Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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What were the dates? It would be interesting to correlate with other evidence. If you've got scans you're willing to share and upload of notes/screenshots/scans etc that might be valuable. If I were you I would also send the data to the EC (Ms Reding and Mr Colasanti) on the assumption that the EC are investigating already. Pete |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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The Overall evidence is on our side & it may take longer but in the end the evidence will speak for itself! |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
Enough, already. The sheer number of strawmen set up and demolished in this thread over the past couple of hours is nothing short of depressing, especially among a group of people who aspire to persuade the police, our legislators and anyone else who will listen of the rightness of their cause.
If any of you are in the mood to take advice - and on tonight's performance, I suspect many of you aren't, but here goes anyway - learn to read what's been said, and respond to the contents of it. Getting furious at someone simply because they are critical of your approach, or the approach of someone you respect, will ultimately get you nowhere and might actually cause you to lose the support of someone you need to have onside ... such as the esteemed Det. Sgt. Murray who, like it or not, is in charge of the Phorm complaint submitted by Alexander Hanff. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" is a well-known saying for good reason. Quote:
There is a coterie of hat3rz on this thread in the truest possible internet use of the term. Some of the responses I've had to my posts, in public and in private, are proof of that. There is little (or no) attempt to analyze and respond to the points I've made, whether critically or supportively (either would be nice, truly). There has simply been a tirade of objections that I dare open my mouth at all. Blindly thrashing out at someone for disagreeing with you, without engaging in any intellectual process at all, is what hat3rz do. But I think you already knew that. Quote:
Posting those conversations was extremely poor judgement on Alexander's part. I think his blog deserves the term 'grotty' because of this and I stand by it. Quote:
That, and I mean this sincerely, is pathetic. Quote:
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You think this was a bad night? I intend to point out such nonsense wherever I find it and challenge those who want to take the fight to Phorm to do so in a way that is likely to get them listened to, and not merely dismissed as a lunatic fringe. Frankly, on current evidence, I will be very surprised if DS Murray has not already cateorized Alexander in this way. I sit and await the inevitable flood of objections from those who can't tell the difference between trolling and honest, adult debate. Anyone with anything constructive to say, however, please, I'll be delighted to hear it, whether you agree with me or not. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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I wish you the best of luck though. I work in PR and you are doing yourselves a lot of damage in my opinion- hence i wanted to offer up an opinion. What you seem to not see is that I agree that the evidence is on your side. What you do not understand is that NO ONE cares- not in a real get the press kind of way- so be right and have it take longer. I really fear it will take a seriously long time given current strategy. i do hope i am wrong. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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As for the demo, it could have been better attended. But Phorm's counter demonstration wasn't well attended either, no one turned up to that one. During the AGM Mr. Livingston was unable to say the words 'Phorm' or 'Webwise' in his presentations to the shareholders. So we managed to help him out, helped him to get the topic aired in front of the Chairman, shareholders and press. I think he was very grateful for that, but didn't get a chance to say so. And many of the shareholders who were unaware came to talk to us afterwards, surprised and horrified that BT were doing this. If we hadn't been there, it would never have happened. But, whatever, I enjoyed it. And if there is going to be another demonstration, I will clear my diary again, and I will be there. I hope you'll join me, and share one of Madslug's excellent sandwiches, and a laugh at BT's expense. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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This battle won't be won by PR spin but by persistent telling of the truth, again and again, to the right people in the right places. Personally, if I had the Phorm showing me their "photo of the 3" alongside the campaigners alerting me to the articles that have been in the press and on the BBC Technology site about EU intervention, Congressional investigation,and the current list of unanswered questions from Lord Northesk and Baroness Miller, etc. I know which would impress me the most.But I am biassed! I'm in for the long haul. All participants welcome. Cool heads especially valued. I'm also aware that a few pages back we were reminded that it is "extremely bad Phorm" to discuss the goings on in other forums, so I shan't add to the discussion of the content of noDPI.org |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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That is a personal opinion by the way... |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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PR spin is not required, and adds no value. No spin is required to convey the truth. Certainly more press coverage would be welcome, but whenever the press have been approached they've been reluctant to cover this for reasons we can only speculate about. With the exception of Chris Williams at The Register, who deserves a nomination for a journalism award, after this sorry episode is over. No worry, and you say Rob, I'm in this for as long as it takes. Pete. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Speaking to you as a poster & not as a Moderator, who has managed to heat the other posters up the most this evening. Your points do have merits, but you should debate them in an ordered fashion or tempers are likely to flair in both directions. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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What do you suggest as the best way forward? For all the faults of this thread, I think it has always been open to debate various strategies. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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However, I stand by my only post of the evening, cool heads are (of late) absent in this thread. As before, this is a personal opinion... |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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PR is oly needed when you are trying to sell something (or trying to dupe people, or perhaps both). The truth doesn't need selling. It could do with publicising however, granted, but if it is to finally get though the legal system (with help from our european friends) then that would in itself generate news. The difference however is that the 'PR' therefore would be a product of the truth being found out, not the cause of. |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
So far what has been done and achieved has stopped the "soon" promised webwise trial from making an appearance once again but every week the brakes are going on the Phorm bandwaggon. I,m sure the police have got over this sort of thing before as the law is in the most part on their side.
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Yes, you're right, this is about continuing to progress with the facts about the key issues, via the relevant channels. That's why I have to "Go again" with our police, which may very well end in no further steps forward really (except educating them via forcing them to consider what their next move is, and they'll see what BT did is wrong, but that they still don't have the know-how or expertise to deal with it unfortunately) Then I CAN go to the next stage via the EU - there's a link somewhere on this forum to the complaint form LOL. Was it Pete who said this... I will probably be best getting the detail to those on the continent sooner rather than later, so that's two photocopies needed. DAISEY - Welcome on board... long journey ahead which might occasionally be diverted but we stay on course and when we get there it will be worth it, not just for us but for every internet user (except the dodgy advertiser middle man company!) Hank |
Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
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Agree with you re the cool heads to, I mean some people participating in this thread actually put phorm on a par with slavery and murder :dozey: |
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