Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Maybe we should all write to Liberty and see if they have any comments/concerns regarding this? Afterall, they are well known for their campaigns on human rights and privacy issues. What does anyone think?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

ROFL
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...grul/comments/
"
Lost - one PhormPRteam member

By colin stone
Posted Monday 10th March 2008 17:44 GMT
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/03/40.png We have recently lost a member of our PR team.

He was last see hanging about several message board and forums
It is though he was posting misleading information about our spywear products and services, although not a member of our company

If found please do not return as our share price has tanked and we hold him fully accountable
thank you
Phorm Managment."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Yes but that is all ifs, buts and maybes. And you could say that about any website that the government or whoever wanted information from. All I am asking is people stick to facts and not conjecture or in some cases pure make believe.

---------- Post added at 22:12 ---------- Previous post was at 22:00 ----------

As opposed to other ads I have no control over either. Did not say I was happy with it. Just that a lot of people appear to be making things up as they go along. Your child would only get adult adverts if they went to an adult site. Adequate parental controls would stop that anyway. Don't understand the first part of your second point. As for the second part If the system works as stated they cannot do that even if they wanted to

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Oh, no you don't.

The "what if"s are an essential part of evaluating any system. If you're suggesting that it's good practice to take the Phorm service simply at the word of its inventor, without subjecting it to any critical analysis at all - which should, no, must, include the setting of credible future scenarios, in order to establish whether the inventor has a/ forseen and b/ allowed for them - then please tell me who you work for, so I can make sure never to buy any of their products.

Six months ago, it was pure conjecture that someone might take 25 million child benefit records off their secure database, burn them to a CD and put them in the mail. I'm quite sure that HMRC would have sworn blind that our data was secure because there were processes in place, and talk of someone making a CD of the data would have been pooh-poohed as pure conjecture.

Yet, here we are.

---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------

Not true. A child could get adult adverts if any other user of the computer was a user of adult sites - assuming the computer only has a single login. And I, for one, am not reassured by Phorm's assertion, in their FAQs, that most people have separate logins, which would prevent that from happening.

Even if it is true, *most* is not the same as *all*. Phorm are knowingly exposing children to adverts for porn.

There, add that to your list of hysterical anti-phorm postings. It's a corker. ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Most ads online are not intrusive and can be blocked, except those that come via the Vundo trojan. The fact remains we do not need Phorm`s relevant ads, i`ll pick and choose what ads to view online, not Phorm or my ISP. As for the Webwise protection, again, i do not need their protection, i control what protective measures i put in place, not Phorm or my ISP.

I am not going to sit back and wait until its implemented and then start complaining, not with the history of Phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Jayceef1, didnt you read and understand the Phorm patent, its clear the profiler and related kit are far more able to track and abuse a users personal data than they are currently saying , you trust that they will not use all parts of these patents in their products for direct profit ?

perhaps your trusting that they are rather like the oil companys buying up patents that are never used for direct profit! :shocked:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

The Phorm ElReg interview states that porn (and gambling) are not one of the catagories (at the moment?). Being as Porn is one of the most profitable internet industries is that really going to remain over time. This system could target sites down to peoples tastes in porn (as long as there are over 5,000 of them).
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...gess_ertegrul/
I would think that medical and tobacco and gambling are probably the three most profitable parts of the internet.
All the interview highlights to me is that a system that can read all data on the isp is being created but we are nice people that have coded it in a way that means we won't look for bad things. Code changes over time, as do companies and peoples strategies and whats to say in time what was originally excluded becomes included, accidentially or intentionally?

---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:45 ----------As Chris said part of the understanding process.
Phorm becomes a man in the middle of the process. At the moment my internet traffic goes to my CM and gets sent to my ISP who read the headers on the packets of IP data and send it on it's way.
What this is proposing is to read the contents of those packets and those you get back.

To compare this to the postal system, this would be the same as the postman picking up your mail from your house (as he does in the US), instead of delivering it based on the address (headers) on the front, opening it and reading the contents and making a note that No. 27 has sent off a request for a brochure to a luxury car company (which could not be worked out from the PO Box address on the outside of the letter). Passing that information on so you also get information back from many other car companies. There are laws about opening mail and people get sent to jail for it.

To compare to the phone system. The phone network gets a header of information (a phone number) to route your call to the recipient. In Phorms world they will then listen to the conversation and based on that I guess call you with appropriately targeted telesales calls. Perhaps you were chatting to a friend about how bad your VM BB connection is, now you will get calls from Sky, BE, Demon etc. The payback is that if you misdial the number and someone else picks up and pretends to be who you were speaking to (reminds me of when I was a kid, my friend had a phone number similar to the local civic halls box office, we used to take ticket bookings all the time :) ), they will jump in and tell you you are not talking to the box office but some silly teenager.

Now I accept that my employer has a right to do this to protect their reputation and meet their regulatory requirements, however why does my home ISP, my home phone company, my home mailman.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The silence is deafening so far Anonymouse.

I do await the patronising replies with interest and a keen sense of anticipation :erm:

Interestingly, I couldn't login to my online bank tonight. After ringing them it seems my "security code" had been blocked because it had been tried incorrectly 3 times - not be me it hadn't. Not that I'm paranoid or anything... :D

Dave

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Agree that what if scenarios need to be done but that would be based on the facts of how the system works not on your guesstimate. The CD issue could have been picked up in a what if scenario because it could and did happen.

For the second the ads are targetted by the advertisers at related sites so would need to be in an adult related site to get an adult ad. Besides which adult sites along with gambling and tobacco are not in the categories being used so a pointless argument. Another piece of misinformation

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

thats 'not being currently used' remember those patent capabilitys they have coded their apps to do...

just like, for instance, VM at one time didnt use STM but now they do, the ability to alter the kit was always there....

in other news:
hmmm.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a8704dda-e...0779fd2ac.html
"
Phorm backed by internet providers

By Philip Stafford and Andrew Edgecliffe-Johnson
Published: March 10 2008 18:33 | Last updated: March 10 2008 18:33

The three large internet service providers backing a new service from Phorm have stood by the Aim-listed online advertising group in spite of fears over privacy issues sending its shares down 31 per cent.
...
The company has also met representatives of the Home Office and the European Commission, which is working on a new privacy directive, to seek their approval of the technology.

Virgin Media, the cable group, said it was still some way from deploying Webwise. “However we have full confidence that the system meets all applicable guidelines for privacy and protection of personal data.”

One ISP indicated it would undertake further due diligence on how the technology should be deployed, but attributed negativity around Phorm to “a small number of very vociferous people”.
...
"

small Number indeed, wonder what the combined page count is for all the comments, anyone now?

---------- Post added at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...ot_optout.html
"
TalkTalk to make Phorm use opt-in, not opt-out

One of the three big ISPs that has signed up to Phorm's web-tracking systems says that you'll have to choose to use it, not ask to be left out
March 10, 2008 4:37 PM


An email we've seen with the name of Charles Dunstone, head of Carphone Warehouse (and of course of TalkTalk) quotes him agreeing to the statement that "as far as TalkTalk is concerned, the Phorm system is never enabled until a user explictly decides to 'opt in'."

A PR for TalkTalk says that "It's certainly the case that Carphone has the policy that any of its customers who want to use Phorm have to positively opt-in.

Their belief is that customers should not get the service by default and that reception towards these type of services is always better if customers understand them and the benefit to them and want it - not if they found that, without their consent, data relating to their telecoms usage - however secure and anonymous - was being shared with others".
...
"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Good to see one company at least listening to customers fears, I can see I wil be arranging a BT line and moving to ADSL good job speed isnt important to me since I am a distance from the exchange.

Just would prefer slower speeds and my knowledge I am ot being spied on and force fed advewrts.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just a quick comment. A previous post on this thread said that this website is ad-supported. That was news to me! I didn't know this site has adverts as I don't see any ads at all due to my firefox plug-ins blocking all signs of adverts. No ads at all, ZERO, no pop ups, not even the ad holders or the empty spaces where these mythical ads are supposed to reside.

To be honest, I'm unsure about how many adverts one usually sees when surfing the web. I suppose (from what's been said here and by Phorm) it's a lot? I really don't understand why surfers put up with it. If everyone blocked ads then the likes of Phorm would be dead in the water before they even started - there would be no demand for their services!

Ali.

Note to Phorm: this post contains personal information about me. I specifically refuse to allow any Phorm software to scan or process this post.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well, the replies I got (from Barclays and Barclaycard) weren't patronising as such; they just missed the point of what I was saying to them. :erm:
That's odd - and a little worrying - because I couldn't log into Barclaycard for a while last night. I don't usually have any trouble with it.

Hmm. One begins to wonder...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Your looking forward to this i can tell. You must have been one of the users that voted YES please sell all my information to the root kit and spyware companies i don't mind.