Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

just posted a comment over of LSE

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?ShareTicker=PHRM

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

In response to the ISP and phone wire tapping law, passed in sweden.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Done

Stari-Paul

:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

They're going to set up an https url as well.:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

All good news for us techi people but what about the newer users that will be hijacked without understanding the technical jargon..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"We’re also going to help out making a website about easy encryption - both for your harddrives and your net traffic."

From Peter Sundes' blog, which can be found HERE

Every little helps, everyday the erosion builds, everyday their model fails a little more as the knowledge spreads..:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Interesting will keep an eye on there and link to it on ISPr

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There's also the option to use this free for Personal Use as well.

https://secure.logmein.com/products/...i/download.asp

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"ıt doesn't have to be like this.....
all we need to do is make sure we keep talking."

-Stephen Hawking

Finally got a Mighty Floyd reference in.:D

:notopic: Ok, who can spot the delicious irony relating to the quote I just used?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

could it be stephen hawking uses a computer to synthesize speech as he can't talk himself?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If BTPhorm go ahead and many of us turn to encryption I think we should run a pool on when some clueless minister (Jacqui?) suggests that encryption should be outlawed on the net.

The problem for HMG is that it would interfere with data retention policies. My records would probably show that I only ever visit one site. My encrypted proxy - in another country.

Yet another reason for HMG to outlaw Phorm and the other parasites.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Nope.

I quoted it because we just need to keep spreading the word, but there is real irony there, trust me.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Isn't Stepehn Hawking the person who passed with honours and has an illness something not sure if it was motor something seem to remember him in the news a lot.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

He has motor neurone disease and despite this holds Newtons chair as the Lucasian professor of mathematics at Cambridge, he is regarded as the greatest scientific mind since Newton or Einstein.

I like his books.

We haven't found the irony yet...sorry mods, just a bit of morale boosting.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Dear Cable Forum,

Since I spoke in the Lords about data protection, I have learnt more about the gaps in the regulations covering organisations such as Phorm and their webwise system. I agree that there are serious questions to be answered about information interception through ISPs and its implications for web users and website owners.

I am grateful to several forum members for contributing to my understanding of the next steps that can be taken in legislation.

Data protection and privacy are increasingly under threat in this country, partly because the internet is awash with people’s personal information. The general public has, like me, a pretty basic understanding of the technology, so it has been especially useful to have such a lively correspondence following the debate. Thank you for working hard to bring to light the issues involved in this case. While the Lords may not seem to you to be a natural place to debate questions of online data security, I assure you that the Liberal Democrats in both Houses will work hard to ensure the better regulation of data protection both off- and on-line.

Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer
Liberal Democrat Home Affairs Spokesperson

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

More worrying is that it seems to be the only place that debate is taking place.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: :clap:
Reading this sent shivers down my spine I suddenly feel we are getting somewhere, I know things move slowly but a light has just started to shine.

Many thanks for posting this and if you are the lady my gratitude for coming here to post we do appreciate all who are willing to listen..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Welcome to the forum and thank you for keeping an open mind about the issue.

Your posting here is greatly appreciated.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

HI and welcome and what a great first post.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks for that, what a nice day this is turning out to be:clap::clap::clap:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I like her already...and Welcome, Sue!:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Many people believe that there is already sufficient legislation for this to be stopped.

For some reason, it's just not being used.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I guess the lady is too modest to post it herself: http://suemiller.org.uk/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome:

Thank you for taking the time to come along here and post; your interest in this matter is most welcome. :clap::clap:

OB

btw. I've never waved a placard at a baroness before. :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It was posted by Sue Miller I appreciate the fact Sue came to cable forum to post the reply for us instead of somone posting it or summerising the reply.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It was used in a BT advert on the telly, I believe. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: Sue,

Like the other contributors have said, I'd like to thank you for taking on board the concerns of everyone, and for coming here to make your post. It really is refreshing to see someone taking on board the implications systems like Phorm's could have and bringing it up in the house of Lords.

Thank you :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thank you for taking your time to post this. And thank you for indicating that you, the Liberal Democrats, are taking onboard our serious concerns.

You should be congratulated on your approach, and I am more confident now that our voices are being heard.

:clap:

Oh and hey - welcome to the debate :D :waving:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

On a sad note I had emailed BT's CEO Ian Livingston
Just had Your message

To: Livingston,I,Ian,CGEC R
Cc:
Subject: Had you considered
Sent: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:19:32 +0100

was deleted without being read on Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:52:35 +0100

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

nothing new there Florence they been trashing loads of emails.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Correct, from 1993...what goes around...bites bad people in the arse!:D

Ridicule is a very effective weapon against this type of "people".

Keep talking..:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: Baroness Sue Miller

;)

thanks for taking my advice in the Fax, and the comment at
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/...8-06-12a.724.5
and posting here.

You are the Very first house of Lords member as far as i Know to post directly to the cable forum Ever, and to such an important subject as this , you are most welcome.

special award required perhaps ;)

given that you are so busy i dont want to scare you off as a one time poster to CF, now that you have posted to this Phorm thread, you will see that every new post here will now find its way to your signed up Email address.

its might be advisable to set a filter (ask your son, or ask here for help, that helping people is CF's main purpose) in your Email client to place all these informative (sometimes off topic but related) posts into a new Phorm Email folder for you to skip through and read at your leisure.

if you decide you dont want to get all these Phorm posts in your email, you can simply click your top left usercp
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/usercp.php

and unsubscribe from the Phorm thread , that stops email notifcation, simple and easy.

you might be wise to read some of it to keep upto date perhaps, if you can find the time.

if the mods here think it might be a good idea, they can also make a new section especially for all your Govt and related friends to come and contribute Directly with us Broadband End Users (its not just cable users here, but everyone that need/ wants help and community).

bypassing all the usual channels (PR ,emails and fax to PA's companies offices HOL, and the other place etc)that just get in the way of realtime understanding, and slow things down way to much for internet users all over the Uk and EU used to near realtime Meassage boards etc.

you could ofcourse just have your friends and Govt colleagues join CF http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/register.php the longest Phorm and related thread anywere :angel:

and start a new CF thread easy enough OC.

hopefully this will find its way to your CF signed up email address, and you will keep your eye on this Cf thread from now on, perhaps even post with your views now and again.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Apologies for triggering all your dephormation warnings, but would anyone care to bet how long the following stays on the website?

http://blog.phorm.com/uncategorized/...ouse-of-lords/

Every time I tried to post a comment to the blog, the anti-bot software stopped me, even though I entered the correct letters. So the option to post a comment is just an e-mail address/IP collecting exercise as far as i'm concerned.

----

On the topic of trials.

Although the police have had, at best, a 'manana' approach to the issue, I wonder how much differently they would handle reports of an ongoing crime?

They might be able to fudge an issue that is in the past, but if someone reports something that is happening now, they risk an awful lot by not investigating.

I wonder if BT is aware of this and I also wonder if they would risk starting a trial that might break their network, just a few weeks before the AGM.

I also suspect that the outgoing chairman (I think the AGM is changeover day) will not risk all the grief on his watch?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Welcome :welcome: Baroness Sue Miller.

You have my full admiration and respect. It is good to know that our grave concerns are being looked into.

Thank you again.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hello Baroness Sue Miller, welcome to the cable forums.

Thank you for taking time to post the response above. It is very, very much appreciated.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have created a wiki for bt, phorm & webwise. feel free to add away.

www.btweblies.com/wiki

Jtech

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.openrightsgroup.org/newsb...rtising-rules/
"
EC to update online commerce and advertising rules

Posted by Richard in Computer Law at June 25th, 2008
Outlaw.com reports:

A new set of consumer contract laws to harmonise the rules that govern online selling across the EU will be proposed this autumn by the European Commission. The EU’s consumer chief also promised fresh guidance on viral adverts and profiling technology."


http://www.out-law.com//default.aspx?page=9208
"
E-commerce laws to be rewritten by European Commission


OUT-LAW News, 25/06/2008

A new set of consumer contract laws to harmonise the rules that govern online selling across the EU will be proposed this autumn by the European Commission. The EU's consumer chief also promised fresh guidance on viral adverts and profiling technology.


Addressing a roundtable on digital issues in London on Friday, European Consumer Commissioner Meglena Kuneva said that while e-commerce is succeeding at national level, cross-border e-commerce is failing to keep pace. The European Commission believes that simpler and better-harmonised consumer laws will boost the sector.

The results of EU surveys among 26,000 consumers and 7,200 businesses were announced by Kuneva on Friday. They show that while a third of the EU's 490 million consumers have bought something online, only seven percent have bought from foreign suppliers.

Of those with web access at home, 56% have bought online; but only 13% have made a cross-border purchase.
"These figures underline how much work we still have to do to boost confidence in the online internal market," said Kuneva.

"

thats a lot of potential Phorm Intercepted datastreams to add to their unlawful "derivative works" for their profit at the direct expense of the end users and their right to privacy and copyright enforcement.

another failed law enforcement as they hope we cant afford the court fees to uphold and enforce our rights in a private case.

Baroness (Sue) we Ordinary End Users, that cant afford real "High Court" Justice costs to get a fair hearing/ruling, need a way to hold these Private companys to account , get real with FOI(Freedom of Information Act) and amend it to include any and all Uk registered Uk companys , make it enforcable in law, make sure that law is acted upon and as least investigated...

your good self, Lord Northesk,the Earl of Erroll, etc, are showing us direct proof that you take these matters seriously, but until theres a real way for the average End users to take steps and set in motion some form of action, a clear path to bring obvious breaches of current law to some form of Investigation, we all loose, except the Executive, Board rooms, and the investors OC.

this Phorm matter as a clear case in point, we the direct End Users effected have got questions asked in the house and the HOL, but look at the responses, its like they are in play group, "(1)its not me, (2)he did it" so you go and ask (2), no, sorry not me, you need to ask (3), you ask (3), nope not us, see (1) ....

round and round the users go, and all the time nothing is investigated,or actioned, we need to stop this NOW, set clear and exact rules and stick to them.

on the off chance ill just ask ;), would your good self, Lord Northesk,the Earl of Erroll and any others you might have access to, like to meet Alexander and the many Effected End Users here that are going to the protest see Alexanders #10000

not to join us in protest OC (unless that is your personal stance and wish,if you have BT Installed in your offices and/or homes and will also be subject to this Phorm Interception Of course dont forget that and tell your peers ;) ) but rather, to take advantage of having face to face Informal chats with Us (non tech and tech alike)and a mutual swapping of information and potential informed idea's while we are all in the same place....

its not often people get down to london but many are making the concerted effort were they can to be there in person, so it seems like your chance to meet many of them there or send a rep to the meeting, book a local room for an after the event , all of you Lords etc, can host your own relaxing roundtable information chat.

and remember, even the people that cant get there in person for whatever reason, travelling costs, time off, disability ,etc, will hopefully get to be there in spirit, and online at least, if the realtime wireless web connections manage to keep up, as we watch any sound and video clips the attendees manage to upload realtime etc.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Excellent post Popper.

I particularly wish to emphasise the following paragraphs from the Out-law.com news story covering the round table meeting in London last Friday June 20th...

Privacy

[European Consumer Commissioner Meglena] Kuneva expressed concern about the targeting of adverts in what might be interpreted as a reference to recent controversy over Phorm, an advertising technology firm.

"If you watch tennis over the internet, you will be targeted with ads for tennis items. If you read about home improvement, chances are that you will receive ads for repair services and new furniture," she said. "But there are some concerns that the amounts of personal data collected over the internet without the awareness of users, let alone their consent, is getting too large and a bit out of control."

"The European Data Protection Supervisor has stated that our current legislation requires explicit consent each time personal data is collected. The reality on internet is far removed from these principles," she said.

Kuneva continued: "Currently many websites offer to click for 'enhanced services'. Is this an informed consent? How many people actually know that this amounts to consent to having their behaviour tracked, to have that data stored and then used commercially? What would be fair terms in an agreement to allow tracking? Publishers currently have privacy policies that allow the installation of tracking devices that are not themselves covered by their privacy policy. Is this a fair term? I believe that informed consent is the central issue that consumer policy must next address."

Yet another person who needs applause for taking this data mining and profiling situation seriously.
But as you say, it is time that those in power who are expected to uphold the laws of the land stopped this tail chasing and started to apply the existing legislation thereby protecting peoples on-line privacy.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Also in there Popper :-

EDIT : icsys, you beat me to it :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

would it be possible to block places that buy ad space for their goods on phorm,
or a ad blocker to intercept the ad and follow the link and then block it end of.?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The full speech given by Meglena Kuneva, European Consumer Commissioner, can be read here...
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleases...guiLanguage=en (Scroll down the page)
HTML, PDF and downloadable DOC

Worthy of emphasis are the following paragraphs...

"There is current legislation being drafted addressing tracking issues both under the telecommunications package and in the RFID communication. New challenges will come, notably in the context of e-health, social web profiles, and biometric technology."

"It is therefore extremely important that we address the issues in a cross cutting way and that we do it on time. Retrofitting business models that develop on wrong basis is difficult. So the time is really now. Now is the time to strike a balance that allows us to capture the benefit of commercial use of data whilst addressing the concerns related to tracking and privacy."

"Trust is the currency of the on-line world. I want that in the heated debates surrounding privacy, the voice of the consumers is clearly heard. For that reason, I want to step up our work to develop core consumer principles that feed into policy across sectors and technologies delivering a more consistent approach the conditions surrounding tracking and profiling. "


As has been done with Charter and NebuAd in the states... Now is the time for the ICO, Home Office or the EU commission to instruct BT and phorm, or any other ISP/company considering similar user profiling programs, to suspend any trials or implementation while these important privacy concerns can be properly addressed.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This should be possible. Creating an Add-on similar to AdBlockPlus, which includes a script to extract the first part of an ad address ie:

http://www.a.adscum.co.uk/adserver/adprovider/admorecrap/annoyingad.gif can extrapulate http://www.a.adscum.co.uk and add to the Host File.

Anyone care to have a shot at creating?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Report in el reg

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06..._nebuad_pilot/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I would just personally like to thank you for making the effort of posting directly to this forum. I can honestly say I am speechless.

If you would like to get together sometime for a face to face chat about the issues I would be happy oblige, I think it would do a lot of good for the people in both houses to actually listen to the public for a change instead of just being fed PR by Phorm.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You know, that's a very good idea. Once the advertisers start advertising using Phorm's OIX spyware, we can create a hosts.txt file which will block all of their OIX adverts and possibly even their websites.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Better late than never

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I had an email from Leo Laporte today regarding the Security Now podcast, he seemed quite excited and has passed my details onto Steve Gibson.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thank you for taking the time to find out more about this issue and for posting here Baroness Miller. Quite apart from Phorm's invasive technology, I think many of us here were becoming frustrated with those in authority to whom we look to protect our civil liberties and it is rewarding to hear your assurances.

Welcome and once again, thank you.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/news/EkEuFlEpZFpkvyZWvm.html
"
25 June, 2008 - 9:04 AM
Phorm Responds to ISPreview's Alexander Hanff Interview
We recently interviewed the prominent anti-Phorm campaigner Alexander Hanff about his stance against the controversial advertising technology and its potential implementation by some UK ISPs.

Unsurprisingly Phorm disagrees with Hanff's views, calling them "inaccurate and misleading" and has regurgitated some of its usual PR in the form of a three point response.

Naturally we've added an additional (4th) page to the interview piece and readers wishing to see what the other side has to say can now do so here:

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/articles/08phorm
"

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...om_nebuad.html
"Charles Arthur
With Phorm in the wings, US ISP cancels ad-tracking system from NebuAd

While BT's next ad-serving trial with Phorm is nearly ready to start, Charter Comms in the US has suspended a deal with NebuAd, offering similar services
June 25, 2008 10:36 AM

"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I just read the 4th response page from Phorm re: Alex Hanff interview. It's the same old regurgitation of out of context quotes and misinformation. I really think Phorm PR are scraping the barrel if that's the best they can do. Are they stuck on a hamster wheel! Not only are their PR efforts monotonous they are becoming very boring. I suppose you can only squeeze so much juice out of a lemon!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: Welcome to Cable Forum, Baroness Miller :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:handshakeBaroness Sue Miller,

A BIG BIG THANK YOU!

Dave.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thank you for drawing my attention to this Mark hadn't said anything in the mods forum but he will konw I have seen it now when he comes online in the morning anyone wishing to add their views as amember of the public can do.
I have started a thjread to reply to Phorm since with articles there is no way to reply maybe we should all request the right to reply to phorm.
Sorry before this starts as this is going to be a long post.

posted http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/show...519#post203519

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes, and it's interesting that they are still trying the same old trick they've been trying for months with regards to Dr. Richard Clayton.

From Dr Clayton's own blog: http://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2...ebwise-system/

My bold.

In Dr. Clayton's own words, "Readers are left to draw their own conclusions".

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

DITTO
I was just about to post the same.

Take a single pro-comment and constantly regurgitate and milk it for all that it is worth.

Did Richard Clayton verify that Phorm’s targeted advertising and data-phishing system does not store any personally identifiable information? or is this another spin?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

well what does one expect from them the clam up wont saying anything when asked or avoid the questions with a question or misdirection.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Personally I feel that Dr Clayton should cite Phorm for misrepresentation.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

the Information Commissioner Richard Thomas has told the Ministry of Defence and the HM Revenue and Customs that if they don't get their act together

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7472814.stm

So data losses and information security should be taken seriously. Isn't that what we've been trying to tell him and his department for months?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

what this lot in power you kidding right, they have`nt a clue, and who voted for this lot. Yes we was a victim of that data loss.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I know that this is a big discussion about webwise, but when exactly are VM implementing it....?

Ben :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If Phorm had written Richard Clayton stated "...."

followed by the quote I think they could have got away with it, but by saying

In fact, academic Richard Clayton supports our privacy claims stating that: " ...." (Italics mine)

Could Dr Clayton challenge that comment and their interpretation as incorrect?

@Privacy Matters
Sorry made a cuppa in the middle of typing my post and you beat me to it. :-)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't know who xyzzy is but that was a well written comment on the Charles Arthur blog.

---------- Post added at 22:41 ---------- Previous post was at 22:40 ----------

Well spotted!. I certainly would! Using the word 'supports' would sugest that the quote has been taken out of context.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

We don't know if they are. They haven't said a dicky bird to their millions of customers. Can we have a statement of intent either way please Ben? ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

VM are sitting on the fence. They are waiting to see what happens to BT.

If it all goes wrong, they will take the moral high ground and say it's not suitable for their customers.

If it works (ho ho), they will want to pimp your data too.

Unfortunately, if phorm goes belly up, or BT withdraws first, it's going to be really difficult for them to claim that high ground. They will just look stupid.

And if BT and Phorm end up in court, you can bet VM will also be looked at up close, but that assumes HMG withdraws sponsorship of the project.

So to answer your question, i'm afraid you will have to wait and see, but don't forget to let VM know if you don't like the idea. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Totally agree.

I've posted a comment to Richard's blog pointing out to him that Phorm are still posting this one paragraph as his support for their system. Hopefuly he'll see that and maybe ask them himself to stop doing it.

Maybe one of you chaps might want to post a comment to Richard's blog mentioning it, too.

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Those losses, while careless, were supposedly accidental.

The use of Phorm spyware in 2006/7 was secret, illegal, deliberate, and intentional.

From that article;
So while prosecutions follow against careless civil servants for non-fraudulent error (presumably not the politicians responsible for leading the departments)...

So is the Information Commissioner saying we aren't entitled to expect commercial enterprises like BT to protect the personal information of their customers, or respect their right to privacy and security? Even when they break the law intentionally?

The man must go.

Richard Thomas, the door over there, with [EXIT] over it.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/07/25.gif

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Corporate verbigeration, such compulsive misrepresentation has gone a long way to making our case for us.

So here's to Phorm's PR lackeys; you've done a great job guys :beer:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well I guess I should have expected this sooner or later. Someone has added https://nodpi.org to Spam Cops spam lists because Entanet mentioned the protest with a link to the site in one of their partner newsletters.

I have been in communications with the party who filed the report and advised them to remove it. Apparently they don't want to receive Entanet newsletters any more so they feel the appropriate course of action is to pick one domain out of the entire newsletter and add it to a spam list as opposed to just unsubscribing from the newsletter.

If NoDPI.Org goes offline in the next 24 hours it is because we have not managed to resolve this issue. Our hosting provider take spam very seriously and have threatened to suspend our service should the issue not be dealt with within 24 hours.

Personally I think this wreaks of malicious intent, there is no way I can see a logical argument for reporting a single URL from a newsletter to a spam list as a valid or natural reaction to not wanting to receive the newsletter. One would expect the party to simply unsubscribe from said newsletter as opposed to taking offensive action against a single entity mentioned within the newsletter.

Needless to say the matter is being taken very seriously and Entanet have been contacted as well to help resolve the issue.

I apologise if there is any downtime.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I wonder who is most scared of you phorm or BT with the AGM coming up.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Deleted

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

So glad it wasn't Phorm, that would have been very malicious of them.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What do you mean by getting a conflict? No it definitely wasn't a glitch, it was a genuine report I am in communications with the organisation who filed it to try and resolve the matter amicably.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Do we know it wasn't them, even if it was Bt still the same.

---------- Post added at 23:29 ---------- Previous post was at 23:27 ----------

If they don't name and shame them since many people need this to protect their privacy and for an organisation to act in this malicous way is beneath contempt.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just send them an email offering to "enhance their privacy" and be sure to link bt.com, phorm.com, webwise and vm websites :)

That wasn't a joke BTW, Spamcop's URL block list is the joke.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alex, when you pointed out to your hosting provider that the matter is in hand you may also mention that there is a huge group of IT specialists that visit your site and they are not lovers of spam either. They often are on the lookout for good 'cheaper' hosting companies for their sites and also good Phorm-Free broadband providers.

Personally I don't think knocking your site off-line unreasonably so would be very good PR for them in the cut throat hosting business.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well obviously I am hoping it won't come to that, but I do stand behind the provider's stance on spam. I am glad to see they took the issue seriously despite the fact that it was a false report.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sorry Alex, deleted the post - just didn't see anything on the lists. Didn't consider that it would show at a later time (doh me lol).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I can confirm that I have been invited by Steve Gibson to participate in a 3rd podcast they are now going to do on the DPI for behavioural advertising issue (Phorm et al). The show is scheduled for Security Now #152 (week after next).

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That's excellent, Alex; Steve made it clear in his last podcast just what he thinks of Phorm. WTG. :)

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

if you wanted to try giving it a go Privacy_Matters,
(i have but im just not suited to programing or even simple scripting these days, i try and try but alas nothing)
i know it can be done , i understand the tech etc with Rebol View, but as i say im not suited for it...perhaps you, or another reader is!

perhaps use this as a fully working base scipt, and point your browsers at its proxy 8080 (or whatever you like)instead of the generic http 80 port.
http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap...script=proxy.r

http://musiclessonz.com/rebol_tutorial.html
http://www.rebol.com/view-platforms.html

http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=...&start=20&sa=N

someone might even make a nice cross platform rebol View GUI script for it with the NoDPI gfx included
http://www.rebol.net/plugin/tests/test.html

and just for fun ,heres a fully working Multicasting whiteboard script, if someone was real good thay could find the matching tunnel script and make a multicasting tunnel to distribute any and all hosts files globally to any DPI intercepted End users ;)

you need to keep the scripts intact OC, but convert the french to english text OC googlefish doent do that good a job on it, others might.
http://www.rebolfrance.info/org/arti...multicast.html

MultiCasting Encypted tunnels for everything and everyone, is one of my pet wants
one day perhaps i might see it happen.

first up MC video and Audio OC as that saves your upload bandwidth, one single stream to many people at once =less than half your VM upload bandwidth at say 250Kbit/s

---------- Post added at 01:06 ---------- Previous post was at 00:40 ----------

on a related note, iv been looking for the simple how to's, the protesters might use to produce and stream their Audio and video blogs etc...

iv not tryed these, but it seems a reasonable LiveCD to try at home before you get there...

http://dynebolic.org/index.php?show=features

the HasciiCam streaming looks like it could be good fun and somewhat anonymous too given the ascii output, i dont know if it can use webcams as its input, but i assume it might be fine in the linux liveCD and a generic V4L WebCam, it will be good for low bitrate uploading rates such as 2,2.5,and lower rated 3G if you can get it to work.

again the dyne:bolic liveCD is involved, but this page seems to give you the layout and a good description of the included ready to run AV server/client apps on it.

http://audiovideo.ngoinabox.org/?q=toolpage/52

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

A bit off topic perhaps, but ties in with other posts here regarding 'unusual' behaviour with VM connections.

I'm by no means a heavy net user, the 2 Mbps service does me just fine, and using the speed test link here, that's just about what i've always had.

For the past few days though, it's been around 0.4 Mbps consistently (just tested again).

STM? Probably. Another nail? Certainly.

If they can't afford to provide the service I pay for, they should put the price up and I will decide to stay or not.

And on top of this, they are chumming up with phorm. :(

It's only the thought of paying BT for a line that has stopped me binning VM months ago.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

well thats the catch, looks good don`t it on a adverts a whooping 50meg speed but stm kicks in and you never see them speeds cos you ether in work or in bed. - feel sorry for the console users laggy gaming cant host properly and it dont half eat into the limits, come summer when the kids are off school
:dozey:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

it seems most logical, the attempt at subverting the AntiDPI Protest, probably came directly from this very thread.

after all, the failing Phorm Advocates and investers are all reading every word you, and others here type Alexander, we do have the best and most informed and helpful thread the internet can offer in innovative idea's and help, hay, we even get house of lords posting ;) ,not to mention several House of Lords,representatives of the counties, cities, boroughs, and universities, forming the House of Commons etc reading the thread to stay informed, and welcome all, register and post away. :angel:

alas some Pro_phorm Investors/readers :dozey: might have got the idea from a comment here the other day and thought ,ohh i dont know why i didnt think of that...and off they went.

its a high possibility that the same IP that reported your site matches an Ip visiting this thread, (they wouldnt be that silly and inept would they?........).

is it going to need some court time i wonder, if thats the case, no point in being shy, big hefty damages, etc would be the order of the day,a few injunctions, a court ordered documents and computer files discovery or two if you/we were forced down that path, might as well make it informative and full of publicly available court documents to the wider world watching.

its not just a big players game anymore, the End Users are learning fast, thanks to the Bank charges forcing us to learn the law of the land (see CAG etc)and forced to bring court cases to get some form of action and justice, do the ISP's and the boardroom Executive etc think they are any more protected than the Banks are!, i wonder.

do the corporations really want to go up against the worlds web Techs in this battle, again i wonder if they have thought that through, word of mouth is a VERY powerful thing, and the british bulldog spirit might still be alive in all of us yet....if pushed to far.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

A very interesting post, sadly I will be one of them who is at the protest in spirit.

---------- Post added at 03:22 ---------- Previous post was at 03:04 ----------

:handshake Baroness Sue Miller,

A Big, Big Thank You!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Mark777,

It is not something which can be stopped, it is after all the raison d'etre of RSS Cookie Search and Feed. Organising it for Wealth to Flow rather be Spirited away and Banked is what all the Back Room Chatter/Underground Twitterings in Virtualisation are Ensuring?

The problem is at least two-fold in an Information Rich Environment [and it is anathema and a criminal affront to humanity to retain information and then to use it for selfish and political advantage]

1) Finding new Intelligent Source in the Flow Stream [and that too involves all those Spooky Agency types having a root around looking for gold nuggets and sparkling gems, which, if they have the necessary intelligence they will assimilate/accomodate/reinforce ... and if they don't, Private Enterprise will fill the Void and Provide all that they need too ..... thus creating a highly competitive Intelligence Environment for New Information Shared Freely and Spontaneously with the Web/Virtual Space. Whenever Privileged Information cannot be Guaranteed Safety/Secrecy in any Digital Network, Sharing it establishes Immediate Ownership and Any and All Rights with it.] and ....

2) Using any new Intelligence/Information. You can fully expect though that that is an opportunity which will be mentored by the Special Intelligence of the Cloud, which as can can Imagine must be Artificial, by Virtue of the Fact that it is necessary to Globally Interact with All Intelligence Systems.

Which really introduces and informs us that Artificial Intelligence Programs are also most likely to be Trialled and Streamed across the BroadBand Spectrum too with AIdDeeper Perspective to complement Higher Definition.

It also renders the Levers of Control to Virtualisation Pioneers. ... although it is an Open Field of Play with the Establishment well enough aware of their Plight, and the problem is Global/Universal ..... http://cryptome.org/dhs062508.htm

---------- Post added at 04:41 ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 ----------

... popper #10183

Not if they have any Sense. And John Bull is Alive and Well and Virtually Enabled.

AI Virgin Soldier, Sir Richard, in AI SurReal Game with White Knight Proxies in Virtual Reality ARGs. MultiCore Hyper-Visionary MMORPG aka the Great Game.

---------- Post added at 06:31 ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 ----------

And what you will have to consider and factor into the equation/the flip side of the Phishing Coin, is that BAIT* is very Probable, trawled in CyberSpace for Media Captcha/ Digital Content for AudioVisual BroadBandCast with the Internet Hosting Synchronisation/Temporal Disposition.

A Little Something of More than Just Passing Interest to C42Quantum Control Systems XXXXPloring the Creation in CyberSpace of the Commend to Control Computers and Communications.

AI Semantic Web of CyberIntelAIgent Peers Building urVirtual Networks.

*Blighty Advanced IntelAIgents Technology.

And if you haven't heard about any of that before, blame the existing Networks for not sharing it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

With each speed increase, the average speed at the busiest times of the day seem to go down. When I was on 2M and 3M or maybe it was 4M was the top speed you could pay for at the time, I got 2M 24/7. When the top speed leaped to 10M the fluctuations began and my speed immediately dropped to under 1M at busy times of the day even though mine had supposedly gone up to 4M at the same time. Phorm would introduce even greater performance hits as more and more lost packets of data are bounced around the system.

---------- Post added at 08:14 ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 ----------

Great news, Steve Gibson has a huge following and the publicity would be good.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I am getting a 404 from The Register anyone ells getting this? :erm:

[Edit]

It's Back up.

[Edit]

Spoke to soon it's gone again, what is going on? :erm:

C:\Documents and Settings\User>tracert www.theregister.co.uk
Tracing route to www.theregister.co.uk [212.100.234.54]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.***.*.*
2 10 ms 6 ms 8 ms 10.157.84.1
3 9 ms 7 ms 8 ms midd-t2cam1-a-v108.inet.ntl.com [213.106.238.45]
4 10 ms 7 ms 7 ms midd-t3core-1a-ge-019-0.inet.ntl.com [62.254.64.
185]
5 10 ms 19 ms 12 ms lee-bb-a-so-130-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.75.45]
6 15 ms 15 ms 15 ms bre-bb-b-so-200-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.175.26]
7 16 ms 17 ms 16 ms telc-ic-1-as0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.74]
8 17 ms 16 ms 16 ms linx.edge1.lon.rackspace.net [195.66.226.116]
9 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms vl901.core1.lon.rackspace.net [83.138.138.35]
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms 212.100.234.54

[Edit]

It's Back up.

C:\Documents and Settings\User>tracert www.theregister.co.uk
Tracing route to www.theregister.co.uk [212.100.234.54]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 2 ms 1 ms 192.***.*.*
2 9 ms 9 ms 7 ms 10.157.84.1
3 9 ms 20 ms 9 ms midd-t2cam1-a-v108.inet.ntl.com [213.106.238.45]
4 9 ms 7 ms 8 ms midd-t3core-1a-ge-019-0.inet.ntl.com [62.254.64.
185]
5 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms lee-bb-a-so-130-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.75.45]
6 15 ms 15 ms 15 ms bre-bb-b-so-200-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.175.26]
7 17 ms 17 ms 15 ms telc-ic-1-as0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.74]
8 177 ms 203 ms 206 ms linx.edge1.lon.rackspace.net [195.66.226.116]
9 17 ms 17 ms 16 ms vl901.core1.lon.rackspace.net [83.138.138.35]
10 19 ms 16 ms 17 ms g1-2.aggr1a.lon.rackspace.net [83.138.138.67]
11 18 ms 16 ms 28 ms 212.100.234.54
Trace complete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Amanfrommars has turned up..we now have an AI poster!

...and it's making more sense than hamsterwheel.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: aManfromMars - good to see you join the fray :)

It has to be said that you bend my head, but after re-literation occasionally a gleam of meaning is revealed.

I'm worried for my sanity :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I cant see it mentioned here before, but Phorms trial made last weeks (14 June 2008) edition of NewScientist.

Its only a small box of facts in the Technology Section.

"18.9 million. The number of web pages reportedly injected woth adverts tailored to UK users' habits in a covert trial of the Phorm ad-serving system"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I was lucky I had a link to half price line which helped was also the reason I moved back when I did, didn't want to mis the half price them VM say they were rolling out Phorm.

Every needs to worry about their sanity once phorm is on the system those connected via it will become brainwashed zombies :D

:welcome: aManfromMars

---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 ----------

With such a large amount bet most are american websites so not really relevent...

Just how much of the customers download bandwidth limit are the phorm adverts going to use?

Will the ISP limit the adverts to small none coloured or flash content which are more bandwidth greedy?

Will Phorm be given freedom to decide how much customers bandwidth they waste with these adverts?

What happens if the customer starts to block advert content?

I can go on :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not sure if anyone else has posted this .. but ..

It's worth pointing out here that BT are currently doing doing a special offer re. re-connecting your phone line for £29.99 instead of the normal £124.99!! ..

http://www.serviceview.bt.com/list/p...o/SNL21-08.pdf

Notice it's only till the end of June so get in quick if you want it .. also check the conditions ..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: amanfromMars

If so, would that make Hammy an NI poster?

In fairness to HamsterWheel, he did try his best to explain the issue relating to the Phorm shares. However, I think anyone with a dogmatic position that Phorm’s Webwise isn’t a problem, without wanting or being able to engage in the real technical and ethical concerns, is going to get a hard time here.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just received a wallet full of documents from ICO, too many to upload at present.

Summary of info is here

http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...topic.php?6937

There's some significant revelations. I'm still reading through it.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/07/25.gif

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

.... Phormic Acid #10193

Technical chicanery is such in the Digital Environment that nothing is Impossible which has led to the present impasse/stumbling block/ethical examination of what is now possible on an Instantaneous and Global Scale. ..... and All from just out of the Blue Cloud Hot Zones.

Or am I understating the Big Issue?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

More info from the ICO folder.

BT letter to the ICO. Includes much of interest.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

A hypethetical reason why ICO is doing nothing clue might have been mentioned on ISPreview in the reply from Phorm to Alex's interview.

I have made the important part in bold and italics I also quoted everything so noone from phorm could say I took it out of context an misquoted them which they are the best for doing.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi, On a side issue, BBC report on the future of the internet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7474889.stm

Dave.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not sure what that's specifically got to do with Phorm, given how complicated this thread is already perhaps you would have been better posting that somewhere else for discussion?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well this just gets worse and worse.

ICO simply took BT's word for it, no investigation, no further evidence, no analysis...

See here.

I'm just gob smacked.