[Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

This raises lots of questions but for all those applauding away in the knowledge than electricity is cheaper than petrol and diesel, where do we think the massive revenue lost from duty and VAT on fuel is going to come from?

How are all those people who live in streets where they can't park close to let alone outside their homes going to be able to charge their vehicles I wonder. How long's it going to take to develop the infrastructure required to support such a huge change?

Has anyone thought this through? :shrug:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Heres to hopeing electric cars can do 600miles per charge like my diesel lol

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I do think some of that is very valid - where I live there is no way I could currently have an electric only car as it's parked too far away from my property.

However to be optimistic on it, we've got another 23 years. It's possible by that point that battery technology will have improved to a point where you can still go 'fill up', rather than every car needing to be plugged in when not in use. Or we may have efficient wireless charging that allows for more flexible charging options.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1303...r-over-the-air

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

given the national grid teeters on the brink of not been able to cope with present demand what will happen when millions of cars are plugged in charging , remember petrol and diesel have huge amounts of energy stored in them and do not feed off the grid

How much energy in… Cars
kWh
1 litre Petrol 9.7
1 litre Diesel 10.7
1 litre Biodiesel 9.9
1 litre Kerosene 10.5

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

No problem at all we will have at least one new nuclear power working by then (perhaps) and anyway the other power stations will still? be running, and the entire country will be covered with wind turbines and solar panels.

One question I presume that power stations are more efficient than a car for generating power.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

http://euanmearns.com/how-much-more-...tric-vehicles/


The UK: A 36% increase in generation and a 49% increase in installed capacity, costing $140 billion.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Won't be a problem when loads of houses have solar, more wind on the grid, and local grid battery storage. This issue has been thought of and solutions exist, they're just not in place yet but are growing in popularity.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

It seems likely to me that by 2040 cars will have gone electric and major centers will have self-driving cars.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Yay! Can't come soon enough. In fact, we should ban all diesel and petrol engines in 5 years. Go electric! Go trams! Go Magdev! Go new BMW made in Britain mini! Go bikes!

We are winning :D!

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

go jump off a cliff ;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

"New" cars, not "old" cars, so when will they start the purge on existing petrol and diesel vehicles, i.e. taxing them more and more?

And diesel trains, just as they announce no electrification of certain routes?

And home gas boilers and gas cookers?

And gas powered power stations?

And vegan cyclists farting along the roads?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I hate bad losers :rofl:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

we could bring back the death penalty for cycling

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

We could remove the death penalty of pollution. Oh wait, we are! YAY!

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Again I think this will be a problem that largely takes care of itself. I would be surprised if, by 2030, there are still anything other than a small number of new cars being sold with petrol engines. I think that by 2040 not only will we have seen the end of petrol based engines in consumer cars but that the transition to electric cars on the roads will have largely taken place. You can then use the tax system to weed out the minority of bangers still chugging along - that's if a lack of petrol stations hasn't forced the issue for them already.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

yes the future looks bright

the moon base

colony on mars

warp drive

fusion power stations

world hunger up due to planet covered in solar panels

anyway must go i need to shovel some more coal into the stove ;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

We can't wait that long. The first announcement is for softening up purposes. We will go electric well before then. I'm thinking 2025 but really, the sooner the better. The car industry will be shifting its priorities apace.

It's all good news; ignore Papa Luddite :)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I do think 2040 is unambitious. To be honest I think it's a fudge that the government knows requires little effort on their part. Sort of like setting a news year resolution to eat more, gonna happen anyway.

I think 2025 is a good target to hit to be honest. Most car manufacturers are looking at electric engines. You could say new cars by 2025(ish) have to be electric but allowing 2nd hand cars. 2040 should be the target for the banning of petrol based cars from the roads entirely. Under the current goal someone could buy a petrol based car on December 31st 2039 and drive it for more than 10 years. (although as I said I think it's unlikely to be easy to find such a car by 2030s).

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Aside from the massive problems of having enough electricity to charge all these cars, what about the batteries ? To use a phrase, lithium does not grow on trees. Its doubtful there is enough to actually make (and keep replacing) all the required batteries.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

they'll just make batteries out of libtardium ;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

If you go back 23 years than most batteries weren't Lithium based as far as I know. I'd think most in electronic use were based on Nickel (Ni-Cd or Ni-MH).

So I hope we have a similar movement to a different battery technology that is sustainable.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

So we are basing out entire transport system on a hope ? :erm:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

We're basing it on that fact that if we continue with Petrol and Diesel then we're may literally be killing people.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

there's always notmuchofitaboutium - this all sounds like a bad episode of tomorrow's world

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Im actually at the point now of giving serious thought to trading in my rather thirsty (but much fun) V10 for a Tesla model S

Plenty of charging points nr where i work and a charging point in my house (which the previous owner had fitted free by the government)

My petrolhead fix is still met by the bikes

---------- Post added at 13:30 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------


You could argue that the world is already over populated....

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

We're pretty much completely reliant on the internet and related technologies for our society to work. That wasn't the case 23 years ago. And that's happened without any plan.

So I don't see if being a problem to specifically state an aim to move away from a technology in quite a long timeframe.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

... and refill it in 2 mins as opposed to many hours during which your car is useless. That's great in an emergency isn't it but maybe HMG is going to ban emergencies in 2035... :rolleyes:

There's not much pleasure left in driving these days and having to worry about running out of juice only detracts further from what little is left.

I might consider buying a hybrid vehicle at some point but can't foresee a time when I'd want to rely purely on battery power.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

there ok for a shopping car as long as you have a charging point at home but if you come to cleethorpes bring a generator with you we have 2 charging points and they don't work ;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

No doubt generators will be outlawed too.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

if this is about clean air then what about flying ? aviation fuel is way too cheap and only encourages excessive flying and as a result more pollution .

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

It's not like this is a irrevocable policy.

But it's sensible to plan ahead on the assumption that, in 23 years time, battery technology will be better than it is now. And the technology we have now can power sports cars. It's already feasible to own and operate electric cars in the UK. It will get even better, especially if the government is throwing it's weight behind it.

We need better batteries and faster charging but Tesla have made a lot of progress in only 5 years here and we've given ourselves a timeline of 23 years. What's more is that it's the direction the industry is moving with more and more manufacturers moving their models to electric engines.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

A wing and a prayer if you ask me.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:37 ----------

Yes one would certainly learn that glorious trait from your good self.;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

So when are they planning to start putting in the vast amount of infrastructure that'll be required to support street charging and how long's that going to take nationally? There's a great deal of difference between a very small number of people using electric vehicles (many of them whilst also owning traditionally fuelled cars) for short runs and having to rely totally on these vehicles and being able to charge them quickly and conveniently. I wouldn't want to be trapped for hours on a snowy motorway somewhere watching my electric car heater rapidly use what's left of my battery's charge as the temperature plummets...

God forbid we have any power cuts and can't charge our vehicles eh?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Well said Damien. The motor industry will plough £tens of millions into the development of battery power if another technology hasn't succeeded it by then (it may have already for all we know).

You owe it to yourself to remove your 'Remoaner' title. You are forward-thinking and positive and not trapped in the past.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I find it all very confusing! Notability told us to get a diesel instead of petrol. Not sure if it makes that much difference now though.

I did look at the Nissan Leaf when I got my car but the range was crap.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

If you let in well over a million people what do you think is going to happen with pollution and everything else.:rolleyes: Then there is the added pollution of shipping their own specific food items into the country. We've imported pollution from eastern Europe.

Even if say the UK manages, the development of petrol/diesel cars & vans will effectively be killed off fairly soon, so how are other countries going to manage? Is the EU going to prop them up over that as well?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Most motorway services already have some electric charging points, and it's already been announced that all Petrol stations and remaining Motorway services will need to have them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40352884

And there are some predictions around how many EV points we'll have:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...020-say-nissan



---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

France have already announced they're banning them by 2040

https://www.theguardian.com/business...l-macron-volvo

So I'd expect most other EU countries to follow.

Volvo have already announced they're going electric only, and they're owned by the Chinese, so China is also moving in that direction.

---------- Post added at 15:24 ---------- Previous post was at 15:09 ----------

Oh and I've just seen this - Autoexpress reckon it won't include a ban on hybrids

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...-ban-from-2040

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Slowly over time. Tesla have some stations in the UK already: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus#/...er&name=Europe And in some car parks there are ones not provided by Tesla (which outnumber Telsa whose presence is rather small).

But as more and more cars move to electric engines we'll see more stations pop-up. Petrol stations could provide them. It will at some stage hit a tipping point where they're suddenly springing up everywhere. We got 3G and 4G networks up in 16 years.

Yes at the moment having to 'rely totally' on them isn't realistic but we're not talking about banning petrol cars tomorrow, we're talking about banning them in 23 years.

That would be annoying but no reason to stop this progression. It's not if there are not problems with petrol with the pollution and the inflexibility as to it's source and provisioning. We already put critical dependencies on systems that require electricity so it's not an unheard of problem.

Can petrol stations actually work with no electricity now? Isn't it required for the tracking of the dispensing of the fuel and the payment of it?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Is everybody near a motorway service station? Just think of how many vehicles are used in a day and that is how many will have to be recharged each day. Imagine the queues.

Maybe alright for France with its Nuclear power, but how are countries like Estonia, Latvia, Romania etc going to manage.

That rules out even hybrid cars.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

You would build more.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Estonia:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...arging-network

Latvia:

http://eng.lsm.lv/article/economy/ec...-plan.a153355/

Romania:

https://www.romania-insider.com/char...100000-people/

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

How are charging points at motorway service stations (and garages) going to help.

Filling up with petrol takes a few minutes, recharging a car takes hours.
At busy times you can barely find anywhere to park in a service station, how will they cope with 1000's per day.

How will local garages work, a few early starters and thats it for the day ?

(not to mention how long journeys would become).

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Well electric cars would work differently. It's important with new technology not to apply existing patterns to them, at least not always.

At the moment people generally only fill up their car at petrol stations. You fill up, then go away keeping the occasional eye on the tank until you need to fill up again. But electric cars can be charged at home and also could be charged at car parks, work places, shopping centres etc. I have seen far more car chargers in car parks than dedicated stations. People will find themselves charging at home, at a hotel, or in car parks whilst shopping or working. Stations would be for quick top-ups or people taking long journeys.

But battery technology will get better and so will charing times. Again, look at the progress Tesla have made. It's not perfect now but do we need to wait until it is before we make plans 20 years ahead? The wheels are already turning here, more and more cars are coming out with electric engines, the investment is in electric and self-driving cars and that's where governments are looking too.

To be honest I think 2040 is conservative. I think we'll be seeing electric, self-driving, cars in common use around urban areas by then. 23 years is a long time in technology. Imagine in 1994 telling someone that people could stream TV content made exclusively for an Internet company to a phone they had in their hands. Think of all the logistical and technological, not to mention commercial, barriers that would have been foreseen. The advances is mobile technology, battery technology, networks and so on for that and all the infrastructure to go with it.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

What the future holds:

1. Aircraft (the biggest polluters what about their fuel supply) as passenger airliners would be out of question. Giant Airships could be used I suppose.

http://company.airbus.com/responsibi...-aircraft.html

2. Lorries.

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/bmw-4...electric-truck

3. Motorcycles (new ones can be made to be electric) but not the old classic bikes and cars for that matter.

http://charged.io/best-electric-motorcycles/

Then again we will have install solar panels on every house and our own mini wind turbine in the garden (if you have one) to produce electricity.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

62 miles) on a full battery and can be fully charged in three to four hours.

so lands end to john o'groats how many days will that take

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

l am sure Kursk will come out with some sort of one eyed response by the end of the night.;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Go Damien! You are rocking with this :). An item on the news mentioned charging points installed on lamposts. It is going to happen. It is happening. We can be ahead of the game on this if everyone gets into the right mindset.

And perhaps the answer is that you will collect fully-charged batteries along the way rather than charging the one you have? Think Old chap, think. Or maybe a lorry will carry more fully-charged batteries with them? Doh.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

and once we go electric first class post will be about 10 days depending on queues at the plug socket :rofl:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

You better tell that to your favourite poster as they are getting rather rose tinted as usual.;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I was referring to power cuts affecting those who're at home trying to charge their vehicles overnight which is I'm sure what most people would want to do if they couldn't do it at work.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Well then yes an overnight power cut would be a problem if they didn't have any charge left in the car but it doesn't seem a deal breaker. You can get an unfortunate series of events with many things, a power cut that lasts overnight when you really needed to charge the car would be one of them.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

So before you set out on a journey in your eleccymobile you need to know you have enough juice to make it or factor in detours and a lot of hanging around before and that includes considering whether to put the aircon or heating on. Is that progress? We don't know what progress is going to be made or how much these things are going to cost but does anyone really believe they're going to be better and no more expensive than the vehicles they're replacing? I don't. I recall being told diesel was a great and now I'm being penalised for what the so called experts led us to believe. I have every expectation that the same thing will happen again and that the rush to electric will wind up costing a whole lot more than we imagine.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Owners could retain a fully-charged back up battery for such an emegency.

You're (understandably) focussing on the expense; the reason for the change is to reduce pollution and save lives.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Battery Specs
Type Laminated lithium-ion battery
Voltage 403.2V [1]
Nominal voltage 360V [2]
Total capacity 24 kWh [2] (16 kWh available, 67% DoD [3], 21 kWh declared [4])
Power output Over 90 kW
Energy density 140 Wh/kg [5]
Power density 2.5 kW/kg [5]
Dimensions 61.8 x 46.8 x 10.4 in. (1570.5 x 1188 x 264.9 mm) [1]
Weight 648 lbs [6]
Number of modules 48, each with four cells (total 192 cells) [7][2]
Battery pack contents:
Positive electrodes: lithium manganate
Negative electrodes: carbon
Cells
Modules
Assembly parts
Charging times:
Quick charger DC50kW (0 to 80%): approx. 30 min (Level 3 charging)
Home-use AC240V charging dock (0-100%): 8 hrs (Level 2 charging) [8]
Regular 110/120V 15-amp outlet: 22 hours (Level 1 charging) [9]
Battery layout Under seat & floor

oh yes very practical lugging 648 lbs of lithium battery around

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Personally I think self-driving cars will take a good bulk of general driving tasks by 2040 but that's a different debate.

Are electric cars progress? I think so. I think for the most part they'll match fuel cars in every aspect but the speed of refuelling but that will be negated by the ability to charge in far more places whilst the car is parked and better battery technology. I think by 2025-2030 they'll be able to recharge hundreds of miles worth of electricity in a few minutes.

I don't think they'll cost more/less than current cars. They'll come down in price when they're more common but the market will dictate the price and probably come down around the same as now plus inflation.

But they'll beat fuel cars on being better for the environment and they'll allow more flexible energy policy as we wouldn't need to depend on oil specifically. Obviously that depends how we generate the electricity which is the bigger question here. We need to start building another nuclear power plant or two. From my understanding there is also less that can go wrong with an electric engine than a petrol one, no oil changes, less parts to break and so on.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I'm confident a focussed motor industry will improve current spec and performance. Remember when a basic computer filled a room? Now it's in your pocket. Wasn't that long ago.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I'd call 60 years quite long ago as far as people are concerned.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Still the modern iPhone is orders of magnitude faster than a bulky pc tower from 1994. And we're already building electric cars from little city runners such as the Nissan Leaf to sports cars from Tesla. Volvo are looking to make their line electric by 2020. Most other companies are looking to at least bring electric engines in their popular cars (Fiesta, Peugeot 208, BMW Mini etc) by 2020 too. The Golf already has done this.

We're well on the way already. Think what it could be like in 20 years after two decades of full time commitment from car and technology companies!

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Indeed. In computing, drip feeding gives the impression of slower development (maximising profit being the holy grail).

Electric automotive development is about to move in strides, we can be sure of that.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

To keep it on topic can I suggest he cycle of one instead

Me to, can't wait till we're all zero emitters and therefore all have to pay to use the road, the whining then will be joyous and may even make up for the lack of enjoyment driving will become or has already become I should say.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Advances in computing and electronic devices are very different, in that they don't have to do much physical work. Where physical work was involved, advances meant less physical work was required to achieve the same result, eg HDDs vs SSDs.

Propelling a vehicle for 100 miles with a family, coping with difficult terrain eg hills, difficult weather conditions eg snow, and possibly towing a caravan requires physical work, no matter what the propulsion system. There is absolutely no way around that. The amount of energy required to be transferred and stored in a battery is huge. The nearest thing would be a battery you could top up with pre-charged liquid. Not sure how safe that liquid would be to handle. It would be more "volatile" than petrol.

The energy in petrol was locked in millions of years ago. Having to "generate" that amount of energy each day and having to distribute it down power lines is pretty much a non-starter. Then you've got to replace current gas usage.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Again though it's not as if we're talking about a hypothetical technology where. Electric engines power sports cars right now. Tesla may be at the cutting edge of electric car technology now but in a decade it will seem primitive to what we'll have then.

There seems to be a belief in this debate that it'll never catch on and/or the hurdles are too great for it but that seems to be missing the fact that it's already happening. Volvo will be electric only in just a few years.

The only real hassle I see to a country full of electric cars is generating the energy to do so. But that is a sink or swim moment for the country anyway, we've needed to address this problem for over a decade and so we need more power plants and more renewable energy. Solar panels continue to get more and more efficient in terms of energy generated per panel. We're building one nuclear power plant, let's have more.

The country has to stop saying 'No' to everything and acting as if we're a dying horrible nation in a state of managed decline. We need to address the issue of pollution and we need to address power supply.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

i hope these nuclear power plants are going in your backyard not mine , and who's this we you keep banging on about from where i'm sitting it's you i'm totally against nuclear it's dangerous .

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

You name something that isn't dangerous. Its all a matter of proportion. How do weigh up all those killed on the roads or by pollution compared with the nuclear accidents.

We have few electric cars round here and I have noticed that they are completely silent so that should put up the accident rate.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

We as a country. It's got to be something other than a shine for the 1970s which it seems some would rather it be.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Vote Damien!:cleader:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

and what do we do with all the radioactive waste that is produced , i read yesterday that air pollution is lowering life expectancy by about 3.5 minutes

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

The Council will issue special skull and crossbones plastic bags for us to dispose of the waste safely whereafter it will be piled up on the moon. Voila! :monkey:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

So, you have an electric car and a driveway or garage with a power socket so you can recharge the car when not in use.

But what if you don't have a driveway? What if you have to hunt around the area every time you want to park at a kerbside? Will the streets of the country be lined with charging sockets? Or will pavements be strewn with leads from kerbs to gardens or houses?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

or use it as filler for cycle paths ;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

There are no cycle paths on the moon. Nor air.

The chargers will be installed in/on lamposts amongst other places.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

no no no Taf let's not put any thought into this :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 11:14 ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 ----------

theres 93 houses in my street and 8 lampposts - good news for me lamppost outside my house but i guess i'll have to fight for it ,and stay up all night watching it incase someone unplugs my tossla and plugs theirs in .

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Crikey, the dogs have it tough in your street.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

it brings a whole new meaning to Walkies ;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

In London we're seeing more of these:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/07/9.jpg

I think we'll see cars with longer range and quicker charging times though so a charge in another car park will suffice for many. Although again I wonder if self-driving cars will reduce the amount of cars everywhere anyway.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

i see a business opportunity here i buy a smelly old diesel truck with a big smelly diesel generator on the back and go around charging up these green machines i mean no one cares where the power comes from as long as it's in the tossler .:shrug:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

A cyclist-powered generator on call to any location? 24/7? Just call and they cycle up and pump out pedal-generated electricity whilst wearing lycra and pretending they are competing in the Tour de France?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Oops, I think you just inadvertently "outed" yourself there Taf ;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

As others have states what ever powers new cars have to be as "friendly" to use as fuel in the "infernal combustion engine" (Harry Harrison).
1)Full "charge" in minutes in many places and fuel to remain good for a long while (no greater "leakage")
2)Range measures in many hundreds of km's
3)Reasonably compact - no good having all your storage taken up by "fuel".
4)Vehicle to perform similarly to current - sporty, pulling, handling, space, off road (whatever you use/choose in your car).
5)Easy to carry extra fuel - long distance/remote driving e.g. safari, exploration

I'm not limiting to electric/battery as some other technology may present itself.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Who is going to pay to rewire all our street lights ? and how will you be charged for using it ? or do you think councils will allow us to recharge for free ?

Why would self driving cars reduce the number ?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Buses use a great deal of energy with all the stopping and starting. Yet already there are experimental routes operating with electrically powered buses. I understand that while at the terminus for 5 minutes they pick up a booster charge from something hidden under the tarmac (nothing to plug in)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

We can only guess at what improvements to battery/charging technology and the cost thereof which may occur between now and whenever this happens but I think I can safely predict that our glorious leaders, the great and the good and their mates won't find themselves regularly in need of convenient charging facilities. Us mere taxpayers, on the other hand, will likely find ourselves scrabbling around trying to find communal charge points which a free and working when we actually need them. Will these be easy to find and cheap to use I wonder?... :rolleyes:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

I am sure some enterprising people will see the chance for meet a commercial need. How did so much of the country get 3/4G so quickly?

Because it seems that the most logical way forward for self-driving cars will be as a taxi service. At the moment you drive you car, park it for x hours, then drive it again. So many cars spend the majority of their time idle. If that car was going around doing rides for many other people then you couldn't need so many cars or have them take up so much space. It would be far more cost effective.

A lot of the companies investing in self-driving cars are doing it for that. Uber's long term goal is to replace their human drivers with self-driving cars, the reason they're intentionally losing money to undercut other taxi services is to ensure they're dominate in the market when it happens. Google too have said this is their motivation for exploring self-driving cars. They've pointed how much land is wasted storing immobile cars.

You would 'call' a car via a smartphone/speaker/watch/whatever which will take you to the location before shooting off to do another job. It would be far cheaper than a normal taxi because you've cut out the human element and can do it at scale.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Inductive charging.


Cheers


Dave

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Because that doesn't require every home to have a mast outside into which they can plug their phone maybe?

;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Credit card or maybe each car will have a chip identifier and you will get billed monthly? Like when you buy petrol or diesel...

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Maybe because upgrading a few cell towers is not quite in the same league as upgrading every lamppost.

---------- Post added at 13:49 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

Who exactly gets billed monthly for petrol/deisel ? I have to pay on the day.

Its pretty easy to charge for petrol/deisel, since its at a garage, monitored, and machines (pump or till) connected to the banks. Again, not the same as every lamppost.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

it's not just lampposts it's the cable that feed them the substations that provide the power etc.. in short the whole infrastructure would need upgrading to cope with the extra load so digging up every street .

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

We're talking many amperes per hour for cars, not milliamperes for phones. The magnet field would he lethal to anyone with a pacemaker. Hmmm and passing cyclists and prams would get dragged onto the road....

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

You pay for petrol/diesel each month; the concept is the same.

Ford have been developing "wi fi" charging btw; apparently, induction charging as mentioned by Dave (GrimUpNorth) has been in use in S Korea for years.

It's the future.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Yeah, that's going to be really cheap and easy to install and maintain properly isn't it. lol

It's perfectly obvious that this thing hasn't been thought through and who's going to wind up paying the bill one way or the other? Cheap electric cars and transport for the masses? Yeah right!

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Considering that most commuters (who use cars) travel between 10 and 100 miles per day, why not just charge them at home at night?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

But how do you do that if you live in a flat or a terraced house for example with no parking close enough to allow it? Yes, it's not difficult if you have off road parking close to your house but there's precious little of that in London.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

According to THIShttps://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/06/electric-buses-london/ 36 electric buses going into service in London next year will run all day on an overnight charge.

Some existing routes boost the charge wirelessly at the terminus from apparatus under the tarmac. Presumably car parks and even roads where cars park could be so equipped. Perhaps people could pre pay a meter in their vehicle by credit card.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

All possible no doubt but how much is all that going to cost and how long would it take? ££££££££'s

Local councils can't even keep up with repairing potholes let alone relaying entire roads nationwide with the necessary gubbins and what happens when utilities guy wants to dig up the road?

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Well they have 20+ years to do it. Car manufacturers are moving to electric engines so either we get with it or we thrown up our hands and say it can't be done.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

So no chance for me then with my ICD.;)

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

Not sure if it has been mentioned but, imagine the fun the toerags will have pulling all the plugs from cars late at night if you have to plug them into lamposts by cable to charge for the people who do not have garages and drive ins.Walk out in the morning dead battery!.

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

but we've got 20 years to change the toerags into angels :angel:

Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 

A link has already been posted on induction charging which exists now. There's plenty of time to develop. The motor industry will be beavering away.

Ahhh, every cloud....:D