've been using the beta SP3 for months & this problem did not start until a couple of weeks ago.

This is why I asked about details of how a Web Browser handles aborted 307 requests?

Florence 18-06-2008 10:41
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Brown seems to either not understand civilian liberties or chooses to not understand.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06...n_ippr_speech/

davews 18-06-2008 11:36
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelfProtection (Post 34578060)
I have a question about Web Browser Operation.

What Really happens when a Browser receives a 307 relocate request & the relocated Site is blocked either in the Hosts File or a Firewall?

Does the Browser repeat the request for the Original WebSite or retry on the 307 relocate, if it is the Original Website then the Webwise System may have a real problem; how do they stop looping if the cookie option is no longer being used to test for it?

I was wondering whether this could be the cause of many reports of Routers re-syncing & more rst commands in the past couple of weeks?
If you block webwise.net etc in your host file so that it points to 127.0.0.1 then the redirect will try and access that and it will end there. Depending on your browser you will either get a message that the page is not available or a blank page. Effectively it will stop your browsing stone dead, you will go nowhere, it will not retry. You will get a similar effect if you try blocking in your software firewall.

It has nothing to do with routers resynching though, they will be doing this because you have a noisy line or whatever. Phorm hopefully has no way of resetting your router...

Privacy_Matters 18-06-2008 11:47
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Phorm Contingency Plan

Right Guys

Time to set in motion a real plan to aid people if Phorm gets rolled out.

I propose that a webpage is created to cover the fundamentals of dealing with contracts; OFT; etc, and a guide to get out of of contracts, including reimbursement of advance payments.

Who is with me on this?

bluecar1 18-06-2008 11:55
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Privacy_Matters (Post 34578120)
Phorm Contingency Plan

Right Guys

Time to set in motion a real plan to aid people if Phorm gets rolled out.

I propose that a webpage is created to cover the fundamentals of dealing with contracts; OFT; etc, and a guide to get out of of contracts, including reimbursement of advance payments.

Who is with me on this?
sounds like a good idea, bt's main arguement with me at the moment is they do not see the change to the privacy clause as a material change so not reason to break the contract, if we can get a legal opinion on that it would be a good start

I am trying to get exact wording changes out of BT but they are resisting at the moment which leads me to suspect they are still rewording or they have something to hide as there may be more changes elsewhere in the contract we have not noticed yet

does anyone have a full copy of the T's and C's of last year they can PM me as i have access to software that does a nice document compare

peter

Privacy_Matters 18-06-2008 12:08
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34578125)
sounds like a good idea, bt's main arguement with me at the moment is they do not see the change to the privacy clause as a material change so not reason to break the contract, if we can get a legal opinion on that it would be a good start

I am trying to get exact wording changes out of BT but they are resisting at the moment which leads me to suspect they are still rewording or they have something to hide as there may be more changes elsewhere in the contract we have not noticed yet

does anyone have a full copy of the T's and C's of last year they can PM me as i have access to software that does a nice document compare

peter
Nevermind T&Cs

You are protected by Consumer Statutory Rights. The indepth details can be found on (and linked from) the OFT Website.

In a Nutshell, Companies like BT must ensure that Contracts do not contain unfair clauses. It should be noted that an unfair clause is determined by the Customer, and ratified (in most cases) by the OFT - rendering BT powerless, ie they cannot claim that you feel the contract is not fair, contrary to your own feelings.

In cases like this, your Consumer Statutory Rights take precedence over ANY contract, therefore you will have the right to leave without penalty. Also, Companies like BT will then face Punitive action.

You should note, T&Cs ARE NOT THE CONTRACT!!!

BetBlowWhistler 18-06-2008 13:24
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davews (Post 34578113)
If you block webwise.net etc in your host file so that it points to 127.0.0.1 then the redirect will try and access that and it will end there. {snip}..
What about if they use an IP block that doesn't have reverse lookup configured in the dns? That wouldn't get caught by your hosts file unless you did it by IP address.

vicz 18-06-2008 14:06
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Hot news in El Reg

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06...horm_meetings/

SelfProtection 18-06-2008 14:19
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BetBlowWhistler (Post 34578199)
What about if they use an IP block that doesn't have reverse lookup configured in the dns? That wouldn't get caught by your hosts file unless you did it by IP address.
That's correct the hosts file can be bypassed by using the Real IP address & my router is not being reset the line sync drops, particularly when I visit the BT Forum to view the posts & my router logs the error and reconnects.

My line is in no way noisy it is above 4000/400 & there is nothing else connected to the line.

NTLVictim 18-06-2008 14:34
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicz (Post 34578218)
Bootnote from that article;

"
We tried to obtain an interview today with Andrew Knight via a direct email approach. A Home Office press officer called soon after to say that "I'm not impressed by that... you [El Reg] do not do that, you come through us. If you do you will not get any response [at all to your queries]".
We asked if it was Home office policy to threaten journalists with excommunication if they try talking to senior civil servants. "No," she said. "It's just the way it is.""


Which part of "Civil", and "servant" doesn't she understand?

I pay her wages, I want her fired.

Wildie 18-06-2008 14:40
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTLVictim (Post 34578231)
Bootnote from that article;

"
We tried to obtain an interview today with Andrew Knight via a direct email approach. A Home Office press officer called soon after to say that "I'm not impressed by that... you [El Reg] do not do that, you come through us. If you do you will not get any response [at all to your queries]".
We asked if it was Home office policy to threaten journalists with excommunication if they try talking to senior civil servants. "No," she said. "It's just the way it is.""


Which part of "Civil", and "servant" doesn't she understand?

I pay her wages, I want her fired.
wonder whats going to be said in the meeting this week with more dirt found.

Horace 18-06-2008 14:43
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Privacy_Matters (Post 34578120)
Phorm Contingency Plan

Right Guys

Time to set in motion a real plan to aid people if Phorm gets rolled out.

I propose that a webpage is created to cover the fundamentals of dealing with contracts; OFT; etc, and a guide to get out of of contracts, including reimbursement of advance payments.

Who is with me on this?
My contingency plan is to riing up VM and cancel. No web page needed. If this gets implemented then VM along with Phorm don't give a hoot about legalities ergo you can forget about contracts and the OFT.

Privacy_Matters 18-06-2008 14:57
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horace (Post 34578236)
My contingency plan is to riing up VM and cancel. No web page needed. If this gets implemented then VM along with Phorm don't give a hoot about legalities ergo you can forget about contracts and the OFT.
I agree, but there will be folk who would want to protect their month in advance, and be scared of being liable for the remaining contract, which could amount to hundreds.

I would just like to see somewhere created where we can protect everyone, and everyone can see how shallow T&Cs and contracts really are.

Sammy

popper 18-06-2008 15:15
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicz (Post 34578218)
well it is wednesday and statistically speaking, Wednesday Exclusive News Items seems to effect the (Phorm/BT)stock price far greater than other days :angel:

Florence 18-06-2008 15:16
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
If everyone regardless of being opt-in or out goes by profiler then the alterations tot he privacy or T&C to allow this would be at the dtriment of the user who asked to not be included in the phorm saga.. Trading standards OFCOM cause as much stink as you can they normally take the hint and release you in the end..

Anonymouse 18-06-2008 15:45
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florence (Post 34578087)
Brown seems to either not understand civilian liberties or chooses to not understand.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06...n_ippr_speech/
Oh, good grief. Public support for the ID card scheme does not "remain strong" - there is no bloody support for that absurdity except in his fevered imagination. Terrorism is not as much of a threat as he's making out; it's just an excuse. None of this crap was necessary in the IRA days. The real threat is this blinkered government which is deliberately ignoring its own people - not realising that it's gonna cost 'em next year. The way things are going, I might actually vote for the first time since 1997, and if I do I will not be voting Labour!

"Citizens are not alarmed by the government's demands for biometric data"? The hell we aren't! The fact that people use such data to secure their laptops is irrelevant, because that is an example of the citizen using his/her own biometric data for his/her own, private purposes, with the data remaining firmly under its owner's control. That has nothing whatsoever to do with bloody ID cards! And he's further shot himself in the foot by using the word "demand". I don't take kindly to being told what to do at the best of times; having demands, especially unreasonable ones, imposed on me totally gets on my tits!

CCTV does not "reassure" people - it scares them to death. There is now CCTV in Manchester Victoria station - well, that's standard and even justifiable, you might say. But in the toilets?! I kid you not. Apparently there's been an increase in "indecent acts", whatever that's supposed to mean; I was tempted to find the station master and ask, but I wasn't in the mood to be branded as a subversive rebel because it would have interefered with my purpose for being in Manchester: to do a bit of book shopping.

I'm so reassured that I would like to emigrate and leave what's left of this sorry place to its own devices. If only I could afford it.

smcicr 18-06-2008 16:01
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Just to say 'I'M STILL HERE' - checking in most days to see what's what.

Also - I know MoneySavingExpert has been tried before in terms of awareness but I would suggest - if a legal opinion can be garnered from somewhere - that it would be more receptive to a 'Get out of your [ISP NAME] contract free of charge' article.

They quite often have these articles - written by anyone - referenced on the regular email newsletter (as a good money saving tip) and that has a LOT of recipients...

It plays directly into the site's raison d'etre as it were and to be honest, if any of the potential candidates go ahead with Phorm I don't really care WHY people leave them so long as they do - financial pain is the only readily available way they can be made to reconsider I suspect. Well it's either that or the government / relevant agencies grow a set and do something - so, back to financial pain then...

Just a thought - anyone who IS a lawyer out there?

Ravenheart 18-06-2008 16:04
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicz (Post 34578218)
It's great to see more positive Phorm articles in the Media, now where's our "select a quote" software and we'll see if we can spin something positive on iii to our spyware buddies :)

Florence 18-06-2008 16:11
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymouse (Post 34578270)
Oh, good grief. Public support for the ID card scheme does not "remain strong" - there is no bloody support for that absurdity except in his fevered imagination. Terrorism is not as much of a threat as he's making out; it's just an excuse. None of this crap was necessary in the IRA days. The real threat is this blinkered government which is deliberately ignoring its own people - not realising that it's gonna cost 'em next year. The way things are going, I might actually vote for the first time since 1997, and if I do I will not be voting Labour!

"Citizens are not alarmed by the government's demands for biometric data"? The hell we aren't! The fact that people use such data to secure their laptops is irrelevant, because that is an example of the citizen using his/her own biometric data for his/her own, private purposes, with the data remaining firmly under its owner's control. That has nothing whatsoever to do with bloody ID cards! And he's further shot himself in the foot by using the word "demand". I don't take kindly to being told what to do at the best of times; having demands, especially unreasonable ones, imposed on me totally gets on my tits!

CCTV does not "reassure" people - it scares them to death. There is now CCTV in Manchester Victoria station - well, that's standard and even justifiable, you might say. But in the toilets?! I kid you not. Apparently there's been an increase in "indecent acts", whatever that's supposed to mean; I was tempted to find the station master and ask, but I wasn't in the mood to be branded as a subversive rebel because it would have interefered with my purpose for being in Manchester: to do a bit of book shopping.

I'm so reassured that I would like to emigrate and leave what's left of this sorry place to its own devices. If only I could afford it.
Yes I heard all the toilets in London have CCTV on ADSL but finding proof is harder...

Deko 18-06-2008 16:16
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
this on III

Quote:
Posted by :Armegedon


---------------
so far they have
---------------

Did you know the PageSense invitation page (2006) & the Webwise invitation page were very similar except for the name, I should know I was presented with both!

There are many more facts still to come to light, but we'll see about that if or when it needs to go to Court!
whats this ? i'm pretty sure 2006 trials did not have a invitation page, is armegedon one of our number.


:erm:

AlexanderHanff 18-06-2008 16:46
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34578125)
sounds like a good idea, bt's main arguement with me at the moment is they do not see the change to the privacy clause as a material change so not reason to break the contract, if we can get a legal opinion on that it would be a good start

I am trying to get exact wording changes out of BT but they are resisting at the moment which leads me to suspect they are still rewording or they have something to hide as there may be more changes elsewhere in the contract we have not noticed yet

does anyone have a full copy of the T's and C's of last year they can PM me as i have access to software that does a nice document compare

peter
It doesn't matter if THEY see it as a material change or not, just drop them on the grounds that it is and watch them NOT take you to court. You honestly think BT want someone challenging this under common law in the courts? I think not especially given that the court are bound by the Human Rights Act 1998 and they MUST give a judgement which is compatible with that Act.

So forget what BT are saying they are blowing smoke, if privacy terms change in a contract it IS a material change and BT don't have a leg to stand on. They will however try everything in their power to persuade you not to cancel your contract.

Alexander Hanff

popper 18-06-2008 17:15
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florence (Post 34578251)
If everyone regardless of being opt-in or out goes by profiler, then the alterations to the privacy or T&C to allow this would be at the detriment of the user who asked to not be included in the phorm saga..

Trading standards OFCOM cause as much stink as you can, they normally take the hint and release you in the end..
reference BTGIF (its hard to find in a search)

and lets not forget the Officially released BT diagram GIF for the upcoming trials in my post
10-04-2008, 02:49
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...l#post34524675
clearly shows that YOU will only have one way into the Network and on to the web, and its through the Deep Packet Interception Device.

"ALL HTTP Traffic"

it also makes it perfectly clear (to any County court small claims judge for instance ;) )that if you Opt-out or refuse to be Opted-in, then BT are still trying to force a cookie on to your PC without your consent... and later read and alter its content against your Exress and Explicit refusal to consent or allow it.

"DECLINE : PLACE OPTED-OUT Cookie (No UID)"

Tharrick 18-06-2008 17:23
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
CCTV does not "reassure" people - it scares them to death.
In addition, it really doesn't help. Say I want to go out and hurt somebody for whatever reason (perhaps they look different from me, perhaps I don't like the clothes they're wearing or the music they listen to). All the CCTV does is mean that there's a higher chance that their body will still be warm by the time the police arrive at the scene.

NTLVictim 18-06-2008 17:24
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Home office press office website;

"Please note: the press office deals with enquiries from the media only. Members of the public should phone 020 7035 4848"


Here to help.

AlexanderHanff 18-06-2008 17:33
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
https://nodpi.org/2008/06/18/material-change/

Alexander Hanff

Dephormation 18-06-2008 17:44
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrick (Post 34578343)
In addition, it really doesn't help. Say I want to go out and hurt somebody for whatever reason (perhaps they look different from me, perhaps I don't like the clothes they're wearing or the music they listen to). All the CCTV does is mean that there's a higher chance that their body will still be warm by the time the police arrive at the scene.
And apparently even when the video is filmed under perfect conditions (such as an unedited public television interview on BBC Breakfast or C4 News for example) the Police won't use it because they don't want to.

I have sought extensive le-le-le-legal advice.

Pete

OldBear 18-06-2008 17:51
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Finally, Phorm story on Neowin's front page: http://www.neowin.net

Comments here: http://www.neowin.net/news/main/08/0...to-home-office

popper 18-06-2008 17:55
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
more than that Alexander, its a "Consumer Contract" and so comes under stricter rules that Always favour the End User in all things (Small Claims, County Court).

you can also be pritty sure (as Vm do all the time) that BT will forward any bogus "remainder of their 12/18 month contracts." to your friendly CRA (Experion,etc) credit file, each and every month without fail.

if your credits not great anyway, you can have fun forcing the CRA's to stop Prosessing your data by removing that right, and force them to use manual records etc,and in effect stops the 3rd party companys adding data to your file, or others accessing it through automated computer systems, see CAG ;)

and so you should also make an Official Final Notice in writing and registered post, to the effect that if they do try and add Bogus charges to your Credit file and so effect your rating etc then you WILL be enforcing your rights in the small claims courts for damages and removal of data (NOT marked as cleared...)etc.

the the CAG CRA threads for how these business accounts departments try and mess with your Credit files, its a disgrace.

you can also Instruct the ISP Data controller to delete in full any and all Personal Data held by them on you the data subject forthwith as the contract is no longer in force and they have no rights to keep Your data after you remove their right to collect,Process,Export,or STORE, on contract cancelation Notice.

SurelyBonds is always a good read.

linked to in this thread
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...887-phorm.html

OldBear 18-06-2008 18:03
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deko (Post 34578294)
this on III

Quote:
Posted by :Armegedon


---------------
so far they have
---------------

Did you know the PageSense invitation page (2006) & the Webwise invitation page were very similar except for the name, I should know I was presented with both!

There are many more facts still to come to light, but we'll see about that if or when it needs to go to Court!
<snip>
Can't be right surely; the tests were done secretly to ensure customers knew nothing about it. Secret trials would not have invited anyone.

Looks like PR spin to me.

OB

Wild Oscar 18-06-2008 18:05
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldBear (Post 34578364)
Finally, Phorm story on Neowin's front page: http://www.neowin.net
And about time too .. I've posted about Phorm before on Neowin, but sadly people over there don't seem to be bothered too much!

Perhaps this will wake them up a bit ..

popper 18-06-2008 19:01
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horace (Post 34578236)
My contingency plan is to riing up VM and cancel. No web page needed.

If this gets implemented then VM along with Phorm don't give a hoot about legalities ergo you can forget about contracts and the OFT.
its up to you OC Horace, but you would be wise to make the effort and make sure you ALWAYS write that final Official "Notice" of termination AND send it registered post.


that WILL cover your bases when it comes to having proof that VM,BT or whoever, were intentionally placing bogus charges on your then non existant bill and forwarding its bogus data to the CRA's (a very dangerous place for them to be..).

that is sure to place these companys in the hot seat if you decide to have some fun with them in the SC courts.

see "moneyclaim" small claims site, and the CAG threads site.

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

Alexander and the gang, you might like to post a comment to
Lilian's (a very nice lady by all accounts)
"
panGloss

A UK-based cyberlaw blog by Lilian Edwards. Specialising in online privacy and security law, cybercrime, online intermediary law (including eBay and Google law), e-commerce, digital property and whatever captures my eye:-) Based at ILAWS, the INstitute for Law and the Web at Southampton
Blog. ;)

it would be so benefitial to readers here to get a few more "personal [but Officially trained] views" from Lilian, and her fully trained peers, students etc
(Without prejudice etc OR a bill is to follow :) OC ;) ), to help us on our way were possible and time permits.

most on my mind to be cleared up one way or the other is, how someone on a lower income might make a court "Injunction" against a named ISP Executive, Board room ,or Upper Manager (to make them personally and/or directly responsible for any DPI for profit law breaking they authorise etc)for instance......

is the small claims court system a real option to these people for instance....
http://blogscript.blogspot.com/2008/06/its-amazing.html

markt50 18-06-2008 19:06
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Hi,

I was off work today and a little bored, so I had another go at an anti Phorm video. It's just under 2 mins long so not as long as my last effort. Just thought I'd share :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vO3T...p;feature=user

Privacy_Matters 18-06-2008 19:16
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popper (Post 34578365)
more than that Alexander, its a "Consumer Contract" and so comes under stricter rules that Always favour the End User in all things (Small Claims, County Court).

you can also be pritty sure (as Vm do all the time) that BT will forward any bogus "remainder of their 12/18 month contracts." to your friendly CRA (Experion,etc) credit file, each and every month without fail.
The most improtant thing to note, is that 3rd Party Organisations are only bought in to do the job that BT are perfectly capable of doing themselves. Thus creating a false debt with the 3rd Party.

The best thing to do, is to write to them and advise the 3rd Party Company that they are in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act...

... they will drop your case like a stone, and you will be left with BT, who will be left in a helpless position. And then you can start quoting your Statutory rights.....

:angel:

AlexanderHanff 18-06-2008 19:25
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markt50 (Post 34578416)
Hi,

I was off work today and a little bored, so I had another go at an anti Phorm video. It's just under 2 mins long so not as long as my last effort. Just thought I'd share :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vO3T...p;feature=user
Very Good :)

You should add it to this YouTube Group:

https://nodpi.org/2008/06/02/youtube...etition-group/

Alexander Hanff

Paul Delaney 18-06-2008 19:53
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldBear (Post 34578375)
Can't be right surely; the tests were done secretly to ensure customers knew nothing about it. Secret trials would not have invited anyone.

Looks like PR spin to me.

OB
Not invites - just the pages

Post by Current User:

http://beta.bt.com/bta/forums/thread...rt=0&start=975

BetBlowWhistler 18-06-2008 20:00
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markt50 (Post 34578416)
Hi,

I was off work today and a little bored, so I had another go at an anti Phorm video. It's just under 2 mins long so not as long as my last effort. Just thought I'd share :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vO3T...p;feature=user
I liked it. Very ominous!

OldBear 18-06-2008 20:13
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markt50 (Post 34578416)
Hi,

I was off work today and a little bored, so I had another go at an anti Phorm video. It's just under 2 mins long so not as long as my last effort. Just thought I'd share :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vO3T...p;feature=user
That's excellent; makes Drayton's video look really amateurish.

These people know nothing about presentation. :D :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Delaney (Post 34578447)
Not invites - just the pages

Post by Current User:

http://beta.bt.com/bta/forums/thread...rt=0&start=975
Got you; thanks for that, Paul. :)

icsys 18-06-2008 20:18
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popper (Post 34578390)
Alexander and the gang, you might like to post a comment to
Lilian's (a very nice lady by all accounts)
"
panGloss

A UK-based cyberlaw blog by Lilian Edwards. Specialising in online privacy and security law, cybercrime, online intermediary law (including eBay and Google law), e-commerce, digital property and whatever captures my eye:-) Based at ILAWS, the INstitute for Law and the Web at Southampton
Blog. ;)

it would be so benefitial to readers here to get a few more "personal [but Officially trained] views" from Lilian, and her fully trained peers, students etc
(Without prejudice etc OR a bill is to follow :) OC ;) ), to help us on our way were possible and time permits.
http://blogscript.blogspot.com/2008/06/its-amazing.html
And whilst discussing mobile phone tracking in shopping centres she references Phorm too...
Quote:
I think it's important here to seperate technophobic squeamishness from real privacy concerns. (This is also not like Phorm where anonymity had been artificially imposed and could easily be "broken". Here the mobile tracking system simply doesn't know your personal phone number or your name.)

Deko 18-06-2008 20:28
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
ahh from BT betaforum webwise

WTF was this page that was seen ?


Quote:
Re: BT Webwise Discussion Thread
Posted: Jun 18, 2008 6:33 PM in response to: Peter N Reply

I wish to make it clear to CableForum posters that this was not a Publicity Stunt

http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/deta...ail&id=4076014

At some time around 18 months to 2 years ago I was presented with a PageSense Invitation, which I immediately closed.

"If I had known the significance of this, I would have copied the data!"

This was probably because I always remove Cookies & other data on leaving my Browser & their system wanted to plant a "Cookie"??

Not everyone complains immediately BT, some take note of unusual occurrences & attempt to slowly form a picture of what is occurring!

CWH 18-06-2008 20:30
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Have just been re-reading Simon Watkin's presentation on fipr.org. No wonder we don't get anything from the Home Office: one of his suggestions is "Government to stand with Industry, on any Human Rights Challenge",and, "Need to Develop route for retention for all Crime....."

No wonder Phorm et al feel so invulnerable.

Colin

AlexanderHanff 18-06-2008 20:30
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deko (Post 34578479)
ahh from BT betaforum webwise

WTF was this page that was seen ?
My suspicion is this was a cock up on the system. BT have verified themselves that the trials were carried out in complete secrecy with the specific purpose of making sure the public did not know anything about it.

Alexander Hanff

Dephormation 18-06-2008 20:57
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markt50 (Post 34578416)
Hi,

I was off work today and a little bored, so I had another go at an anti Phorm video. It's just under 2 mins long so not as long as my last effort. Just thought I'd share :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vO3T...p;feature=user
:tu: Bril.

warescouse 18-06-2008 21:11
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markt50 (Post 34578416)
Hi,

I was off work today and a little bored, so I had another go at an anti Phorm video. It's just under 2 mins long so not as long as my last effort. Just thought I'd share :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vO3T...p;feature=user
:clap::clap::clap:

icsys 18-06-2008 21:21
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markt50 (Post 34578416)
Hi,

I was off work today and a little bored, so I had another go at an anti Phorm video. It's just under 2 mins long so not as long as my last effort. Just thought I'd share :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vO3T...p;feature=user
That is very good...
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/im...es/applaus.gif
You need to get bored more often :D

Ravenheart 18-06-2008 21:21
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
I've just put a poster together, any recommendations on changes welcome :)

Link removed while i fix some typo's on the doc :P

phormwatch 18-06-2008 21:22
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by markt50 (Post 34578416)
Hi,

I was off work today and a little bored, so I had another go at an anti Phorm video. It's just under 2 mins long so not as long as my last effort. Just thought I'd share :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vO3T...p;feature=user
Excellent video, but please correct:

"If your affected" to "If you're affected" at 1:31.

Sorry to sound pedantic, but it's important that we appear professional.

:angel:

markt50 18-06-2008 22:17
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phormwatch (Post 34578562)
Excellent video, but please correct:

"If your affected" to "If you're affected" at 1:31.

Sorry to sound pedantic, but it's important that we appear professional.

:angel:
Oops, thanks for spotting that, I'm a complete :dunce:

Anyway, it's now corrected, unfortunately you can't edit vids once on youtube so here is the new link and I'll pull the old video in a while:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W8cZS-xLOM

antihanff.com 18-06-2008 22:43
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
A lot has been said about being fair, and a lot has been said about not being insulting to others on this forum. I have taken the time to read EVERY post on this thread, including most of the references.

I JUST DONT GET WHAT YOU GUYS ARE ON ABOUT.

Whilst I see that BT and Phorm have been dispicable in the trials by not informing users and totally disregarding the customers interests I don't see why the issue of targeted advertising itself is such a problem to you all.

To be honest I think you are a BUNCH OF BULLIES led by your BULLY MASTER and YOU ARE ALL FOLLOWING YOUR LEADER WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT THIS.

Why do I think that? Well much has been said about not insulting people on this forum but it seems fair game to PERSONALLY insult the few pro-form protestors who post here and bully them off the site.

Many posters have also jumped onto share dealing forums to BULLY the people there.

YOU SHOULD ALL BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF.

If you dont like something then register your displike. But to continue to harass people is harassment under law.

The phorm/webwise system has to be illegal, why should I believe a bunch of ranting amateurs?

You make so much of site owners copyright WELL JUST LOOK AT WHAT ALEX HANFF THINKS BY GOOGLING COPYRIGHT ALEX HANFF.

The law applies when you want it and not when you dont.

HAVENT YOU GOT ANTHING BETTER TO DO WITH YOUR TIME?

DO ANY OF YOU HAVE A JOB?

I cant wait to see 2 or 3 people "protesting" next week.

I cant wait for your undemocratic forum host to delete this post like he did several others judging by the inconsistencies and posts.

To repeat I READ EVERY POST ON THIS FORUM. IT TOOK ME 10 DAY!

I even read most of the references and I cant see what you all on about.

icsys 18-06-2008 22:51
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Judging by your spelling mistakes and grammar, I would suggest that you are of primary school age and, therefore, it is way past your bedtime.

antihanff.com 18-06-2008 22:53
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34578645)
Judging by your spelling mistakes and grammar, I would suggest that you are of primary school age and, therefore, it is way past your bedtime.
As I said BULLY and INSULTS.

Paul Delaney 18-06-2008 22:53
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
@ antihanff.com

You've read all the posts in this thread and you can't see what we're on about?

Is English not your first language by any chance?

AlexanderHanff 18-06-2008 22:57
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antihanff.com (Post 34578646)
As I said BULLY and INSULTS.
Hello HamsterWheel, if you are not him you are certainly one of his.

Alexander Hanff

JackSon 18-06-2008 22:58
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antihanff.com (Post 34578639)
The phorm/webwise system has to be illegal, why should I believe a bunch of ranting amateurs?
So much to pick, but so little time (because I do have a job in which to first have a good nights sleep for). So I will just take one piece of your missive for now, my favourite part.

It does make me smile that you consider the Foundation for Information Policy Research and the Open Rights Group plus all associated academics of the more renkown universities as 'ranting amateurs'.

However, if I am permitted to play devil's advocate and ask you which area of this whole debacle that you don't get? I will admire that, it takes courage to put your hand up and say "I don't understand this, can someone helo me?" More courage than to shun the entire debate beacuse it is either over your grasp, or, worse still, becasue you have vested interests in it succeeding.

So I ask, which will it be, would you like help?

mark777 18-06-2008 23:01
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antihanff.com (Post 34578639)

To repeat I READ EVERY POST ON THIS FORUM. IT TOOK ME 10 DAY!

I even read most of the references and I cant see what you all on about.
It sounds like you need to find a pro-phorm thread in order to be amongst like-minded people. It will take you longer than 10 days to find one though. ;)

Cheers mateybob. Just goes to show that nobody has gone away, we are just waiting to pounce.

JackSon 18-06-2008 23:02
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Actually, that is really impressive thinking about it. He read the entire forum in just 10 days. Impressive, this sites been active for years!

antihanff.com 18-06-2008 23:09
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Delaney (Post 34578647)
@ antihanff.com

You've read all the posts in this thread and you can't see what we're on about?

Is English not your first language by any chance?
Admin Edit (Stuart): Deleted

---------- Post added at 23:08 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackSon (Post 34578657)
So much to pick, but so little time (because I do have a job in which to first have a good nights sleep for). So I will just take one piece of your missive for now, my favourite part.

It does make me smile that you consider the Foundation for Information Policy Research and the Open Rights Group plus all associated academics of the more renkown universities as 'ranting amateurs'.

However, if I am permitted to play devil's advocate and ask you which area of this whole debacle that you don't get? I will admire that, it takes courage to put your hand up and say "I don't understand this, can someone helo me?" More courage than to shun the entire debate beacuse it is either over your grasp, or, worse still, becasue you have vested interests in it succeeding.

So I ask, which will it be, would you like help?
Just try google liberty or civil rights or religious freedom and find how many people out there CLAIM something is ILLEGAL and then find actually all is okay.

---------- Post added at 23:09 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34578656)
Hello HamsterWheel, if you are not him you are certainly one of his.

Alexander Hanff
WHO IS HAMSTER?

Tharrick 18-06-2008 23:10
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Looks like I logged on at exactly the right moment.


Hey, Alex, is this El Reg post about you?

Even if it isn't, this strikes me as a very scientology-esque method - dig out something in somebody's past that might discredit them today, or make something up if you can't find anything. However, it seems that our anti-Hanff here hasn't bothered to really read these articles - like the bits where it states that Alex was actually not involved in the bittorrent stuff aside from paying for the server-space. Not to mention the fact that bittorrent by itself is not illegal.

Stuart 18-06-2008 23:12
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antihanff.com (Post 34578639)
A lot has been said about being fair, and a lot has been said about not being insulting to others on this forum. I have taken the time to read EVERY post on this thread, including most of the references.

I JUST DONT GET WHAT YOU GUYS ARE ON ABOUT.

Whilst I see that BT and Phorm have been dispicable in the trials by not informing users and totally disregarding the customers interests I don't see why the issue of targeted advertising itself is such a problem to you all.
You clearly haven't read all the thread then. Admittedly, at nearly 10,000 posts, I don't blame you.

My particular problems with Phorm (as I have explained a couple of times) are simple. I don't object to them tracking me, as long as the fact that they are doing so is clearly explained (which neither BT nor Phorm have done in the mainstream press) and I can opt in (not out).

No, my problem is that the people behind Phorm have, er, form (look up 121media) for lying to people, and considering that they claim that all the processing is done within your ISP's network, they have an awful lot of hardware installed in Data Centres in countries not known for their Data Protection and Freedom of Information laws (China and Russia). This, combined with the fact that the system actually stores your browsing data for a while before anonymising it (thus ensuring it will attract hackers).

Oh, and I just looked up your IP. Odd how all the Pro phorm people I have seen have BTCentral Ips..

antihanff.com 18-06-2008 23:13
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrick (Post 34578678)
Looks like I logged on at exactly the right moment.


Hey, Alex, is this El Reg post about you?

Even if it isn't, this strikes me as a very scientology-esque method - dig out something in somebody's past that might discredit them today, or make something up if you can't find anything. However, it seems that our anti-Hanff here hasn't bothered to really read these articles - like the bits where it states that Alex was actually not involved in the bittorrent stuff aside from paying for the server-space. Not to mention the fact that bittorrent by itself is not illegal.
Thank you I see I am not the only one against this CAMPAIGN OF TERROR against LEGITIMATE business and INNOCENT SHAREHOLDERS

Tharrick 18-06-2008 23:13
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Oh, and I just looked up your IP. Odd how all the Pro phorm people I have seen have BTCentral Ips..
It's not paranoia if you can actually see the black helicopters hovering outside your window ;)

antihanff.com 18-06-2008 23:15
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharrick (Post 34578682)
It's not paranoia if you can actually see the black helicopters hovering outside your window ;)
DID YOU JUST BREAK THE DATA PROTECTION?

Tharrick 18-06-2008 23:15
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antihanff.com (Post 34578681)
Thank you I see I am not the only one against this CAMPAIGN OF TERROR against innocent business
Ah, an Ertugrul-scale misquote.

Firstly, I'd like to think that I'm on the forefront of this campaign, or at least no more than three ranks back from such, given the amount of writing to MPs, MEPs and the like I've been doing over the past few weeks.
Secondly, if you actually read my post, you'll find that I both point out that anything you can dig out in Alex's past is irrelevant, and also that you're guilty of some major ad hominem here, in the same way as the Church of Scientology.

icsys 18-06-2008 23:16
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antihanff.com (Post 34578681)
Thank you I see I am not the only one against this CAMPAIGN OF TERROR against LEGITIMATE business and INNOCENT SHAREHOLDERS
No one claimed you are alone, although as you are intent on being abusive it is possible you are a loner and seeking attention.

antihanff.com 18-06-2008 23:16
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart C (Post 34578680)
Oh, and I just looked up your IP. Odd how all the Pro phorm people I have seen have BTCentral Ips..
DId you just breach the data protection act you shouldnt be looking at my IP. JAIL!

NewsreadeR 18-06-2008 23:16
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antihanff.com (Post 34578665)
<deleted>

Welcome aboard anti ;)

Struggling to guess the letters on that word in your post though. When I was at school, there would have only been three *'s

Nice to see your reasoned debate though. Very impressed that you have done your homework, and read all the posts in this thread. However, I think personally, you wasted your time, as I really don't think you have understood what the thread was about. Oh well, at least it kept you off the streets for ten days though.

ps - Your domain don't work.

Paul Delaney 18-06-2008 23:16
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antihanff.com (Post 34578665)
<deleted>
I only asked a question - you must be an investor then - they're really touchy?

You sure you're not from ADVFN - they're all foul mouthed there?

Stuart 18-06-2008 23:17
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antihanff.com (Post 34578681)
Thank you I see I am not the only one against this CAMPAIGN OF TERROR against LEGITIMATE business and INNOCENT SHAREHOLDERS

Campaign of terror? Grow up.

antihanff.com 18-06-2008 23:17
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34578687)
No one claimed you are alone, although as you are intent on being abusive it is possible you are a loner and seeking attention.
Just reat inteactive investor thread and see who is being abusive to people? And a few time s on this thread too. One rule for you guys and anyone else bets BULLLIES into SUBMISSION

Privacy_Matters 18-06-2008 23:18
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antihanff.com (Post 34578639)
I cant wait to see 2 or 3 people "protesting" next week.
That would be a great start :) Protesters turning up 3 weeks early :cool:

AlexanderHanff 18-06-2008 23:18
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by antihanff.com (Post 34578681)
Thank you I see I am not the only one against this CAMPAIGN OF TERROR against LEGITIMATE business and INNOCENT SHAREHOLDERS
Oh you are a shareholder! That explains it. You won't get any sympathy from me for not bothering to research your investments before making them and I doubt you will get any sympathy from anyone else here either. If you invested a little more ethically you wouldn't be in the situation you are currently in with an investment in a company which is dying before it has even started.

Alexander Hanff


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